Who Is The Man Behind The Ground Zero Mosque?

[normiss 639]

The only funding issues I've seen so far are 3-4 years old of a story. I believe those people were charged, prosecuted, and sentenced.
So it's hard to see how those are going to contribute to this project.
If what I have read is correct, they've only raised about $10k so far - doesn't seem like much to worry about yet either.
If people were TRULY concerned with middle-east investments in this country they would already be raising sand about THE Saudi Prince's current investments and how much he made from the US government's bailout programs.

[billvon 2,464]

>We were in a global war with Bin Lauden and his type long before 9/11.

Agreed. Indeed, Al Qaeda actually declared war on us.

>I have questions about building it where they want to. I have a right here
>(at lesat so far) to voice those questions.

Absolutely! Ask whatever you like.

>I however, questing why they want to build there.

Because there are a lot of Muslims who live there and want to worship, and they got the building at a good price with full support of the local community. From Rauf:

=========
. . because I am a member of that community. My mosque I've been Imam of which is just 10 blocks north of there, it's part of the Tribeca area. I've been a good neighbor of this community for the last quarter of a century. They know me -- I know them. I have a track record, and... this is the neighborhood that I have been Imam in for the last quarter of a century. This is where we looked at; this is where we have a need for something. And we looked at other places, this is the one that destiny brought our way.
=========

>And if it is really to be a center to bring people together why would you want
>to start out like this?

It started out with full support of the local community. It's only when the right wing extremists got a hold of the issue and tried to make it a way to attack Obama that it became divisive.

If a place of worship like this - one welcomed by the community, and one that plans to offer much to the community in return - is able to be quashed by religious extremists, what does that say about the USA?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

This is a local issue. The locals say it's ok.

Link

Quote

A majority of New Yorkers oppose plans to build a mosque and Muslim cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll released Thursday.

Fifty-two percent of the respondents said they did not want the mosque to be built at all, 31 percent are in favor of it, and 17 percent are undecided.

"New York enjoys a reputation as one of the most tolerant places in America, but New Yorkers are opposed to a proposal to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero," said Quinnipiac University Polling Institute Director Maurice Carroll in a press release.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[normiss 639]

The polls for the borough where it is proposed show support.

[billvon 2,464]

>A majority of New Yorkers oppose plans to build a mosque and
>Muslim cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero.

Correct. And a majority of locals (i.e. people who live in Manhattan) support it.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

The polls for the borough where it is proposed show support.

I must have missed where there was a specific poll in that borough - can you point me to it? I'd like to see the numbers polled and the demographics, since I imagine it would be a very small sample.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Correct. And a majority of locals (i.e. people who live in Manhattan) support it.

You know this because you live and work in Manhattan and hear what people are saying everyday? Or just some poll that can be manipulated in anyway a person wants it to be.

Most people that I have spoken to say...They have the right to build, but don't think that they should.

Saying that they have religious freedom and can build the Mosque is not the same a "supporting" the Mosque.

Dom

[billvon 2,464]

>I must have missed where there was a specific poll in that borough - can
>you point me to it?

Attached. Summary:

"Do you favor or oppose the construction near Ground Zero?"

Manhattan: 51% for, 41% against, 8% no opinion

No college:24% for
Some college:35% for
College grad:47% for
Postgrad:60% for

[billvon 2,464]

>You know this because you live and work in Manhattan and hear
>what people are saying everyday?

No, although I was back there two weekends ago, and the people I talked to there seemed to mirror this poll.

>Saying that they have religious freedom and can build the Mosque is not
>the same a "supporting" the Mosque.

Agreed. And most Manhattanites favor construction of the Mosque.

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

If a place of worship like this - one welcomed by the community,

Again. Supporting freedom of Religion does not mean supporting the Mosque at that location.

Dom

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

A majority of New Yorkers oppose plans to build a mosque and Muslim cultural center two blocks from Ground Zero, according to a Quinnipiac University Poll released Thursday.

It's always interesting to watch a battle of poll with rather substantial differences in results. It can show change of public opinion, or very careful work by the paid pollster. Or simple incompetence.

Add in Bill's subsequent citation and we have 2 showing support, one showing opposition.

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Agreed. And most Manhattanites favor construction of the Mosque.

892 people in Manhattan is not an accurate poll. Not even close. There are more people then that work in my office building.

Even the top number in the poll that you posted shows that 67% of the people polled think that they do have the right to build, but shouldn't.

Dom

[skipbelt 0]

Quote

"Building a mosque is legal, but it's not good public relations to do it at ground zero. "
Then we should be thankful they're not trying to do that.

if you say it's not a mosque it's a " community " center with a mosque in it that's TERRIBLY dishonest
if you say it's not ground zero , a landing gear assembly hit the building at the proposed site , propaganda much ?

[billvon 2,464]

>892 people in Manhattan is not an accurate poll. Not even close.

It matches the results of an earlier poll. Until you find one that goes the other way, it's the best indication that we have.

>Even the top number in the poll that you posted shows that 67% of the
>people polled think that they do have the right to build, but shouldn't.

Agreed. One thing that is common to all the polls is that the farther you get away from the site, the more people oppose it. Which begs the question - who cares what someone from Tulsa, OK (or even Buffalo, NY) thinks about a Manhattan zoning board decision?

[billvon 2,464]

>if you say it's not a mosque it's a " community " center with a mosque in
>it that's TERRIBLY dishonest

It is a community center with a mosque in it. You may not like that fact, but that doesn't change what it is.

>if you say it's not ground zero . . .

It's not. It's two and a half blocks away. You can't even see it from the WTC site.

>a landing gear assembly hit the building at the proposed site

And ash from Mt. St. Helens landed in Los Angeles. Doesn't mean Los Angeles is in Washington.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>You know this because you live and work in Manhattan and hear
>what people are saying everyday?

No, although I was back there two weekends ago, and the people I talked to there seemed to mirror this poll.

Well, in a place like NYC, I would expect those opposed to be disinclined to openly admit it, just as we've seen with racially oriented issues.

DG: > 892 people in Manhattan is not an accurate poll. Not even close. There are more people then that work in my office building.

900 people is plenty, provided good sampling. However, unlike Bill's on the street approach, polling these days tends to be more conservative than reality because it's typically phone based. Younger people are more likely to not be home, or not even have a land line at all.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>892 people in Manhattan is not an accurate poll. Not even close.

It matches the results of an earlier poll. Until you find one that goes the other way, it's the best indication that we have.

>Even the top number in the poll that you posted shows that 67% of the
>people polled think that they do have the right to build, but shouldn't.

Agreed. One thing that is common to all the polls is that the farther you get away from the site, the more people oppose it. Which begs the question - who cares what someone from Tulsa, OK (or even Buffalo, NY) thinks about a Manhattan zoning board decision?

Makes a nice deflection from the fact that NY city residents as a whole think it should be built someplace else, though.

32. Some people say that because of the opposition of Ground Zero relatives, the Muslim group should voluntarily build the mosque somewhere else. Do you agree or disagree?


Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom
Agree 71% 85% 61% 73% 69% 72%
Disagree 21 8 30 22 24 19
DK/NA 8 7 9 5 7 9

UpStat NYC Suburbs
Agree 76% 63% 76%
Disagree 17 28 17
DK/NA 7 9 7

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Quote

And ash from Mt. St. Helens landed in Los Angeles. Doesn't mean Los Angeles is in Washington.

Damn right skippy.... Washington State is already Californicated enough.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>if you say it's not a mosque it's a " community " center with a mosque in
>it that's TERRIBLY dishonest

It is a community center with a mosque in it. You may not like that fact, but that doesn't change what it is.

>if you say it's not ground zero . . .

It's not. It's two and a half blocks away. You can't even see it from the WTC site.

>a landing gear assembly hit the building at the proposed site

And ash from Mt. St. Helens landed in Los Angeles. Doesn't mean Los Angeles is in Washington.

Ash can be carried hundreds/thousands of miles on winds - the last time I checked, landing gear assemblies can't.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Agreed. One thing that is common to all the polls is that the farther you get away from the site, the more people oppose it. Which begs the question - who cares what someone from Tulsa, OK (or even Buffalo, NY) thinks about a Manhattan zoning board decision?

I have stated before that I think this should have stayed a local matter. Politics and the PC era we live in gets in the way.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

DG: > 892 people in Manhattan is not an accurate poll. Not even close. There are more people then that work in my office building.

900 people is plenty, provided good sampling. However, unlike Bill's on the street approach, polling these days tends to be more conservative than reality because it's typically phone based. Younger people are more likely to not be home, or not even have a land line at all.

Polls can say whatever the taker wants them to say with the right questions.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if it was put to a vote. A simple "yes" or "no" to the location.

Dom

[wmw999 2,166]

Define "local." Manhattan, lower Manhattan, NYC as a whole, state? Sounds like you disagree with at least one local poll.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

So you believe that the siting of a community center with a Mosque should be put to a vote. I guess in the Bible Belt and Texas in the 1960's that segregationists wishes should have been honored too.

An attack on the constitional rights of others is wrong.... dead wrong... then... and now.

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

Define "local." Manhattan

How about the 5 boroughs together.

Quote

Sounds like you disagree with at least one local poll.

Actually the polls say what I believe. They have the right to build. Just think they should build it somewhere else.

Dom

[billvon 2,464]

>Makes a nice deflection from the fact that NY city residents as a
>whole think it should be built someplace else, though.

Deflection? T hat's what I said. NYC residents on average oppose it; Manhattanites support it. Manhattan is just one part of NYC. It also happens to be where the mosque will be built - so they are the locals.