Hunting

[Lindsey 0]

This is my 13 y/o son's third season to deer hunt. He got a really nice 8-point a couple weekends ago. Last year, I took the Hunter's Safety course with him and his friend Reuben (though I have NEVER been a hunter or knew anything about hunting or guns...you take on your children's interests). I've been in the deer stand LOTS of mornings and evenings with Jay since then. He's a good, safe hunter I think. Today I let him go out alone with his friend, Reuben. They're going again in the morning. Ya' gotta let 'em off your leash at some point. Can't raise 'em in a bubble. This will be different.

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[wmw999 2,121]

You're right.
To me, one of the best things you can give your children is the freedom to try things. Like bicycling alone, hunting, wandering around -- a world they can discover and decide about on their own.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skyrider 0]

Good on ya, plus you have raised a child you feel you can trust..."Priceless"!

[kawisixer01 0]

What I find interesting is that you haven't ever hunted. That is just unusual for an interest in something like hunting to get sparked by kid if his dad or mom don't pass it down. Hunting is a pretty big thing here in Wisconsin just beacause it can be a big family affair. How did your boy get interested?

[Lindsey 0]

We live in a small town in south Arkansas. EVERYBODY here hunts, though nobody in my family ever did...lol. His grandmother (my step mom) is who taught him to shoot, and he's NEVER missed a deer that he's taken a shot at. He's headed out the door right now, btw...headed back to his stand...wait, I'm making him charge his phone for 15 minutes first...lol. And we have deer spaghetti on the stove! :)

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[LongWayToFall 0]

Good for you! I only started hunting a year or so ago, but it has been lots of fun, and given me more respect for animals. Being mature enough to kill an animal and take the meat from it for sustenance is a great thing for your kid.

[skyrider 0]

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Good for you! I only started hunting a year or so ago, but it has been lots of fun, and given me more respect for animals. Being mature enough to kill an animal and take the meat from it for sustenance is a great thing for your kid.

"Fun"?

I have hunted most my life, (until I could afford to buy meat) only when I was very young, (under 8 or 9) did I think it was "fun".....

I enjoy the fact, I hit what I shoot at, and kill it, but do not see that as "fun"...

What is fun about it? I'm curious? the skinning? the out smarting a dumb animal by being able to figure out it's trail? Some times having to finish it off with a knife? Watching an animal die?

Keep in mind, I am Pro hunting....But"fun"?

[Lindsey 0]

I'm pretty sure, from watching him, that Jay thinks it's fun to kill a big buck. Now a doe...that's good meat, and he'll watch them all day long if we're not needing any.

I never thought I'd have animal heads in my house, but I do. It's one of Jay's things, and that's fine. I like seeing his golf clubs more (because he's REALLY good at that), but whatever his interest, I'll try to help him out. He's his own person, and I'm proud of him.

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rehmwa 2]

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Keep in mind, I am Pro hunting....But"fun"?

Good post. Hunting is harvesting, not recreation, if one is really pure about it. But, then again, some people find going to a restaurant or a grocery store to be 'fun'.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyrider 0]

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Keep in mind, I am Pro hunting....But"fun"?

Good post. Hunting is harvesting, not recreation, if one is really pure about it. But, then again, some people find going to a restaurant or a grocery store to be 'fun'.

good point...I just misinterupted!

[Coreece 190]

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Keep in mind, I am Pro hunting....But"fun"?

bravo....bravo!!!

It sickens me...gutting it...cutting the balls off...slicing it from the asshole up the gut...I'm done.

I had to go to the shed the other night to get a battery charger...i waited 5 mins preparing myself for what I was about see once I opened the doors...2 dead beautiful animals hanging upside down...one with a bullet in its skull that ended the initial suffering....I smelled the errie death...

I'll be honest...I've hunted b4 but never got anything...thanks be to God...I doubt I could ever pull the trigger....I thought maybe just squirrel hunting would be fun...but everyday I go out to smoke a cigar and I see the same 4 squirrel family playing and scavanging for acorns or fending off intruders....I get more joy watching them play and survive rather then killing and eating them...

I thought I was gonna be all gung ho this year for hunting, but when it came time...I just couldn't do it...

but there are plenty of normal men in my family that can do the job...hence the 2 deer in the shed...

I guess I'm just a pussy, but then I don't really give a shit...I am who I am!

Have you ever communcated with a wild animal?

Have you ever felt the harmony...no fear between?

has a wild animal ever fed from your hand...It is amazing...

