TrophyHusband 0 #1 June 22, 2010 first, i've got to say that i have a real problem with an active duty general making derogetory statements in an interview about the administration. that kind of thing just isn't appropriate and sets a terrible example for the troops. obama now has quite a delema. he pretty much has to fire mcchrystal, but if he does, mcchrystal will retire and then be free to do a lot of talking and i'm pretty sure obama doesn't want that. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37839756/ns/politics-white_house/ "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #2 June 22, 2010 so how long before they start screaming he's a racist/traitor/hater? (a general should know better than to make public comments about the pres - no matter what the real situation is) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #3 June 22, 2010 Quotefirst, i've got to say that i have a real problem with an active duty general making derogetory statements in an interview about the administration. that kind of thing just isn't appropriate and sets a terrible example for the troops. obama now has quite a delema. he pretty much has to fire mcchrystal, but if he does, mcchrystal will retire and then be free to do a lot of talking and i'm pretty sure obama doesn't want that. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37839756/ns/politics-white_house/ First, being fired won't mean he's out of the Army. He won't even lose a star. He will however, lose his command and start riding a desk. Gen. McChrystal is saying what anyone who's been paying attention essentially already knew. But UCMJ does have specific provisions about this. I don't know him. I understand that he is largely popular with the troops despite strict ROE. President Obama has the added pressure in that McChrystal was his appointment. Though we all knew the Presidents decision making process for the surge was infuriating. Some additional perspective: Less than 24 hours after the Rolling Stone article, McChrystal is summoned to return to DC to meet the President's. It took 60-something days for him to meet with management of BP.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #4 June 22, 2010 QuoteLess than 24 hours after the Rolling Stone article, McChrystal is summoned to return to DC to meet the President. It took 60-something days for him to meet with management of BP. finally, someone's ass to kick ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #5 June 22, 2010 One more thing: President Obama has no choice but to remove Gen. McChrystal from command in Afghanistan. But doing so has the unfortunate effect of disturbing the surge strategy before all additional boots are on the ground.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 June 22, 2010 QuotePresident Obama has no choice but to remove Gen. McChrystal from command in Afghanistan. no he doesn't - let's see what happens ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #7 June 22, 2010 Quote Quote Less than 24 hours after the Rolling Stone article, McChrystal is summoned to return to DC to meet the President. It took 60-something days for him to meet with management of BP. finally, someone's ass to kick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 June 22, 2010 QuoteQuotePresident Obama has no choice but to remove Gen. McChrystal from command in Afghanistan. no he doesn't - let's see what happens I will cede that absolute point. But politically speaking I don't see anothe choice. The culture is not just that of the general. It's his staff too. It's hitting at the President, VP, NSA, and two US Senators. Practically speaking, sure, the President can keep him on. Having said that, I'm quite surprised by Senator Kerry's comments a few minutes ago.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #9 June 22, 2010 Max, I think if the GEN is removed he is done. He will retire as he would not get a nomination for the COS of the Army or even Vice, he would not be welcomed to the Joint Staff either. It would be a "Step Down" for him to go to TRADOC, FORSCOM, USASOC etc as he is at a Joint Command right now. So I think losing this job ends his Active Career. Kind of like what happened with GEN Clark. But it is just my opinion after watching things like this from the inside for a few years. Same place you saw this stuff. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #10 June 22, 2010 QuoteQuotePresident Obama has no choice but to remove Gen. McChrystal from command in Afghanistan. no he doesn't - let's see what happens He's the Commander In Chief. He needs to act like it in this case. I don't know what the administrative discipline options are but this can't pass with just a stern talking to and a public apology.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #11 June 22, 2010 Quote First, being fired won't mean he's out of the Army. He won't even lose a star. He will however, lose his command and start riding a desk. true, but he's got enough time in to put in his papers, take his terminal leave (a man like him probably has months of it) and retire.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 June 22, 2010 QuoteHe's the Commander In Chief. He needs to act like it in this case. seriously, why start now? the most strength he's shown in any scenario so far is empty tough talk that was just a source of mockery ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #13 June 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteHe's the Commander In Chief. He needs to act like it in this case. seriously, why start now? the most strength he's shown in any scenario so far is empty tough talk that was just a source of mockery don't get me wrong... I'm not assuming he will step up to the plate and do his job wrt this. Just stating the obvious.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 June 22, 2010 here's the other thing - 1 - is firing the general "doing his job"? 