Blockade runners achieve Martyrdom as desired.

[Amazon 7]

Let the deflowering begin. Christal... found it... comment?????

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Confession: Gaza flotilla participants PLANNED to attack Israel; wanted to martyr themselves for jihadposted at 7:27 pm on June 1, 2010 by Cassy Fiano
My Newsreal co-blogger David Swindle has a rather illuminating video up today. The video aired on Hamas TV the day before the confrontation at sea, and in it, a university lecturer states that the people on board were going to use resistance against the zionists, and wanted to become martyrs.

Peaceful protestors,,,,, NOT


According to Palestinian Media Watch, the man in the video is Dr. Abd Al-Fatah Shayyeq Naaman, lecturer in Shari’ah law at a university in Yemen.
So several days before the Gaza flotilla incident occured, the flotilla commander was saying that he was planning on a confrontation and that they were seeking martyrdom. It seems an easy conclusion to reach that the people aboard the flotilla knew exactly what they were doing, were counting on their boat being boarded, that they wanted to provoke the IDF soldiers into violence, and that there was nothing humanitarian about their mission at all.
Considering the multiple videos the IDF released showing how their soldiers were ambushed, you’d think this would be an open-shut case. Once you add in the apparent premeditation of violence, how could anyone continue to blame Israel for this? (That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.)
The IDF’s account of what happen continues to hold. They thought they were going to be facing peace activists bringing humanitarian aid. It couldn’t have been further from reality, and they were ambushed as soon as they set foot on board. The soldiers did everything they could to avoid using lethal force, but were given no choice.

[sundevil777 94]

We don't agree on a lot of things, but on this...we are together.

How could somebody still blame Israel? Because their extremism is due to the very existence of Israel of course.

Sadat had a true change of heart, more like him are needed on the Arab side.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[yourmomma 0]

Nobody who pay's attention can claim that the Palestinians are innocent victims. That being said the Israelis have a propensity for bringing guns to knife fights. I understand they are surrounded by people who want nothing more than to destroy Israel; while simultaneously loathing the thought of allowing palestinians into there own country's. That doesn't justify their actions carte blanch.

[shropshire 0]

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Nobody who pay's attention can claim that the Palestinians are innocent victims.

So, are there no innocent Palestinians or are they all guilty by association?

How many generalisations could you get in one post?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

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Nobody who pay's attention can claim that the Palestinians are innocent victims.

So, are there no innocent Palestinians or are they all guilty by association?

How many generalisations could you get in one post?

I am beginning to think its DAMN few who are.... indoctrination at a VERY early age to use children as combatants is a war crime....How many war crimes can you spot

[kelpdiver 2]

thanks for finding that.

I thought I might be reaching with the martyrdom thoughts yesterday, but the more I think about it, the more I question the IDF for not expecting the same.

Let the spinning commence, both here and in the world press.

[turtlespeed 212]

There was a thread a while back about some protesters intending violence and the national guard stepped up and gave it to them.

Sounds pretty familiar.

Except the blame placement thing.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[remibond 0]

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Nobody who pay's attention can claim that the Palestinians are innocent victims.

So, are there no innocent Palestinians or are they all guilty by association?

How many generalisations could you get in one post?

I am beginning to think its DAMN few who are.... indoctrination at a VERY early age to use children as combatants is a war crime....How many war crimes can you spot

Well that's pretty fucked up, but a human shield is not the same as a willing combatant

[remibond 0]

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There was a thread a while back about some protesters intending violence and the national guard stepped up and gave it to them.

Sounds pretty familiar.

Except the blame placement thing.

I didn't realise the National Guard was at war with U.S civilians.

[futuredivot 0]

This has been up for awhile yet certain posters who were oh so active in Dreamdancer's thread are conspicuously absent here.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Amazon 7]

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This has been up for awhile yet certain posters who were oh so active in Dreamdancer's thread are conspicuously absent here.

You expected otherwise???????

[Darius11 12]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2Iy8


I think Barney Frank had the right idea.

