Shocking Black & Latino Imprisonment Rates the Result of Racist, Punitive Impulse

[kelpdiver 2]

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In my quick search I didn't find statistics for overall crime, so I posted what I did find.

murder is better covered than most crime, and nearly always reported. Since part of the claim here is that white crime isn't prosecuted or even known about, then there certainly could be an inaccurate result in looking at the convicted. In particular, cops are more likely to patrol where there is a known issue, so they are more likely to observe a crime committed there than in the neighborhoods of Pacific Palisades.

Of course, DD could just go back to last week's unemployment/racism thread where many of the same factors apply. Minorities who drop out of high school limit their job opportunities and make it more likely that they will commit criminal activity instead.

[Nightingale 0]

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So you're complaining that they're doing illegal drugs, getting caught, and having to actually serve their time for breaking the law?

Maybe they should just try not doing illegal drugs.

whites use drugs just as much as anyone else - why aren't they imprisoned at the same rate?

Because white offenders are more likely to acquire their drugs differently than black offenders... Police focus "on inner city areas where drug use and sales are more likely to take place in open-air drug markets" (source: drugpolicy.org)... so, minorities are more likely to use methods to acquire their drugs that draw the attention of police. A person-to-person marijuana or meth transaction in a suburban area is far less likely to attract attention.

Also, white offenders are more likely to use powder cocaine rather than "crack" cocaine, and "five grams of crack cocaine (about a thimble full) yields a five year mandatory minimum sentence, while it takes 500 grams of powder cocaine to trigger the same five year sentence." (drugpolicy.org). So, the types of drugs that white offenders typically abuse carry shorter sentences The justification for this is typically that some types of drugs contribute to urban blight, such as crack cocaine or meth, while others less so (prescription drugs, marijuana, powder cocaine). I can't say how accurate that assessment is.

The police tend to focus their attention on high crime areas, whether those crimes are drugs, graffiti, burglaries, rapes, or murders. A high crime area tends to be high in most/all of these crimes, and it also tends to be a place with a high population of immigrants or minorities, largely due to the lower cost of living. So, while suburban Orange County may have as much of a drug problem on paper as inner city LA, law enforcement is focusing on inner city LA because drugs are not the only crime happening there. (in parts of OC, graffiti makes the news!)

Personally, I think we should just legalize the stuff and stop arresting people for being stupid. Plus, we could use the tax dollars.

[Shotgun 1]

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You've admitted that it's OK that there is a huge bias towards arresting men over women, and you've admitted that you think that that's due to the inherent criminality of men (i.e. they're not made of "sugar and spice" or some other nonsense.) Looks like you get pretty defensive when other people apply exactly the same rationale to other groups. Might want to examine your logic.

Men vs. Women - Sexism in our country has historically targeted women over men. Men make up the larger prison population, and they were probably sent there by more men than women. This doesn't necessarily mean that sexism does not exist in the system, but it seems less likely.

Whites vs. Non-whites - Racism in our country has historically targeted non-whites over whites. Non-whites make up the larger prison population, and they were probably sent there by more whites than non-whites. This doesn't necessarily mean that racism does exist in the system, but it seems more likely.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>my conclusion is that you should do a study of peoples heads (and
>their bumps) compared to their criminality . ..

That's easy. People who are arrested will have more bumps on their heads, on average, than people who aren't arrested.

And of course that has absolutely nothing to do with the predictive ability of bumps on their heads, but rather the fact that people who get arrested get hit over the head more often. Watch any bar fight if you doubt this.

But back to the issue:

You've admitted that it's OK that there is a huge bias towards arresting men over women, and you've admitted that you think that that's due to the inherent criminality of men (i.e. they're not made of "sugar and spice" or some other nonsense.) Looks like you get pretty defensive when other people apply exactly the same rationale to other groups. Might want to examine your logic.

i've 'admitted' that men are more criminal than women. that is why more are in prison. you will find this a recurrent theme in human history. blacks, however are not more criminal than whites - so what is distorting the prison figures?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,400]

>i've 'admitted' that men are more criminal than women. . . . blacks,
>however are not more criminal than whites

Why is "sexism" more acceptable than "racism" as an excuse?

[dreamdancer 0]

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>i've 'admitted' that men are more criminal than women. . . . blacks,
>however are not more criminal than whites

Why is "sexism" more acceptable than "racism" as an excuse?

why are you asking semantically loopy questions
(are you saying that women are just as criminal as men - i don't think it's sexist to admit that there are differences between the sexes)

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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So you're complaining that they're doing illegal drugs, getting caught, and having to actually serve their time for breaking the law?

Maybe they should just try not doing illegal drugs.

whites use drugs just as much as anyone else - why aren't they imprisoned at the same rate?

Because white offenders are more likely to acquire their drugs differently than black offenders... Police focus "on inner city areas where drug use and sales are more likely to take place in open-air drug markets" (source: drugpolicy.org)... so, minorities are more likely to use methods to acquire their drugs that draw the attention of police. A person-to-person marijuana or meth transaction in a suburban area is far less likely to attract attention.

Also, white offenders are more likely to use powder cocaine rather than "crack" cocaine, and "five grams of crack cocaine (about a thimble full) yields a five year mandatory minimum sentence, while it takes 500 grams of powder cocaine to trigger the same five year sentence." (drugpolicy.org). So, the types of drugs that white offenders typically abuse carry shorter sentences The justification for this is typically that some types of drugs contribute to urban blight, such as crack cocaine or meth, while others less so (prescription drugs, marijuana, powder cocaine). I can't say how accurate that assessment is.

The police tend to focus their attention on high crime areas, whether those crimes are drugs, graffiti, burglaries, rapes, or murders. A high crime area tends to be high in most/all of these crimes, and it also tends to be a place with a high population of immigrants or minorities, largely due to the lower cost of living. So, while suburban Orange County may have as much of a drug problem on paper as inner city LA, law enforcement is focusing on inner city LA because drugs are not the only crime happening there. (in parts of OC, graffiti makes the news!)

Personally, I think we should just legalize the stuff and stop arresting people for being stupid. Plus, we could use the tax dollars.

one could argue that by selective use of social laws - which prioritise where the police focus their attention a 'racial' outcome is attained.

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,400]

>i don't think it's sexist to admit that there are differences between the sexes

Ding ding ding! You've got it! It is not sexist to admit that there are difference between sexes - nor is it racist to admit that there are differences between races.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>i don't think it's sexist to admit that there are differences between the sexes

Ding ding ding! You've got it! It is not sexist to admit that there are difference between sexes - nor is it racist to admit that there are differences between races.

ok - what is the difference between a white man and a black man?

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[kelpdiver 2]

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Also, white offenders are more likely to use powder cocaine rather than "crack" cocaine, and "five grams of crack cocaine (about a thimble full) yields a five year mandatory minimum sentence, while it takes 500 grams of powder cocaine to trigger the same five year sentence." (drugpolicy.org). So, the types of drugs that white offenders typically abuse carry shorter sentences The justification for this is typically that some types of drugs contribute to urban blight, such as crack cocaine or meth, while others less so (prescription drugs, marijuana, powder cocaine). I can't say how accurate that assessment is.

This distinction is fair game for cries of racism. Crack is cheap and bought by the poorer addicts. Cocaine is the drug for the wealthy, or at least it was. Is it still prevalent?

[beowulf 1]

Well obviously blacks are more criminal. Your thread has made that pretty clear!

[Bolas 5]

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one could argue that by selective use of social laws - which prioritise where the police focus their attention a 'racial' outcome is attained.

And one could argue when one has limited funds they concentrate their effort in the areas where they can deter the most crime.

It's basic triage. If you have 5 people with broken legs in the ER and then a multiple gunshot wound victim comes in, they are going to treat that person first, regardless if sex, color, income, social status, etc.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[rehmwa 2]

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one could argue that by selective use of social laws - which prioritise where the police focus their attention a 'racial' outcome is attained.

so how do you intend to change the nature of the community to not require more police presence?

if you move police presence out of the urban and into the suburbs, won't you then cry 'racism' because they are removing protection from the urban areas?

police go where the crime is

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rstanley0312 0]

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>my conclusion is that you should do a study of peoples heads (and
>their bumps) compared to their criminality . ..

That's easy. People who are arrested will have more bumps on their heads, on average, than people who aren't arrested.

And of course that has absolutely nothing to do with the predictive ability of bumps on their heads, but rather the fact that people who get arrested get hit over the head more often. Watch any bar fight if you doubt this.

But back to the issue:

You've admitted that it's OK that there is a huge bias towards arresting men over women, and you've admitted that you think that that's due to the inherent criminality of men (i.e. they're not made of "sugar and spice" or some other nonsense.) Looks like you get pretty defensive when other people apply exactly the same rationale to other groups. Might want to examine your logic.

i've 'admitted' that men are more criminal than women. that is why more are in prison. you will find this a recurrent theme in human history. blacks, however are not more criminal than whites - so what is distorting the prison figures?

I just have to say it...... Bill has literally destroyed you on this debate and holy shit is it entertaining!

I'm still waiting for you to acknowledge many of his points instead of just tip toeing around them.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[rhaig 0]

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one could argue that by selective use of social laws - which prioritise where the police focus their attention a 'racial' outcome is attained.

though the observed effect of the described outcome appears to be racism, it's really geographical in nature.

So then ask how to police determine where to focus? Maybe they all sit in the mayor's office and say "let's go arrest us some black-folk!" Is that what you think?? NO!! they focus on the high crime areas. Why do those areas (with disproportionately more non-whites) experience more crime? I don't know. There are studies that show that people that grow up with violence and crime tend to repeat those behaviors. That might be one factor.

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

oh he's just trolling stirring shit. that's all.

--
Rob

[dreamdancer 0]

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oh he's just trolling stirring shit. that's all.

my friendly neighbourhood stalker is back

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,400]

>ok - what is the difference between a white man and a black man?

Let's see -

Physiologically blacks (i.e. African-Americans) tend to have:

less body fat
smaller ribcages
denser skeletal systems
greater musculature in the legs
higher testosterone levels

Genetically blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, which also ironically confers resistance to malaria. Their genetic makeup means they are less responsive to ACE inhibitors, which is why BiDil (a drug used to treat congestive heart failure) is used to treat African-Americans who suffer from CHF, but not whites who suffer from the same disease. (those horrible racist doctors)

Now let's see if you can list the differences between a white man and a white woman! Your job will be considerably easier.

[dreamdancer 0]

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>ok - what is the difference between a white man and a black man?

Let's see -

Physiologically blacks (i.e. African-Americans) tend to have:

less body fat
smaller ribcages
denser skeletal systems
greater musculature in the legs
higher testosterone levels

Genetically blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, which also ironically confers resistance to malaria. Their genetic makeup means they are less responsive to ACE inhibitors, which is why BiDil (a drug used to treat congestive heart failure) is used to treat African-Americans who suffer from CHF, but not whites who suffer from the same disease. (those horrible racist doctors)

Now let's see if you can list the differences between a white man and a white woman! Your job will be considerably easier.

those things are group 'tend to' minor details. if i take a black man and 'whiten' him up - or a white man and 'darken' him up - you won't be able to tell the difference. try that with a man and a woman

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[billvon 2,400]

> try that with a man and a woman

Oh, it's been tried - and you couldn't tell, either.

[dreamdancer 0]

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> try that with a man and a woman

Oh, it's been tried - and you couldn't tell, either.

you're doing something wrong then

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[rhaig 0]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/126685/she_or_he_test/

--
Rob

[futuredivot 0]

here's another chance to respond since you missed it last time

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Not according to this.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/...nt/homicide/race.cfm
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More likely has more to do with committing fucking crimes, just my guess.

Is there any reason you're ignoring beowulf's post?

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[timmyfitz 0]

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>it's only in us society that blacks are found to be '3.4' times more criminal
>than whites.

In the UK, there are 18 times as many blacks as whites (on a population basis) in jails.

In South Africa, 70% of the prison population is black and 4% is white. On a population basis, that means blacks are twice as likely to be imprisoned than whites.

Looks like it's as common as the gender bias. Want to try again?

do you also think criminality has something to with the shape of the criminals' heads?

(as well as their colour)

Don't give DD any facts that clearly dispute his on going rant. He will just change the direction of the subject.

[skygirl1 1]

Bullshit, I worked with plenty of lifers that are WHITE!!
I get so sick of this bullshit of excuses for inmates. Why don't you go spend a day with WHITE baby rapers, murders and such. You will find that the criminal mind is just that and it does not matter what color you are.
You wake up

" Mean people SUCK!"