Economy still sucks, unemployment is still high, yet the rich just keep getting richer.

[StreetScooby 5]

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Rut roh, looks like the non-contributors have been exposed;

Yeah, guys like you that don't have jobs, but feel entitled to take working peoples' money. That's what's been exposed here.

I have paid more taxes in one year than you have probably made in personal income in a decade.

We are all engines of karma

[Rstanley0312 0]

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Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning.

Nailed it!

So seriously you might as well give up on Lucky it is pointless..... just be ready after November to post


Then after Obama gets beat two years later you will get to do it again.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[StreetScooby 5]

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I can't possibly tell you how crushed I am because some anonymous person hiding behind a picture and persona of Scooby-doo on an internet chat forum can't "take any of (my) posts seriously."

For the very last time, you and your ilk are worthless in these discussions. Stop dealing with drug gangs. IMO, that's the only thing you're good at.

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(and you consider me clueless?)

Yes I do. You are an incredibly clueless person. I will mock you, and your ilk, in public at will going forward.

We are all engines of karma

[quade 3]

Again, I'm crushed.

Look, rather than attacking me, why not show me the error of my ways.

Please prove to me the harder somebody works the more they get paid.

Please show a correlation between calories expended to money earned.

Or, if you'd like, show be something about risk vs reward. Oh PLEASE show me the correlation of a police officer or fireman putting his life on the line and the money they earn vs an investment banker gambling with other people's money and what he can pocket.

You say I'm clueless . . . prove it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Please prove to me the harder somebody works the more they get paid.

One case study used at Harvard and other MBA programs: Lincoln Electric's incentive management program. It involves piecework and a guaranteed employment program plus other attributes that all work together.

Easy to show how working harder leads to less pay: Union jobs. Work hard, job gets done...but you get laid off. Sandbag it and stretch it out as long as possible you get paid for a few more weeks, maybe even long enough to jump right onto the next job.
Or this: The more you work the more you earn and the higher tax bracket you jump into so each hour you work you get to take home a little bit less than the hour preceeding it. It even works in negative numbers! Don't work=no income=the government GIVES you money!

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[futuredivot 0]

I don't have time to run through all of this so please give me the criteria that is being used to define how "hard" the work is. It appears that you're using strictly physical energy expended. Correct?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Lucky... 0]

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Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related.

On social issues, you're really good at making it sound complicated. We are all equal under the law. No more, not less.

Ok but you still didn't address the over/under taxation argument. The debt soared under Reagan, it's soaring now, the only time it hasn't increaszed beyond the interest rate is under higher taxation. I'm guessing you still won't address it.

[Lucky... 0]

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Oh no no no Lucky...not a typing error since the keys are not next to one another. Your definition, not mine...remember?

I'm not interested in a spelling/typo contest, if you're out of args I suggest you rely on them heavily. I think all can realize I'm saying, 'landing gear' if I write, 'manding gear.' If you can't put that together, again, just make that the emphasis of your args.

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You have no clue as to what an engineer does, do you?

I work with them all the time. I've worked with private DER's as well as corporate engineers and largely they take our ideas and perform the stress analysis, crap out the 8130, field approval, EO or whatever engineering directive they choose to issue. But that's just me and my ~30 years experience, so what do I know. As for initial engineering on a part, appliance, design, etc, I'm sure it's different, probably a commitee of people headed by a chief engineer who delegates each aspect of teh product to various engineers based upon their specciality: fuel, structure, electrical, etc.

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Not all engineers spend their time behind a desk. Some of us are actually hands-on performing tasks much more difficult than following an instruction book on pulling "manding gear" (whatever that is) from an aircraft.

Sad that you have no argument so you live on typos. But engineers do follow a book to a dgree, they must run stress analysis on products, which is a sort of guidance. If it's not stressworthy, that design can't be done or has to be modified.

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Who do you think designed that "manding gear" and developed the procedure for R&R?

Engineers design landing gear, tech writers develop the manuals for maintenance/overhaul, at least in avaiation that is. Perhaps the trailer world is different.

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Engineers, that's who. If it were left up to people like you to write the procedures we would have wrenches everywhere destroying aircraft because they didn't understand the implications of many of their actions that they thought were harmless.

So first we go for typos, then we go for elitism. Generally, in manufacturing or maintenance, the engineers come down to to us and we shown them the issue. We suggest a repair, they run the stress and gice us teh OK. Unless it's an unusual issue, there are prescribed repairs either in the SRM or at the manufatcurer. I know Bombardier was good for these special repairs with engineering pre-approval. But somethimes we have to submit to the manufacturer for unique repairs. Of course trailer-land isn't quite so complex, I'm guessing even a guy like you could figure it out.

