Salmonella in eggs

[muff528 3]

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........ The chickens are sitting in their shit, that's how salmonella gets spread about........

I think we should look into the UK vaccine mentioned in kallend's post above. The chickens will still be laying eggs into their own shit but it will be salmonella-free shit.

[muff528 3]

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I am merely commenting on the unfathomable quantity of wasted food when this really doesn't have to be a total loss.

Agreed.

Though, surely you understand it is natural for one to want nothing to even be considered for loss in the first place.

This is not a "chicken or the egg" scenario, but a solvable equation that can either be prevented or dealt with as a result. I would rather prevent it in the future.

Absolutely, but we will never have incident-free industry whether it be eggs or oil. We just need to address problems as they occur and try to avert future incidents based on what we've learned. Yeah, I'd much rather eat salmonella-free eggs than have to kill them before I eat them.

[billvon 2,434]

>No matter how mechanized the process gets you still need a chicken to
>squat and lay an egg.

Agreed. And there are a great many ways to do that. Some leave chickens prone to infection and eggs prone to salmonella exposure. Best to avoid those ways IMO.

>Also, I was not talking about someone scarfing down a couple of
>"extra" eggs before bed. I was referring to people who might not have had
>anything else.

If you're referring to problems with starvation, you can get 200 calories worth of eggs for $0.50. 200 calories of flour cost $0.07; 200 calories of pasta costs $0.21.

One argument for factory farms has long been "but people will starve without really, really cheap meat, milk and eggs!" I don't think that argument has much merit, One, it helps no one to give them cheap contaminated food. Two, those are not the foods people who have no money are going to eat. Fresh eggs are a luxury if your goal is survival.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I am merely commenting on the unfathomable quantity of wasted food when this really doesn't have to be a total loss.

indeed, and the SARS fears lead to millions of chickens being killed (and then what happened to the bodies?)

But short of a recall, what do you do? Telling everyone just to keep them and cook them doesn't live the egg vendor much incentive to fix the problem. The worst case was that peanut butter seller who willfully killed customers.

[1969912 0]

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am i wrong in thinking that the salmonella isnt actually IN the eggs at all but on the outside of the shells and even if your egg is contaminated if you take a few basic precautions you are still at no risk? or is it actually inside the egg?

Yes, it is inside of the eggs. In this case, anyway.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[muff528 3]

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>No matter how mechanized the process gets you still need a chicken to
>squat and lay an egg.

Agreed. And there are a great many ways to do that. Some leave chickens prone to infection and eggs prone to salmonella exposure. Best to avoid those ways IMO.

>Also, I was not talking about someone scarfing down a couple of
>"extra" eggs before bed. I was referring to people who might not have had
>anything else.

If you're referring to problems with starvation, you can get 200 calories worth of eggs for $0.50. 200 calories of flour cost $0.07; 200 calories of pasta costs $0.21.

One argument for factory farms has long been "but people will starve without really, really cheap meat, milk and eggs!" I don't think that argument has much merit, One, it helps no one to give them cheap contaminated food. Two, those are not the foods people who have no money are going to eat. Fresh eggs are a luxury if your goal is survival.

I'm only referring to this particular half billion eggs. I think these eggs were already distributed to stores or warehouses. They could have been passed on to local shelters and aid groups with the understanding or instructions that they will need to be fully cooked. Of course, that brings up the possibility of liability and litigation and..... well, just toss them out and let the hungry find their own food.

[billvon 2,434]

>They could have been passed on to local shelters and aid groups with the
>understanding or instructions that they will need to be fully cooked.

That's basically what they are doing. They're sending them to "breaking plants" which will process them and resell them as something else. They're not saying what right now, but good bets would be pet and animal feed and industrial processes that require protein.

>well, just toss them out and let the hungry find their own food.

They're not "tossing them out." They're selling them to someone else.

[muff528 3]

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>They could have been passed on to local shelters and aid groups with the
>understanding or instructions that they will need to be fully cooked.