I have experienced it and to betray that gift would be devastating to me...but I still understand...hunting is very important...Its just not for me...

I have killed a sparrow once...had to crush it's head with my foot to end the suffering I caused with a bb gun...it devastated me.

I once injured a pigeon in it's right wing with a bb gun....it tried to fly away but it just flew in circles and landed in a neighbors yard...it probably died...how can a pigeon live without it's wing?

I also shot a frog in it's leg with a bb gun...I felt really bad afterwards, but was happy to see that he survived...the next day the frog was dead...how can a frog survive without it's leg?

[Meso 38]

I don't think it's thanks to God that you can't pull the trigger though, considering I find hunting absolutely disgusting. And people's apathy towards it even more so.

I eat meat, I feel guilty about it though. And I'd think anyone with a mind would feel guilty about eating meat. Who cares how 'normal' or 'natural' it is. You can use the argument that 'it's primal, it's nature... animals hunt, we're animals too, we hunt'. But it's a pathetic argument to try make it seem more civilized or rational.

Animals fight and kill each other too, same species. Yet no one is trying to pass off human murder as 'natural'.

It all comes down to people thinking that because they can't understand something that it's less worthy than themselves. Mostly they either pretend that animals don't feel pain the same as we do, or that they lack emotions such as empathy, again which would be incorrect.

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I once injured a pigeon in it's right wing with a bb gun....it tried to fly away but it just flew in circles and landed in a neighbors yard...it probably died...how can a pigeon live without it's wing?

As a child I did the same thing, and I want to go back in time and smash myself in the face with a brick for being such an idiot. And why did I do it? Because I was ignorant to the aspects of what animals can experience, and not thinking about it, just acting on impulse.

Now I can understand the need to hunt in certain situations, when it comes to life or death. But for the most part is definitely isn't used that way by majority... It's more of a "Hey son, let's go out and end some animals life.", "Yeah dad gosh, that'd be swell."... 'Oh and while we're there we can bring back the meat too'.

It just baffles me how people can not give a fuck about ending another creatures life, a creature that has family and creatures that actually go through mourning. How can you just ignore it?

The idea that hunting is in any way fun is quite disgusting to put it mildly. What if an animal kills your child? That's natural right? I suppose it would just be great fun too! Oh you know, give it a day or two, you'll move on and live. Or is it only when an animals child gets killed that it's natural and unworthy of sympathy?

I'm well aware that for me to get the meat on my table there have to be people out there who do such things, but that doesn't mean I don't see them as disturbed individuals. And if them stopping meant no meat on my plate, cool story- works for me too.

Sport hunting on the other hand, I see absolutely no logic in AT ALL. It is the lowest of lows in human society, lower than most murderers. Usually when a murderer commits a murder he has motive and the person at the receiving end is guilty of doing something. With animals it's just murdering complete innocence. And for what? So you can see who is more manly? It allows me to see what should really be hunted. Because there's nothing as sporting as taking somethings life- complete and utter wastes of oxygen are sport hunters.

So just to finish, if you're going to say that hunting okay because it is our natural primitive instinct and animals do it. Then don't you dare complain or have sympathy for any human murders, because murder is natural too. Just because something is present and was present in primitive existence doesn't mean it warrants complete lack of emotions and lack of logical thought.

As you can see, I hate hunting.

[doughboyshred 0]

sorry, but that doesn't fly.

You do hunt.

You do it by paying someone to kill your animals for you.

Your opinion on hunting is irrelevant because you eat meat. If you were a vegetarian, it would be a different story.

FWIW, I pretty much agree with you, but at least I admit I am a hypocrite.

You do realize that pigs have families, and are smart, and can feel pain right?

But, damn bacon sure does taste good.

[Meso 38]

Your post makes absolutely no sense.

How do facts change because I eat meat, this isn't about me in any way. Should I get some of my vegan friends to come here and re-post what I said for it to be fact? Or maybe if I just say I'm going vegetarian right now, then will the post be relevant?

Paying someone to hunt doesn't make you a hunter, it may mean you're no better than he is but it takes a whole different personality to be able to kill an animal while looking at it, as opposed to taking some meat out of the fridge.

Where did I say I'm not a hypocrite? I totally am...

But as I stated, this isn't as much a conversation about eating meat vs not eating meat as it is about being able to kill an animal and try to justify it with flawed theories.

[metalslug 31]

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...it takes a whole different personality to be able to kill an animal while looking at it, as opposed to taking some meat out of the fridge.