“trying to argue with you is like trying to argue with a dining room table”




What’s the point when you guys still cant answer the questions.

What rules does Israel have to abide by?

You know why you can not answer it because your weapon has always been hypocrisy.
You mention international law when it is convenient, and excuse it when it shows Israel in a bad light.

It is impossible to have a logical conversation with anyone who has chosen a side regardless of facts.

It is as simple as this.

International waters, under the Turkish flag. If you are having a problem grasping those laws I don’t see the point of arguing any thing more complicated with any of you.

Simply put your position is I will support Israel no matter what and then attempted to change your standards. what you consider wrong or right solely depends on who is committing the act and not the act it self.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Kennedy 0]

Is Gaza a country?

Does Israel have the right to exist without attack?

Does Israel have the right to blockade Gaza?
(be careful, they were'nt the only one involved)

Do flagged vessels have the right to stop other vessels in international waters after making their identity and intentions clear?
(as in "US Coast Guard, here to search for drugs" or "IDF, here to enforce a blockade" as opposed to "Somali pirates, here to steal your stuff")

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[billvon 2,476]

>Do flagged vessels have the right to stop other vessels in
>international waters after making their identity and intentions clear?

Do you feel that a North Korean patrol boat should have a right to stop and board a US military transport? If the US vessel refuses, does the North Korean patrol boat have the right to use deadly force to enforce compliance?

[futuredivot 0]

Intending to force a confrontation, they did. Willing to be martyred, they were-sounds like a win for the idiots you tout.

Being passionate doesn't make you right and ignoring facts that don't suit you doesn't change reality. No hypocrisy here-I'll feel the same way and support the same position tomorrow. I'm just embarrassed that the US doesn't do as well protecting our borders.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Amazon 7]

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>Do flagged vessels have the right to stop other vessels in
>international waters after making their identity and intentions clear?

Do you feel that a North Korean patrol boat should have a right to stop and board a US military transport? If the US vessel refuses, does the North Korean patrol boat have the right to use deadly force to enforce compliance?

They have before

[kelpdiver 2]

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There was a thread a while back about some protesters intending violence and the national guard stepped up and gave it to them.

Sounds pretty familiar.

Except the blame placement thing.

Big difference in the level of danger that the guardsman were in. Certainly they were at risk from the people hundreds of yards away who were walking along the path of fire.

Are you really trying to compare this to Kent State?

[Darius11 12]

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Intending to force a confrontation,

Last I checked sailing in international waters was not "intending to force a confrontation". Now off course any one who knows Israels history might have assumed that they would use violence. However past violent behavior should not be used as an excuse for current violent behavior.

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Being passionate doesn't make you right

Its not such an emotional issue for me, some of the PMs I have received from dz.comers who are also member of the Jewish faith prove to me how emotional and irrational some of you are on this issue.
The only reason they want to excuse Israelis behavior is simply because they share a faith.

I am not Arab not Palestinian and don’t even see this conflict as any thing more then a land dispute. I think religion is simply used to motivate the weak minded on both sides.

Back the point
Intending to force a confrontation would have been if they came in Israeli waters not staying 63 miles (according to the captain) out of Israeli waters.

I agree that they knew Israel would most likely act in a violent manner however I don’t see that as excusing Israel for its violence or breaking of international law.

Now if they are at war with Turkey then that another issue but last I checked they were not.


Also you have to take in too consideration that the people claiming that humanitarian aid is going trough without an issue are the enemies of the very people they claim to give aid too.

The same people who did not allow clothes or shoes to be sent.

For me the emotions that I feel how any of you could easily excuse such behavior simply because it is being done to Arabs by Jews, and if it was Done to Jews by Arabs you would all be in an outrage.

That’s the hypocrisy that gets my emotions going, I truly can not understand that way of thinking.

And over and over example after example most of you show the same flaw. You do not judge the action you judge dependent on who is committing the action.