That's basically what they are doing. They're sending them to "breaking plants" which will process them and resell them as something else. They're not saying what right now, but good bets would be pet and animal feed and industrial processes that require protein.

>well, just toss them out and let the hungry find their own food.

They're not "tossing them out." They're selling them to someone else.

Well, that answers my original comment about wasting them. They're not being totally wasted after all.

[kallend 1,648]

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I don't think this is a conservative vs liberal thing. Both sides support factory farming, which is where the basic problem comes from.

300,000,000 people (+ a significant number of people in other countries) is a lot of people to feed every day.

If the UK can effectively eliminate the problem of salmonella in eggs, so can the USA. All it needs is the will to do it.

"In 1997, there were 14,771 reported cases in England and Wales of the most common type of the bacteria, a strain known as Salmonella Enteritidis PT4. Vaccine trials began that year, and the next year, egg producers began vaccinating in large numbers.

The number of human illnesses has dropped almost every year since then. Last year, according to data from the Health Protection Agency of England and Wales, there were just 581 cases, a drop of 96 percent from 1997.

“We have pretty much eliminated salmonella as a human problem in the U.K.,” said Amanda Cryer, director of the British Egg Information Service, an industry group.

"The F.D.A. estimates that each year, 142,000 illnesses in the United States are caused by consuming eggs contaminated with the most common type of salmonella. It has said the new rules would cut that by more than half. People who eat bad eggs that have not been cooked thoroughly to kill the bacteria can get diarrhea and cramps. Rare cases can be fatal."

If I'm reading that correctly, it seems that if UK procedures are used then the number of US egg salmonella illnesses will drop to ~70,000 annually. Based on population shouldn't that number be more like ~3000 annually? (This particular outbreak is responsible for ~1400 illnesses before the recall.)

I don't think you read it correctly.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Coreece 190]

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That's basically what they are doing. They're sending them to "breaking plants" which will process them and resell them as something else. They're not saying what right now, but good bets would be pet and animal feed and industrial processes that require protein.

Yet the prices, though still reasonable IMO compared to other nutrition sources, are skyroceting...how convenient.

Rhys could have a field day with this one...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[billvon 2,434]

>Yet the prices, though still reasonable IMO compared to other nutrition
>sources, are skyroceting...how convenient.

Yep. That old economic law called supply and demand.

[Coreece 190]

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>Yet the prices, though still reasonable IMO compared to other nutrition
>sources, are skyroceting...how convenient.

Yep. That old economic law called supply and demand.

Well there many pets in this country...I assume they love eggs.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[muff528 3]

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.............If the UK can effectively eliminate the problem of salmonella in eggs, so can the USA. All it needs is the will to do it.

"In 1997, there were 14,771 reported cases in England and Wales of the most common type of the bacteria, a strain known as Salmonella Enteritidis PT4. Vaccine trials began that year, and the next year, egg producers began vaccinating in large numbers.

The number of human illnesses has dropped almost every year since then. Last year, according to data from the Health Protection Agency of England and Wales, there were just 581 cases, a drop of 96 percent from 1997.

“We have pretty much eliminated salmonella as a human problem in the U.K.,” said Amanda Cryer, director of the British Egg Information Service, an industry group.

"The F.D.A. estimates that each year, 142,000 illnesses in the United States are caused by consuming eggs contaminated with the most common type of salmonella. It has said the new rules would cut that by more than half. People who eat bad eggs that have not been cooked thoroughly to kill the bacteria can get diarrhea and cramps. Rare cases can be fatal."

If I'm reading that correctly, it seems that if UK procedures are used then the number of US egg salmonella illnesses will drop to ~70,000 annually. Based on population shouldn't that number be more like ~3000 annually? (This particular outbreak is responsible for ~1400 illnesses before the recall.)

I don't think you read it correctly.

How should I have read it?

Using vaccines the UK has 581 cases /60M population. US should have only 5x that number with 300M population unless we have other problems that the vaccinations will not fix. I can understand that getting to the same ratio would be more difficult just based on the vastly greater numbers but 70,000 vs. 3000? (Maybe cutting 142,000 by "more than half" means 3000.)