Could you do it if there was no meat and no fridge?
I feel much the same way that you do about sport hunting and I don't think I could harm an animal in my current lifestyle, but I also think one's level of hunger or desperation could be a factor here. Priority. If my survival (or my child's survival) in a wilderness depended on how I use a hunting knife, I would make every effort to do what needed to be done, no matter how messy it needed to be. I think a lot of animal lovers would.

[Meso 38]

Yeah in my previous post I touched on that a bit. I can understand the idea of hunting in cases of survival like in emergencies. I can also understand if one is struggling financially as then it is more of an issue of doing what needs to be done.

Though I do propose a hypothetical question: If one is struggling to survive, and there are a handful of other humans around, is it more morally wrong to kill them and feed off their meat than an animal, and if yes- howcome? Intelligence shouldn't dictate worth, or by that logic mentally handicapped people are less worthy to live too.

My main problem is the attitude behind it, where it's looked at as more of a 'fun day out', even in the cases of hunting for food (in non emergency situations).

The way they pose next to the dead animal for a nice photo, as if to say "look, I managed to kill a helpless animal, watch my ego skyrocket".

And you also being from South Africa, I'm sure you're well aware that that is the prominent attitude usually displayed by hunters. And most of them feel no guilt about what they're doing, despite it being no different to general murder.

As I said though, it's mainly about the attitude and the way people can see it as anything less than disgusting, yes sometimes disgusting things need to be done to survive, but it doesn't excuse the general attitude of it being all fun and games and some good family bonding time.

[metalslug 31]

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Intelligence shouldn't dictate worth, or by that logic mentally handicapped people are less worthy to live too.

Well, let's study that one;
Insects and arachnids are animals too, albeit less intelligent and less cute and cuddly. I've killed hundreds of 'em, most accidentally but a few deliberately.
If one would reason that a pig or deer has more "worth" than an insect, then even higher "worth" could be assigned to any human that has value to you or to third party that you find worthy.
I have said or implied more than once on this forum that killing specific humans that I dislike would leave me feeling less morally compromised than killing most animals would.

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And you also being from South Africa, I'm sure you're well aware that that is the prominent attitude usually displayed by hunters. And most of them feel no guilt about what they're doing, despite it being no different to general murder.

Indeed, I know of this too, although I don't think modern SA hunters are much different from modern hunters anywhere else in the world. Consider the "canned hunting" trade here, most clients are from the USA.

[Coreece 190]

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If one is struggling to survive, and there are a handful of other humans around, is it more morally wrong to kill them and feed off their meat than an animal, and if yes- howcome? Intelligence shouldn't dictate worth, or by that logic mentally handicapped people are less worthy to live too.

I know it's hypothetical and all..but serioriously...that's why God gave you fucking sentinents... please Meso...don't tell me that's gone too?

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My main problem is the attitude behind it, where it's looked at as more of a 'fun day out', even in the cases of hunting for food

Yes...this is my problem too, but I didn't ever consider eating them because of it...I hope it hasn't got to the point where God has "given you over to a reprobate mind".....

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The way they pose next to the dead animal for a nice photo, as if to say "look, I managed to kill a helpless animal, watch my ego skyrocket".

I know...it's sick...complete pride...as if it's worth anything...but still...I don't want to eat them.

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And most of them feel no guilt about what they're doing, despite it being no different to general murder.

yet you refuse to deal with your guilt that you have felt...how ironic.

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As I said though, it's mainly about the attitude and the way people can see it as anything less than disgusting, yes sometimes disgusting things need to be done to survive, but it doesn't excuse the general attitude of it being all fun and games and some good family bonding time.

alright...quit the selfrighteous bullshit already...we know who you are.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Meso 38]

Stop trying tell me your pathetic God gave me anything. Everything I feel is due to common sense and lessons learned in life, God gave me nothing. And you didn't answer my question at all, you just stepped around it and pulled out the useless 'God' card... AGAIN.

AGAIN with the God?! Seriously...

It's not about the dealing with guilt, it's about FEELING guilt. Or in many of their cases, not feeling it. If you feel guilty you don't act proud when you do it, I don't take pictures of meat and go 'FUCK YEAH I'M SUCH A BIG MAN NOW'.

And no thanks, I don't think I will quit the self-righteous bullshit. Especially when told so by someone who believes in fairy tales. Your entire post was actually pretty worthless, with nothing important or relevant other than more "GOD GOD GOD" bullshit. You need your own evangelical TV show.