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Sorry you don't understand the 16th. It does not claim anywhere that the money I earn belongs to the government, it only empowers congress to levy taxes.

Right, that's what I said; congress can order teh collection of taxes without limits. It doesn't care about trailer-boy specifically, it juts permits the collection of taxes for the general fund; how is that different from what you wrote? You take taxes waaaay too personally, as a Libertarian or whatever secret party you belong to, you think taxation and most aspects of gov are a conspiracy; they're not.

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If my earning DID belong to the government we would have no need for an ammendment granting congress such power, would we?

OMG, you should have written, "earnings" you onitted the, 's.' And, "amendent" has 1 M, not 2. Wait, I have a life and an argument, we'll let it go and address the issue.

No, so they had to create an amendment to collect whatever they see fit at varying times. Your money doesn't inherently belong to them, it is an amended need, so they codified and enumerated it for your viewing pleasure. Of course when the US Const was written we didn't have paved roads for your trailers to ride on so you have a job, so as much as you hate, you have to give back. And if you become disabled, you will be given funds to ensure you don't die in the streets, so just in case you have to give to that fund too. Sucks to live in society, huh? I'd like to see you move to Montana.

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Remember, my offer to help you move to a country more suited to your ideals is still on the table. North Korea comes to mind.

Tell ya what, come up with 1 million bucks and I'll even renounce my citizenship. As well, I won't help but will send you well-wishes to see you move to Montana with your bretheren Freemen.

[happythoughts 0]

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Good summary. Which means that the risk of overtaxation is much less than the risk of undertaxation - which may be one reason things are biased in that direction. Another complication is that taxation does not directly influence spending; as we've seen the two are not all that related.

On social issues, you're really good at making it sound complicated. We are all equal under the law. No more, not less.

Either you are not in the US, or you are not good with
current events.

Lindsay Lohan did another 15 minutes in jail this week, after being sentenced to 30 days for defying
the order of a judge.

I have never thought that the law applies equally for the
rich and poor.

[Lucky... 0]

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Rut roh, looks like the non-contributors have been exposed;

Yeah, guys like you that don't have jobs, but feel entitled to take working peoples' money. That's what's been exposed here.

I have paid more taxes in one year than you have probably made in personal income in a decade.

At least you're good at pseudo blowing of the horn. I have worked since I was 17 straight thru, even as a 14 YO I lied and said I was 16 to work. Your attempt to make me a lazy guy works within the minds of you and yours, just fails in reality-ville.

[Lucky... 0]

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Let me guess...you are one of those people who think every child playing soccer should get a trophy for participating but no trophy is handed out for winning.

Nailed it!

So seriously you might as well give up on Lucky it is pointless..... just be ready after November to post


Then after Obama gets beat two years later you will get to do it again.

How's that stock market crash working out? Hmmmm, 200 pts on friday; > 10,800 - looks like a real bear market to me; you were right.

That was about a year ago you predicted a sell-off/crash, laughing at your computer with your moronic co-workers. The market was about 10,200 then, blew up to > 11K, then months later down to 9800 and now back to 10,800. Do you need more time, perhaps another year to make your dream prognostication come true?

[Lucky... 0]

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I can't possibly tell you how crushed I am because some anonymous person hiding behind a picture and persona of Scooby-doo on an internet chat forum can't "take any of (my) posts seriously."

For the very last time, you and your ilk are worthless in these discussions. Stop dealing with drug gangs. IMO, that's the only thing you're good at.

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(and you consider me clueless?)

Yes I do. You are an incredibly clueless person. I will mock you, and your ilk, in public at will going forward.

Ever notice you borrow a keyword and wear it out? Formalized education teaches to mix up the orbate language in the same paper, let alone the same sentence. First it was clueless 3 times in every post, now it's ilk; would you like to borrow a new one?

[Lucky... 0]

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Please prove to me the harder somebody works the more they get paid.

One case study used at Harvard and other MBA programs: Lincoln Electric's incentive management program. It involves piecework and a guaranteed employment program plus other attributes that all work together.

Easy to show how working harder leads to less pay: Union jobs. Work hard, job gets done...but you get laid off. Sandbag it and stretch it out as long as possible you get paid for a few more weeks, maybe even long enough to jump right onto the next job.
Or this: The more you work the more you earn and the higher tax bracket you jump into so each hour you work you get to take home a little bit less than the hour preceeding it. It even works in negative numbers! Don't work=no income=the government GIVES you money!

Welfare is so monetarily puny that few think it's a good idea. Very few %-wise are chronic welfare recipients, most use it as a step-out of it.

Show your case studt rather than, "one study."