As I said before I don’t see the Palestinians as angels who have done no wrong even though some you seem to wish to put me in the black or white shelf in you minds. However this incident Israel fucked up and it cost lives.
Now you might want to think the activists were all Jew haters (that would make things easier for many of you) but I bet most valued humane life, and saw a humanitarian disaster and wanted to help.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[futuredivot 0]

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I...don’t even see this conflict as any thing more then a land dispute.

So your failure to understand the situation subjects us to pages upon pages of YOUR OPINON presented as fact?

That explains a lot-thanks.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[pbwing 0]

Very well said Darius...

[falxori 0]

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What rules does Israel have to abide by?

you need to be careful with your assumptions about international law.

When a state of was exists, a naval blockade is legal by international law. and yes, it can also include international waters (it cannot block access to another nuetral country though).
such a blockade can be enforced and any ship (even civilian) can be boarded if the existance of a blockade is well published, the intention of the ship to run the blockade is known and the ship has been warned.
all of these terms are met.
this doesn't mean that this wasn't a poor PR move on Israel's part but it was damned if it did and damned if it didn't

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[kallend 1,683]

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this doesn't mean that this wasn't a poor PR move on Israel's part

Yes, it was.

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but it was damned if it did and damned if it didn't

No, Netanyahu's intransigence over the entire policy was quite amenable to change.

On the whole Israel has gone from being a strategic asset during the cold war to being a liability now.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[falxori 0]

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Last I checked sailing in international waters was not "intending to force a confrontation"

no. but saying on video that they are is.
as seen in the OP video
Peaceful activists wouldn't have armed themselves with knives slingshots and metal clubs.

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Also you have to take in too consideration that the people claiming that humanitarian aid is going trough without an issue are the enemies of the very people they claim to give aid too

Once again you ignore facts. Israel said it will deliver the supplies after it has been inspected and they refused. moreover, all of the supplies have been sent to Gaza where its stuck at the border crossing because Hamas wouldn't accept it.
another proof that delivering the supplies was not the main issue here. that could have been done peacefully like its being done daily.

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I bet most valued humane life, and saw a humanitarian disaster and wanted to help

I'm sure some did and they were fooled by the blood seeking organizers. again, there was a simple way to deliver aid without violence. They wanted a media circus and unfortunately Israel was stupid enough to give it to them.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[falxori 0]

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On the whole Israel has gone from being a strategic asset during the cold war to being a liability now.

Use them when you need them and dump them the morning after, huh?

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[futuredivot 0]

While we're talking about international law, this is from the San Remo manual at http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce

You have section 3, which talks about exempt vessels,

SECTION III : ENEMY VESSELS AND AIRCRAFT EXEMPT FROM ATTACK

Classes of vessels exempt from attack

47. The following classes of enemy vessels are exempt from attack:

(a) hospital ships;
(b) small craft used for coastal rescue operations and other medical transports;
(c) vessels granted safe conduct by agreement between the belligerent parties including:
(i) cartel vessels, e.g., vessels designated for and engaged in the transport of prisoners of war;
(ii) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations;
(d) vessels engaged in transporting cultural property under special protection;
(e) passenger vessels when engaged only in carrying civilian passengers;
(f) vessels charged with religious, non-military scientifc or philanthropic missions, vessels collecting scientific data of likely military applications are not protected;
(g) small coastal fishing vessels and small boats engaged in local coastal trade, but they are subject to the regulations of a belligerent naval commander operating in the area and to inspection;
(h) vessels designated or adapted exclusively for responding to pollution incidents in the marine environment;
(i) vessels which have surrendered;
(j) life rafts and life boats.
Then, there's the exemptions:

Conditions of exemption

48. Vessels listed in paragraph 47 are exempt from attack only if they:

(a) are innocently employed in their normal role;
(b) submit to identification and inspection when required; and
(c) do not intentionally hamper the movement of combatants and obey orders to stop or move out of the way when required.

I would submit that people on the vessel talking about how they were 'ready to be martyrs' and attacking the legitimate boarders aren't "innocently employed in their normal role".
They also didn't "submit to identification and inspection when required"

You are only as strong as the prey you devour