[LongWayToFall 0]

People who hunt in order to save money, or survive, are almost non existent in most of the world. If I wanted food, I would go to a nice warm McDonalds and pig out for $3, instead of walking through snow in the freezing cold. Right now, I have hundreds of dollars invested in weapons, hunting licenses, ammunition, etc etc. So there is no way I can deny that it is for recreation.
Recreation is suppose to be something you enjoy right??
Personally, I have only been upland game hunting (pheasant) and some unsuccessful pig hunts. These are animals that I would (and do) thoroughly enjoy eating. I suppose the reason I enjoy hunting, is the challenge of it. Shooting a fast moving target takes skill, as does stalking an animal which has far superior senses to your own. Training to do something which is hard, and then successfully completing that thing, will always give you some sort of satisfaction.

Hunters reduce the overall pain felt by animals, by killing them before they die long deaths usually by starvation, and also by helping fish and game departments by regulating populations. They contribute more money to animal health and population studies than any other source as well, so it certainly isn't all on the "take" side of things.

All of the hunters I have met have been very down to earth and respectful of animals and the environment. They certainly are not so fucked up in the head as to think that killing an animal is on the same level as killing a human being.

[Meso 38]

Truth be told, I try not to kill any animals- whether it be insects- whatever... I generally catch them and put them outside. Only time I kill em is when it's something that can potentially attack me, and even then it's a last resort.

From what I've read insects for the most part don't feel pain, which is a big factor in it. I've also not aware of insects having the same emotional distress/mourning that other larger animals have shown. I'd assume it's something that comes with brain size and the ability for certain brain activity. Though one may prove me wrong.

And even with the killing of an insect, if the mind-set is one of "yeah I totally just killed it, I'm so bad ass right now", it's equally as retarded in my view.

[Meso 38]

In the name of good old debating...

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They certainly are not so fucked up in the head as to think that killing an animal is on the same level as killing a human being.

Would you mind stating the reasons as to why human life is more important than animal life?

And on the topic of over-population, I know a certain species that could definitely be culled down a bit

[LongWayToFall 0]

I suppose having a religious upbringing has influenced my opinion that animals were put on this earth for us, and than humans are a holy thing. But even that aside, sitting on top of the food chain has it's percs haha.
The day the game I am hunting yells to me "hey! don't shoot" is the day I stop hunting.

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And on the topic of over-population, I know a certain species that could definitely be culled down a bit

You got that right.

[billeisele 122]

somehow I knew this thread would degenerate into an anti-hunting rant

I hunt because I enjoy it, all aspects of it, the outdoors, practicing, fresh air, fellowship, tracking, stalking, hiding, observing wildlife and harvesting what was put on this earth for the sustainment of mankind

in South Carolina one aspect of hunting is game management, we have a few thousand car-hit-deer accidents annually causing both financial loss and loss of human life, they destroy millions of dollars of farm crops - if it weren't for hunting we would have an epidemic of deer

if deer are not controlled they overpopulate, transmit disease, suffer and die a terrible death, this has been proven a few times by the do-gooders, ohhh - don't kill the poor animals, read up on the problems at Fripp Island and Hilton Head

in Argentina they have about 7 million doves and parakeets that eat and ruin the crops, hunters harvest about 15% annually, this seems to stabilize the population, my hunting party killed 10,783 in 3 days, they went to orphanages and to feed animal, hunters barely make a dent, without hunting within 2 years it would be almost impossible to grow anything to feed people

the activities of man have created these problems, it is our ethical responsibility to manage the resource, to not do so would be inhumane

so, no I don't feel guilty

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[Meso 38]

So killing because of over-population makes you feel as thought hunting is an enjoyable activity. Fun with the friends eh?

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If deer are not controlled they overpopulate, transmit disease, suffer and die a terrible death

Wow that sounds a lot like this other species I know... Except this other species doesn't have anyone to end their over-population.

The idea that the deer would 'over-populate' is one that is caused by human over-population. And as we populate even more we're going to keep pushing the amount of 'allowed' animals down, because as we expand we'll take over their habitats (as we've done) and then where what was once their home will turn to farms, because as we populate we will need more sources of food.

We're lucky there isn't anyone smarter or stronger than us, or we'd have been culled ages ago.

If anything it is our ethical responsibility not to breed. And don't try say "It's the reason why we're here, our sole purpose is to breed... not doing so would be morally wrong"... Because every animal has the same reason to exist, to procreate, but somehow because we reproduce like destructive rabbits we can now dictate what is more worthy to live.

I'm a misanthropist, it's no secret. But it's these facts that make me one.