Illustrate how unionization is laziness vs non-unionization by objective data.

[quade 3]

Well, at least you're willing to explore the idea a bit.

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I don't have time to run through all of this so please give me the criteria that is being used to define how "hard" the work is. It appears that you're using strictly physical energy expended. Correct?

We could start with that historically. The manual laborers who moved the stones to build the pyramids or the taskmasters cracking the whip; who worked harder and who was rewarded more? Ok, sure, ancient history. Feel free to dismiss that if you wish, but it still applies whether you believe it or not.

Need a more modern example; one not reliant on physical labor?

Let's say Mark Zuckerberg is worth $10 billion dollars (which is in fact conservative). Sure he created Facebook and I have no doubt he actually did work quite hard to do so. That said, do you really believe he has worked "harder" over the span of his life than say, Ronald Reagan? Assuming Ronald Reagan was worth more or less $10 million dollars at the time of his death, do you really believe Zuckerberg has worked 1000 times "harder" than Ronald Reagan?

Let's be wildly generous and say Reagan had $100 million dollars; did Zuckerberg work 100 times harder than Reagan? Well, I'm fairly certain Reagan wasn't a billionaire, but even had he been; did Zuckerberg work 10 times harder?

No. Zuckerberg had a nifty idea. He wrote some code. He made a web site. Other people got interested and invested in it.

But does that mean he worked 1000 times HARDER over the course of his still short life than President Reagan did?

If you say yes, I say bullshit.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Nope, you haven't a clue.

Why wait 'til you have a miilion bucks? North Korea will make sure you have everything you need, just like you want the government here to do. You won't need the money.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Lucky... 0]

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Nope, you haven't a clue.

Why wait 'til you have a miilion bucks? North Korea will make sure you have everything you need, just like you want the government here to do. You won't need the money.

You don't know about US Const impeachment and I don't have a clue? Good one. As for N Korea, another lame example set from you, rather than evaluate the US with the rest of the world, you drag one of the worst countries out. Clear you don't have an argument.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Please prove to me the harder somebody works the more they get paid.

One case study used at Harvard and other MBA programs: Lincoln Electric's incentive management program. It involves piecework and a guaranteed employment program plus other attributes that all work together.

Easy to show how working harder leads to less pay: Union jobs. Work hard, job gets done...but you get laid off. Sandbag it and stretch it out as long as possible you get paid for a few more weeks, maybe even long enough to jump right onto the next job.
Or this: The more you work the more you earn and the higher tax bracket you jump into so each hour you work you get to take home a little bit less than the hour preceeding it. It even works in negative numbers! Don't work=no income=the government GIVES you money!

Welfare is so monetarily puny that few think it's a good idea. Very few %-wise are chronic welfare recipients, most use it as a step-out of it.

Show your case studt rather than, "one study."

Illustrate how unionization is laziness vs non-unionization by objective data.

Here ye go, Francis. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1000155,00.html If you want the actual case study you will have to buy/get it from a business school just like everyone else does.

It is the role of the unions to protect their jobs at all costs, even if it means slowing down production and hurting their employer. This works in the unions favor in the short term but, as has been proven out in this recession, it kills business and JOBS in the long term.
It may come as a surprise, but it is in everyones best interest for a company to eliminate jobs through technology. Using advances in technology and more efficient manufacturing methods, products can be made less expensive and with higher quality. This enables more people to buy them and drives up demand. To meet demand manufacturers must hire additional people to produce the needed product. This is an direct competition with the goals of the unions.
Want an example of union vs nonunion production you can see for yourself? Go visit a construction site under union contract. Pay attention to how many people are working vs those just hanging around doing pretty much nothing. Then go visit a comparable site using non-union contractors. Notice how everyone is busy and how the shovels can stand up by themselves (the unions still haven't figured that one out).

Now, are you ready to move? I have next weekend available and will even bring a couple folks from this forum to help get you packed up and on your way to your new home where the temple priests have taken care of everything...the words you read, the songs you sing, the pictures that give pleasure to your eye. :)

Me...I will stay here and provide for myself and give graciously to the charities and people I see fit to give to. Which, by the way, is on the order of 10k-15k per year. And, no, that is not my taxes. Most is non-deductable also.
How much do you give?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[rhaig 0]

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Engineers design landing gear, tech writers develop the manuals for maintenance/overhaul, at least in avaiation that is. Perhaps the trailer world is different.

I'd say that the tech writers take the process from the engineers (or the mechanics that worked with the engineers) and put it in terms that normal English speaking people can understand.

--
Rob

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Nope, you haven't a clue.

Why wait 'til you have a miilion bucks? North Korea will make sure you have everything you need, just like you want the government here to do. You won't need the money.

You don't know about US Const impeachment and I don't have a clue? Good one. As for N Korea, another lame example set from you, rather than evaluate the US with the rest of the world, you drag one of the worst countries out. Clear you don't have an argument.

That's funny.
You claim the 16th somehow makes the government possessor of my income, yet you can't show where.
You make claims with no data to back them up then, when challenged, insist upon data and statistics from others to disprove your WAGs.
Yeah, my buddy Lucky. Always good for a laugh.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Engineers design landing gear, tech writers develop the manuals for maintenance/overhaul, at least in avaiation that is. Perhaps the trailer world is different.

I'd say that the tech writers take the process from the engineers (or the mechanics that worked with the engineers) and put it in terms that normal English speaking people can understand.

Depending on application, the tech writer can work more closely with the engineers or the technicians depending upon expected audience. Usually a document must be approved by r&d, manufacturing, applications, service, marketing, etc. before being released. Rarely is a document ever released after review by just one department.
I work a great deal with both engineering departments and field service departments since I had many years of experience in the field before ever going to college and getting my degree. Once in a while I get called in to act as an interpreter between evaluators in the field and the engineers who are trying to work with them.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[rhaig 0]

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Welfare is so monetarily puny that few think it's a good idea. Very few %-wise are chronic welfare recipients, most use it as a step-out of it.

I believe I've posted before about someone in my family who refuses to get a job (that's basically been handed to her) because it would mean they lost most of their welfare. So rather than take a job and get off her ass and on her feet, she chooses to suck on the public teat.

I'm not saying all welfare recipients are living inside the system when they could get on their own, but you post as if you believe none are.

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Illustrate how unionization is laziness vs non-unionization by objective data.

perception means a lot. it's not objective data, but when I see a Boston PD officer sitting in a chair at an intersection reading a paper I wonder why. When I ask friends whom I'm visiting, they explain that certain intersections have officers posted at them during certain parts of the day. Now perhaps that's to increase awareness of drivers, or public safety issues, but it comes across locally (and in local press too apparently) as a prime example of how BPD is a union shop -- a cop sitting on his ass reading a paper.

Perception is truth in the eye of the beholder.

for the record, I thank unions for my vacation, weekends off, and benefits.

I also found it humorous that the pot growers in CA are teamsters now

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

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Once in a while I get called in to act as an interpreter

funny... the tech writers in our group have all referred to themselves as interpreters as well.

--
Rob

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Once in a while I get called in to act as an interpreter

funny... the tech writers in our group have all referred to themselves as interpreters as well.

That's pretty much their job.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[skipbelt 0]

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WHAT DID YOU CPA TELL YOU TO SHIELD YOUR INCOME?

Hey Lucky - do you even have a job?

Rut roh, looks like the non-contributors have been exposed; you know who you are.

self fulfilling prophecy !

[kelpdiver 2]

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I don't have time to run through all of this so please give me the criteria that is being used to define how "hard" the work is. It appears that you're using strictly physical energy expended. Correct?

We could start with that historically. The manual laborers who moved the stones to build the pyramids or the taskmasters cracking the whip; who worked harder and who was rewarded more? Ok, sure, ancient history. Feel free to dismiss that if you wish, but it still applies whether you believe it or not.

Need a more modern example; one not reliant on physical labor?

Let's say Mark Zuckerberg is worth $10 billion dollars (which is in fact conservative). Sure he created Facebook and I have no doubt he actually did work quite hard to do so. That said, do you really believe he has worked "harder" over the span of his life than say, Ronald Reagan? Assuming Ronald Reagan was worth more or less $10 million dollars at the time of his death, do you really believe Zuckerberg has worked 1000 times "harder" than Ronald Reagan?

You still really haven't defined the question in a way that will allow anyone to "prove" it to you, presuming (laughably) that it could be done.

Does it have to be proven that working harder always pays off? Or will we pick the equally ridiculous stance that it never pays off? Your use of extreme examples suggest that you'd like to pay on the margins, rather than tackle the question in a honest manner.

And what do you mean by work harder? Is it as simple as hours worked? Or is it days per week worked? Zuckerburg probably didn't create a product with half a billion users by working a 5 day, 40 hour shift.

Or do you want to use physical effort as the measure? That could be in terms of pounds moved, volume of sweat generated, ulcers caused, heart attacks suffered, a bunch of options here.

BTW, your evaluation of Zuckerberg's worth is a paper one. Facebook is making money, but not near as much as the valuation presumes. And we saw how quickly Myspace fell when Fox tried to monetize it.

Certainly it's true that his success has a lottery component to it. The 90s had Marc Andriessen and Mark Cuban as other examples.