If I broke into your house . . .

[turtlespeed 212]

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>Why is it my responsibility to make adjustments and amend my life to
>accomodate illegal activity?

You don't have to.

Really?

Obviously you don't understand the financial impact of being mandated by federal regulations to verify citizenship that the illegal aliens issue has caused.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[futuredivot 0]

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No. I was simply telling it like it is. Neither phrase is "wholly accurate."

And I contend that as long as you hide from the word "illegal", you are not "telling it like it is". A quick scan of the thesaurus on my desk and three online sites fails to turn up a single resource that lists "undocumented" as a synonym of "illegal"

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[quade 3]

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A quick scan of the thesaurus on my desk and three online sites fails to turn up a single resource that lists "undocumented" as a synonym of "illegal"

Well, that's YOUR waste of time then isn't it. I never suggested they were.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 212]

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Tell me something, Why is it my responsibility to make adjustments and amend my life to accomodate illegal activity?

How does my use of wording impact that?

The fact is that the cost of entirely sealing the border is not cost-effective, just as the cost of entirely burglar-proofing (or roach-proofing) your home is not cost-effective.

The thing to dicker about is what we're willing to pay to get as good a seal as reasonable, and what constitutes "reasonable." As long as people take non-negotiable stances on an impossible task (in either direction), there can't be any progress.

Wendy P.

The use of the word doesn't directly affect that - my reply was to Bill.
The softening of the word and ignoring, by omission, the harsher aspects of the phrasing, it softens the discription, and thus degrades the impact the word origianly had.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,475]

>Obviously you don't understand the financial impact of being mandated by
>federal regulations to verify citizenship that the illegal aliens issue has
>caused.

Ah. If your question is really "why should I have to pay taxes to support the US justice system?" then the answer is "because you live in the USA."

But since you pay taxes now, that's not "an amendment to your life."

[wmw999 2,174]

Removing the emotion from phrases often allows them to be discussed more openly.

Any thoughts about the rest of my post, which did address points in yours, I believe?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

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>Obviously you don't understand the financial impact of being mandated by
>federal regulations to verify citizenship that the illegal aliens issue has
>caused.

Ah. If your question is really "why should I have to pay taxes to support the US justice system?" then the answer is "because you live in the USA."

But since you pay taxes now, that's not "an amendment to your life."

Your interrogative assumption is false.

The taxes you refer to are an additional work and time that has to be paid for because someone else commited an illegal act.

Unless you can show where work and time is payable as a tax.

I believe that equates to theft.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Andy9o8 0]

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What in the name of all that is good and right in this world is an "Undocumented Worker"? What is that?

I'm with you on this one. (I've also heard the term "undocumented immigrant." Same principle.) In the US, it's a euphimism for "illegal immigrant worker", in one form of another, and it's used as an antiseptic to deliberately gloss-over the fact that the person is a non-citizen who has entered the US illegally, or has illegally over-stayed his visa, or is in-country with a visa but is employed when that employment is not permitted by his visa.

A 16 year old kid who works at a store without getting his working papers is an "undocumented worker", too; but that kind of example is virtually never what the term refers to in current American parlance.

[billvon 2,475]

>The taxes you refer to are an additional work and time that has to be paid
>for because someone else commited an illegal act.

That would be true if there were additional crime. However, since crime rates have been dropping since around 1992 (both violent and property crime) your statement is untrue.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Removing the emotion from phrases often allows them to be discussed more openly. .

I agree, in principle. But I don't think "illegal immigrant" is an emotional term, I think it is a factually accurate term, even if some choose to use it emotionally. To my thinking "Undocumented worker", or "undocumented immigrant", as those terms are commonly used in the US, have less intellectual honesty than "illegal immigrant".

[turtlespeed 212]

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What in the name of all that is good and right in this world is an "Undocumented Worker"? What is that?

I'm with you on this one. (I've also heard the term "undocumented immigrant." Same principle.) In the US, it's a euphimism for "illegal immigrant worker", in one form of another, and it's used as an antiseptic to deliberately gloss-over the fact that the person is a non-citizen who has entered the US illegally, or has illegally over-stayed his visa, or is in-country with a visa but is employed when that employment is not permitted by his visa.

A 16 year old kid who works at a store without getting his working papers is an "undocumented worker", too; but that kind of example is virtually never what the term refers to in current American parlance.

SOME exampes where illegal immigrant may not be 100% accurate:
Arrived on a tourist visa and stayed - STILL HERE Illegaly
Student Visa and working off campus - STILL illegal
Work Visa expired - STILL illegal - but much more understandable
Was a child/minor when entered into US by proxy of parents - STILL illegal - but more understandable

I am sure there are others, but illegal and alien still describe the persons listed above.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[futuredivot 0]

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Well, that's YOUR waste of time then isn't it. I never suggested they were.

How separate but equal of you

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[turtlespeed 212]

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>The taxes you refer to are an additional work and time that has to be paid
>for because someone else commited an illegal act.

That would be true if there were additional crime. However, since crime rates have been dropping since around 1992 (both violent and property crime) your statement is untrue.

I notice that you don't consider it a crime to illegally cross the border.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Andy9o8 0]

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Quote

>The taxes you refer to are an additional work and time that has to be paid
>for because someone else commited an illegal act.

That would be true if there were additional crime. However, since crime rates have been dropping since around 1992 (both violent and property crime) your statement is untrue.

I notice that you don't consider it a crime to illegally cross the border.

That's a pretty ineffective debate tactic. You know fully well he didn't say that, and hasn't said that. Inmost debates, if you have to resort to putting words in the other guy's mouth, you're already behind the 8-ball.

[turtlespeed 212]

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Quote

Quote

>The taxes you refer to are an additional work and time that has to be paid
>for because someone else commited an illegal act.

That would be true if there were additional crime. However, since crime rates have been dropping since around 1992 (both violent and property crime) your statement is untrue.

I notice that you don't consider it a crime to illegally cross the border.

That's a pretty ineffective debate tactic. You know fully well he didn't say that, and hasn't said that. Inmost debates, if you have to resort to putting words in the other guy's mouth, you're already behind the 8-ball.

He mentioned violent crime and property crime and tied them into my post like it was all there is to choose from. What tactic is that?

This is his post:

Quote

>The taxes you refer to are an additional work and time that has to be paid
>for because someone else commited an illegal act.

That would be true if there were additional crime. However, since crime rates have been dropping since around 1992 (both violent and property crime) your statement is untrue.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,475]

>I notice that you don't consider it a crime to illegally cross the border.

Your assumption is, once again, incorrect.

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

>I notice that you don't consider it a crime to illegally cross the border.

Your assumption is, once again, incorrect.

IOt was a logical conclusion when the only options you list are violent and property crimes.

Or was that intentional misdirection?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 2,475]

>Ot was a logical conclusion when the only options you list are violent and
>property crimes. Or was that intentional misdirection?

Not going to play Turtle-games today. You don't need my help to make shit up.

[turtlespeed 212]

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>Ot was a logical conclusion when the only options you list are violent and
>property crimes. Or was that intentional misdirection?

Not going to play Turtle-games today. You don't need my help to make shit up.

So why do you insist on helping then?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Bolas 5]

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Tell me something, Why is it my responsibility to make adjustments and amend my life to accomodate illegal activity?

How does my use of wording impact that?

The fact is that the cost of entirely sealing the border is not cost-effective, just as the cost of entirely burglar-proofing (or roach-proofing) your home is not cost-effective.

The thing to dicker about is what we're willing to pay to get as good a seal as reasonable, and what constitutes "reasonable." As long as people take non-negotiable stances on an impossible task (in either direction), there can't be any progress.

Wendy P.

You don't have to make something impossible to stop or limit it, just have to remove some or all of the incentive.

As a big one is $$$, simply making it less profitable through fines and other methods would help tremendously.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[turtlespeed 212]

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Quote

Quote

Tell me something, Why is it my responsibility to make adjustments and amend my life to accomodate illegal activity?

How does my use of wording impact that?

The fact is that the cost of entirely sealing the border is not cost-effective, just as the cost of entirely burglar-proofing (or roach-proofing) your home is not cost-effective.

The thing to dicker about is what we're willing to pay to get as good a seal as reasonable, and what constitutes "reasonable." As long as people take non-negotiable stances on an impossible task (in either direction), there can't be any progress.

Wendy P.

You don't have to make something impossible to stop or limit it, just have to remove some or all of the incentive.

As a big one is $$$, simply making it less profitable through fines and other methods would help tremendously.

Absolutely - Fine then 20 to 50 times the amounts fined today - and that would be either a boon for the imigration service's financials, or a large deterrent for the business community, or both.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

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Cripes -- it's just a word. It's a motherfucking cocksucking scummy dirty rotten stealing lowest-of-the-low illegal alien, who happens to be working. It's shorter than saying "worker illegal alien."

Is that better?

Wendy P.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wendy.. I applaud your ability to live down there... I really do

You are a far far far more tolerant woman than I

[skipbelt 0]

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If you see a child molester that you recognise, do you refer to hom as a child molester or a Misunderstood Sexual Education Teacher?

The word "Father" is shorter.

i'm a father , but not a priest , certainly not a catholic priest ,
i'm reminded of a joke, i could be imposed upon to share !

[skygypsie 2]

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Quote

Quote

If you see a child molester that you recognise, do you refer to hom as a child molester or a Misunderstood Sexual Education Teacher?

The word "Father" is shorter.

i'm a father , but not a priest , certainly not a catholic priest ,
i'm reminded of a joke, i could be imposed upon to share !

please...do tell

[Kennedy 0]

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What in the name of all that is good and right in this world is an "Undocumented Worker"? What is that?

I'm with you on this one. (snip)

Calling an illegal immigrant an undocumented worked is like calling a crack dealer an undocumented pharmacist.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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