2 - or is 'his job' earning the respect of his leaders? or both - but I don't think #1 will gain him #2 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #15 June 22, 2010 it needs to be more than a stern talking to. I don't know the administrative options available for punishment (wait... all this was in the post you replied to earlier). yeah... I considered whether firing him would do more harm than keeping him around. I don't have all that info. THAT is why I said what I did.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MajorDad 0 #16 June 22, 2010 Unless the reporter badly represented what the General and the members of his staff said, the President (through the chain of command) has to remove the general from his command. All military officers are taught in Basic that for the military system to function (among other things), loyalty must flow both up and down the chain of command, with priority to flowing up the chain of command. Truman fired MacArthur when he forgot this principle. Looks like a 4 Star Position has opened up.... Sad way to end a career... Blue Ones, Major Dad CSPA D-579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maxmadmax 8 #17 June 22, 2010 Kickin' some ass now Obama? Let's see. Obama, a paper hanger, community organizer and shake down artist from Chicago, neophyte senator and makes Jimmy Carter look good. vs. McChrystal:Commander, International Security Assistance Force/ Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan United States Army SOURCE OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE: USMA EDUCATIONAL DEGREES United States Military Academy – BS – No Major United States Naval War College – MA – National Security and Strategic Studies Salve Regina University – MS – International Relations MILITARY SCHOOLS ATTENDED Infantry Officer Basic and Advanced Courses United States Naval Command and Staff College Senior Service College Fellowship Harvard University FOREIGN LANGUAGES Spanish PROMOTIONS DATE OF APPOINTMENT 2LT 2 Jun 76 1LT 2 Jun 78 CPT 1 Aug 80 MAJ 1 Jul 87 LTC 1 Sep 92 COL 1 Sep 96 BG 1 Jan 01 MG 1 May 04 LTG 16 Feb 06 GEN 11 Jun 09 FROM TO ASSIGNMENT Nov 76 Feb 78 Weapons Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Feb 78 Jul 78 Rifle Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Jul 78 Nov 78 Executive Officer, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Nov 78 Apr 79 Student, Special Forces Officer Course, Special Forces School, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Apr 79 Jun 80 Commander, Detachment A, A Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group (Airborne), Fort Bragg, North Carolina Jun 80 Feb 81 Student, Infantry Officer Advanced Course, United States Army Infantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia Feb 81 Mar 82 S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support GroupJoint Security Area, Korea Mar 82 Nov 82 Training Officer, Directorate of Plans and Training, A Company, Headquarters Command, Fort Stewart, Georgia Nov 82 Sep 84 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia Sep 84 Sep 85 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia Sep 85 Jan 86 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia Jan 86 May 87 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia May 87 Apr 88 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia Apr 88 Jun 89 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia Jun 89 Jun 90 Student, Command and Staff Course, United States Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island Jun 90 Apr 93 Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia Apr 93 Nov 94 Commander, 2d Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Nov 94 Jun 96 Commander, 2d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Lewis, Washington Jun 96 Jun 97 Senior Service College Fellowship, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts Jun 97 Aug 99 Commander, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia Aug 99 Jun 00 Military Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, New York, New York Jun 00 Jun 01 Assistant Division Commander (Operations), 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait Jun 01 Jul 02 Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan Jul 02 Sep 03 Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC Sep 03 Feb 06 Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Feb 06 Jun 08 Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina Aug 08 Jun 09 Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC Jun 09 Present Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan SUMMARY OF JOINT ASSIGNMENTS (Date of assignment and rank) S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea (Feb 81-Mar 82, Captain) Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia Jun 90-Apr 93 Major/Lieutenant Colonel) Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 01-Jul 02, Brigadier General) Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Jul 02-Sep 03, Brigadier General) Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Sep 03-Feb 06, Brigadier General/Major General) Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Feb 06-Jun 08, Major General/Lieutenant General) Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Aug 08-Jun 09, Lieutenant General) Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09-Present, General) SUMMARY OF OPERATIONS ASSIGNMENTS DATE GRADE Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia (Jun 90-Mar 91, Major) Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait (Apr 01-Jun 01, Brigadier General) Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (May 02-Jul 02, Brigadier General) Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09- Present, General) US DECORATIONS AND BADGES Defense Distinguished Service Medal Defense Superior Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster) Legion of Merit (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters) Bronze Star Medal Defense Meritorious Service Medal Meritorious Service Medal (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters) Army Commendation Medal Army Achievement Medal Expert Infantryman Badge Master Parachutist Badge Ranger Tab Special Forces Tab Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge I guess that Obama gets his ass kicked in a fair fight. But Mc is screwed because he hurt Obama's feelings. Mc will probably run for office. Don't go away mad....just go away! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #18 June 22, 2010 Um, you forgot one job on Obama's resume: President of the United States. Trumps the long list under McChrystal's name every time. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #19 June 22, 2010 yup.... goes to show it's not what you do, but who you know. It's the Chicago way.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #20 June 22, 2010 You're right, McChrystal has a brilliant and stellar resume, career and qualifications. So did Gen. Douglas MacArthur, arguably the most brilliant general officer in the history of the United States military. He mouthed off insubordinately about the President, too. He, too, was considered by many to be "indispensable" to the mission. And he, too, deserved the firing he got. No general officer of the United States is too important that he may openly piss on the leadership of the civilian government that commands him. It was right, and necessary, to fire MacArthur in 1951, and McChrystal should be fired now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #21 June 22, 2010 QuoteYou're right, McChrystal has a brilliant and stellar resume, career and qualifications. So did Gen. Douglas MacArthur, arguably the most brilliant general officer in the history of the United States military. He mouthed off insubordinately about the President, too. He, too, was considered by many to be "indispensable" to the mission. And he, too, deserved the firing he got. No general officer of the United States is too important that he may openly piss on the leadership of the civilian government that commands him. It was right, and necessary, to fire MacArthur in 1951, and McChrystal should be fired now. Even so. Even if the firing happens. Even if the response to this is punishment. It doesn't mean he was wrong.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #22 June 22, 2010 QuoteEven so. Even if the firing happens. Even if the response to this is punishment. It doesn't mean he was wrong. well, he can be right, and still be fired - and both would be correct funny how stuff works out ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #23 June 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteYou're right, McChrystal has a brilliant and stellar resume, career and qualifications. So did Gen. Douglas MacArthur, arguably the most brilliant general officer in the history of the United States military. He mouthed off insubordinately about the President, too. He, too, was considered by many to be "indispensable" to the mission. And he, too, deserved the firing he got. No general officer of the United States is too important that he may openly piss on the leadership of the civilian government that commands him. It was right, and necessary, to fire MacArthur in 1951, and McChrystal should be fired now. Even so. Even if the firing happens. Even if the response to this is punishment. It doesn't mean he was wrong. In the US (as well as in virtually every other country) the military, especially the career military, is and always has been among the most conservative of society; it's simply natural. Since the turn of the 20th Century, the career military has generally found itself in bitter disagreement with Democratic administrations over damned near everything, foreign and domestic. The temptation to criticize is almost unbearable. Nonetheless, command protocol demands that individual members of the military must STFU, at least in public. When they give in to this temptation, it simply cannot be tolerated. This was made clear re: MacArthur in 1951, and MUST be reinforced re: McChrystal now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #24 June 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou're right, McChrystal has a brilliant and stellar resume, career and qualifications. So did Gen. Douglas MacArthur, arguably the most brilliant general officer in the history of the United States military. He mouthed off insubordinately about the President, too. He, too, was considered by many to be "indispensable" to the mission. And he, too, deserved the firing he got. No general officer of the United States is too important that he may openly piss on the leadership of the civilian government that commands him. It was right, and necessary, to fire MacArthur in 1951, and McChrystal should be fired now. Even so. Even if the firing happens. Even if the response to this is punishment. It doesn't mean he was wrong. In the US (as well as in virtually every other country) the military, especially the career military, is and always has been among the most conservative of society; it's simply natural. Since the turn of the 20th Century, the career military has generally found itself in bitter disagreement with Democratic administrations over damned near everything, foreign and domestic. The temptation to criticize is almost unbearable. Nonetheless, command protocol demands that individual members of the military must STFU, at least in public. When they give in to this temptation, it simply cannot be tolerated. This was made clear re: MacArthur in 1951, and MUST be reinforced re: McChrystal now. I'm not disagreeing with you that it has to happen. I hope it does. STILL it doesn't mean that his comments were incorrect or wrong, just poorly timed and placed. I hope it happens to show what a lout this president is with regards to military command.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #25 June 22, 2010 And the General has been elected to which office again?????? RIGHT.. not a thing. Our government is NOT a military dictatorship.. although I am sure some of the people here would be quite happy with a Theocratic government that was also run by the military. ONWARD CHRISTIANS SOLDIERS....Marching as to war, With the cross of Jesus Going on before ALL HAIL to the American Taliban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