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[timmyfitz 0]

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I don't think this is a conservative vs liberal thing. Both sides support factory farming, which is where the basic problem comes from.

Less government regulation is most definitely a conservative thing, which is why nothing happened during the Bush years.

Who was in the majority in congress for most of those years?




______________________________________________________________________________________________________
1981 to 1988 is 7 years-Kallend (oops, it's actually 8 years Kallend)

The decade of the 80's was from 1980 to 1989. 10 years. If you remove 1980 and 1989 you have 1981 to 1988. 8 years.

[kallend 1,648]

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I don't think this is a conservative vs liberal thing. Both sides support factory farming, which is where the basic problem comes from.

Less government regulation is most definitely a conservative thing, which is why nothing happened during the Bush years.

Who was in the majority in congress for most of those years?

FDA and HSS are part of the administrative branch. If you read the Constitution you'll learn about separation of powers.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[timmyfitz 0]

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I don't think this is a conservative vs liberal thing. Both sides support factory farming, which is where the basic problem comes from.

Less government regulation is most definitely a conservative thing, which is why nothing happened during the Bush years.

Who was in the majority in congress for most of those years?

FDA and HSS are part of the administrative branch. If you read the Constitution you'll learn about separation of powers.

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The mission of FDA is to enforce laws enacted by the U.S. Congress and regulations established by the Agency to protect the consumer's health, safety, and pocketbook.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________
1981 to 1988 is 7 years-Kallend (oops, it's actually 8 years Kallend)

The decade of the 80's was from 1980 to 1989. 10 years. If you remove 1980 and 1989 you have 1981 to 1988. 8 years.

[wmw999 2,149]

Yes, they do enforce the laws enacted by Congress. But the vigor with which they enforce them, and the interpretation of how far they need to go to ensure safety, is generally a function of their current funding, and the enthusiasm of the current administration for enforcement.

IOW, the food safety laws don't change that much from administration to administration. But just as speed law enforcement changes from community to community, regulatory law enforcement changes from administration to administration.

And it's very possible to go too far in either direction. You never get all of the food safe, but if you don't try, you get a whole lot more problems. DeKoster (the current salmonella egg guy) appears to be a real asshole who will go just as far as he can until he's stopped by enforcement.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[happythoughts 0]

Frickin' salmon - going around spreading their diseases.

[Amazon 7]

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Frickin' salmon - going around spreading their diseases.

Hey if the chickens are getting salmonella... be sure to cook all your salmon thouroughly, to prevent an outbreak of chickenella.

That sashimi could be tainted.

[muff528 3]

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Frickin' salmon - going around spreading their diseases.

Hey if the chickens are getting salmonella... be sure to cook all your salmon thouroughly, to prevent an outbreak of chickenella.

That sashimi could be tainted.

All y'all are making me hungry.. I'm going over to Sam & Ella's Diner fer some lunch.

[rushmc 18]

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I am merely commenting on the unfathomable quantity of wasted food when this really doesn't have to be a total loss.

Agreed.

Though, surely you understand it is natural for one to want nothing to even be considered for loss in the first place.

This is not a "chicken or the egg" scenario, but a solvable equation that can either be prevented or dealt with as a result. I would rather prevent it in the future.

The eggs are being sent to make other things
very few will be destroyed
As for the cause, it is being reported here in Iowa today that the feed was contaminated

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,434]

>The eggs are being sent to make other things

Yep. Animal and pet food is a common usage, as is industrial proteins for scientific usage.

>As for the cause, it is being reported here in Iowa today that the feed was
>contaminated . . .

See above for a possible cause of that.

[rushmc 18]

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>The eggs are being sent to make other things

Yep. Animal and pet food is a common usage, as is industrial proteins for scientific usage.

>As for the cause, it is being reported here in Iowa today that the feed was
>contaminated . . .

See above for a possible cause of that.

going to things like mayanaise and pan cake batter is where most of it is goning

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln