8.33 Billion for Nuke plants

[PhreeZone 15]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/story/1483852.html

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Obama announces loans to build nuclear plants
WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama on Tuesday announced his administration's first nuclear energy loan guarantee -- $8.33 billion to build the first new U.S. reactors in almost 30 years.

The loan-guarantee offer was granted to Georgia Power, a subsidiary of Southern Co., and its investment partners for the construction of two reactors at Plant Vogtle near Waynesboro, Ga., where the utility operates two existing reactors.

The new reactors are expected to provide 800 permanent jobs and electricity for 1.4 million people. Compared to similar-sized coal plants, they'll reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 16 million tons annually, or the equivalent of taking 3.5 million cars off the road each year.

The Obama administration hopes to back more nuclear loans. It recently requested lending authority for $36 billion in the 2011 budget, or enough for seven to 10 reactors. A range of critics across the political spectrum oppose the nuclear loan guarantees, saying they put too much taxpayer money at risk of default.

Obama said that other countries are building new nuclear power. ``Whether it is nuclear energy or solar or wind energy, if we fail to invest in these technologies today, we'll be importing them tomorrow,'' he said.

An expansion of U.S. nuclear energy was essential ``to meet our growing energy needs and prevent the worst consequences of climate change,'' Obama said. ``It's that simple.''

Obama also said the country will need to develop more offshore oil and gas and make investments in advanced biofuels and in technology that makes it possible to capture and store carbon dioxide from coal combustion, all policies Republicans back. Democrats need more Republican support to get an energy and climate bill passed in the Senate.

The president explicitly made a pitch to pro-nuclear Republicans to support a pending bill that would limit greenhouse gas emissions from large power generators, including coal-fired power plants.

``Energy leaders and experts recognize that as long as producing carbon pollution carries no cost, traditional plants that use fossil fuels will be more cost-effective than plants that use nuclear fuel,'' Obama said. ``That is why we need comprehensive energy and climate legislation to create a system of incentives to make clean energy profitable.''

``The fact is, changing the ways we produce and use energy requires us to think anew and act anew,'' the president said. ``And it demands of us a willingness to extend our hand across old divides, to act in good faith, to move beyond the broken politics of the past.''

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who is working with Sens. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., on a compromise energy and climate bill, said the loan guarantees were ``a significant step forward in jump-starting what I hope will be a renaissance in nuclear energy.''

Obama said that the United States also must speed up its search for a safe way to dispose of nuclear waste. The administration has decided not to pursue a permanent repository at Yucca Mountain, Nev. Obama appointed a bipartisan panel headed by former Indiana Rep. Lee Hamilton and Brent Scowcroft, a former national security advisor to President George H.W. Bush, to find a solution. Until a permanent facility is found, the waste is stored at individual plants.

I personally see this as a major step forward and something that should have been done for the last 3 administrations at least. Nuclear power is a stable Baseline power source that if used at a higher rate could dramatically reduce emissions and pollutants from other older power plants. I am not pleased that the federal government needs to guarantee it with that amount of money and I would like to see an actual return on this investment to the federal banks for the guarantee of the end loans.

The disposal of waste is still an item needing addressed, I'm not sure why the planned underground site is not revisited.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Amazon 7]

I am all for the building of the next generation of nuclear power plants.
My only caveat is that they should be built to the highest quality with the VERY BEST materials with no short cuts in construction and workmanship. Build the things for the ages.. because the materials within them are going to be there for the ages.

THe waste issue is a big one but not insurmountable.. and there will need to be viable reprocessing to reuse the materials.

[georgerussia 0]

I agree that is great news. Regarding storage there were some interesting projects - let's see how far they gonna made it.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[shropshire 0]

I also agree... Contracts for this type of engineering should NOT go to the lowest bidderhey need to be quality/safety based.... Irrespectrive of the country

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[wayneflorida 0]

Jane will not like this.

[futuredivot 0]

Props to the Prez on this one. Well past time. Now if someone will go to the inevitable protests and note how many of the plates aren't from Georgia

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[billvon 2,435]

Very good. Nuclear is a great baseline power source that can form the "backbone" of our power grid, with renewables and natural gas providing peaking power. It will be interesting to see what designs they go with, whether they will stick with LWR's or go to something like HTGR's. (HTGR's would be interesting since they can make hydrogen directly from water, which is the only way it will ever be practical as a fuel.)

[mnealtx 0]

Does this mean that fed.gov is going to stop the efforts to close Yucca Mountain?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,435]

>Does this mean that fed.gov is going to stop the efforts to close Yucca
>Mountain?

I doubt it; it's too much of a shitstorm to link to such an effort.

[BillyVance 34]

IMHO, we should never have stopped building nuclear power plants. It is unconscionable that we have not had one built in 30 odd years. TVA had a new one under construction at Watts Bar, near Scottsboro, AL and mothballed it. They never finished it and just gave up on it.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Amazon 7]

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IMHO, we should never have stopped building nuclear power plants. It is unconscionable that we have not had one built in 30 odd years. TVA had a new one under construction at Watts Bar, near Scottsboro, AL and mothballed it. They never finished it and just gave up on it.

No shit.. can you say WPPSS.. a complete fiasco that has had some severe long lasting effects.

[rehmwa 2]

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The president explicitly made a pitch to pro-nuclear Republicans to support a pending bill that would limit greenhouse gas emissions from large power generators, including coal-fired power plants.

a couple things -

can these guys be pro-nuclear, without having to be anti-something? I doubt it. All energy sources should be encouraged

now we have taxpayer money subsidizing nuclear power. I wonder what strings will be attached to the 'loans'? maybe price controls, non-substantive legislation on operation and construction, free energy for some, etc etc etc

will they also work to pull roadblocks from nuclear plant construction to allow any possibility of private sector development? or will this be the 1st hurdle to gov controlled energy? Lots of roadblocks have started as reasonable requirements and then were escalated to ridiculous by the wratchet-it a little more crowd (who's mission was to make it impossible eventually)

banks, manufacturing, energy, healthcare - that should do the job nicely

(mostly tongue in cheek here - the article notes "loans".... so the gov is really only collecting IOUs from energy)

A good base on nuke power is a great thing for the country if done right - supplied by private industry, and not choked off by special interest groups through interfering legislation

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

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(mostly tongue in cheek here - the article notes "loans".... so the gov is really only collecting IOUs from energy)

A good base on nuke power is a great thing for the country if done right - supplied by private industry, and not choked off by special interest groups through interfering legislation

AS I mentioned above.. go look up the WPPSS ( WHOOPS) fiasco... after those loans were defaulted on.. most investors stayed away from nukes in DROVES.

[PhreeZone 15]

Nuclear power already pays into a special fund that is to finance the long term storage but as of this point that snot used and the fund keeps growing. I think its total is upwards of 30 billion now.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Amazon 7]

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Nuclear power already pays into a special fund that is to finance the long term storage but as of this point that snot used and the fund keeps growing. I think its total is upwards of 30 billion now.

I would tend to think that is just a DROP in the proverbial bucket considering that sequestering the radioactive waste we have created in the last 70 years will still be lethal to life BILLIONS of years into the future.

( what is the half life of THOUSANDS of pounds of stuff that is lethal to a human in particles so small that you can only see them in a microsocpe)

[kelpdiver 2]

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I would tend to think that is just a DROP in the proverbial bucket considering that sequestering the radioactive waste we have created in the last 70 years will still be lethal to life BILLIONS of years into the future.

Sure you're not overstating here? Any isotope that takes billions of years to break down isn't exactly hot stuff.

[Channman 2]

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Very good. Nuclear is a great baseline power source that can form the "backbone" of our power grid, with renewables and natural gas providing peaking power. It will be interesting to see what designs they go with, whether they will stick with LWR's or go to something like HTGR's. (HTGR's would be interesting since they can make hydrogen directly from water, which is the only way it will ever be practical as a fuel.)

Well, this is very good news however I have this question:

1) How many years of litigation will occur and hundreds of millions spent before the first shovel of dirt is turned?

This would be a great Jobs bill if we can get right to work with design and onto construction without a decade of law suits.

[Amazon 7]

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I would tend to think that is just a DROP in the proverbial bucket considering that sequestering the radioactive waste we have created in the last 70 years will still be lethal to life BILLIONS of years into the future.

Sure you're not overstating here? Any isotope that takes billions of years to break down isn't exactly hot stuff.

No.. Plutonium 239.... half life of 24,000 approx.... and since the Manhatten Project there have been many TONS of it created... how many half lives of it will it take for that many tons to be harmless to life???

and lets not forget .... more of it is being created in EVERY reactor... every day.

[billvon 2,435]

>how many half lives of it will it take for that many tons to be
>harmless to life???

Never; it's always dangerous and there's always some left. But in, say, twenty million years, you won't be able to tell it (radiation-wise that is) from a cinderblock.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I would tend to think that is just a DROP in the proverbial bucket considering that sequestering the radioactive waste we have created in the last 70 years will still be lethal to life BILLIONS of years into the future.

Sure you're not overstating here? Any isotope that takes billions of years to break down isn't exactly hot stuff.

No.. Plutonium 239.... half life of 24,000 approx.... and since the Manhatten Project there have been many TONS of it created... how many half lives of it will it take for that many tons to be harmless to life???

10 half lives (quarter million years) drops the amount of pu-239 to 0.1%. 41.5 half lives (1 million years) and it's pretty much a rounding error to zero. Also bear in mind that it's an alpha emitter. It's not that dangerous from a radioactive perspective - you can handle it. Chemically, otoh, it's incredibly toxic and any ingestion would be fatal.

U-238 has a half life of 4.5 billion years, but it's also an alpha emitter, and an extremely slow one.

In the time frame that really matters to us - 10s to 100s of years, there are much more concerning byproducts. But in a billion years - no.

[Amazon 7]

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I would tend to think that is just a DROP in the proverbial bucket considering that sequestering the radioactive waste we have created in the last 70 years will still be lethal to life BILLIONS of years into the future.

Sure you're not overstating here? Any isotope that takes billions of years to break down isn't exactly hot stuff.

No.. Plutonium 239.... half life of 24,000 approx.... and since the Manhatten Project there have been many TONS of it created... how many half lives of it will it take for that many tons to be harmless to life???

10 half lives (quarter million years) drops the amount of pu-239 to 0.1%. 41.5 half lives (1 million years) and it's pretty much a rounding error to zero. Also bear in mind that it's an alpha emitter. It's not that dangerous from a radioactive perspective - you can handle it. Chemically, otoh, it's incredibly toxic and any ingestion would be fatal.

U-238 has a half life of 4.5 billion years, but it's also an alpha emitter, and an extremely slow one.

In the time frame that really matters to us - 10s to 100s of years, there are much more concerning byproducts. But in a billion years - no.

Well I wont be sticking around for 100 years... but I would like to think that we as a species... are willing to protect and nurture our offspring down thru the millenia.