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lawrocket

Thoughts on this Harsh Winter

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True. It's Climate change now. But warming. Just look at the Copenhagen summit, where a researcher posted his estimate of 6 feet of sea level rise by 2100. Others (like the Met) denounced it. He responded by saying it's likely an underestimate.

He based it on IPCC estinate of 6.4 degrees of warming - which seems a little high based on current trends.

Doubters - yes. Current trends.



The Copenhagen scientist stance is obviously that this year is an anomaly and should be stricken from the records when figuring out if Global warming is happening.:ph34r:
"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

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25,000 gallons of jet fuel just to put ME up to altitude over the years for a pointless activity like skydiving. (pointless in not necessary to actually survive) it's an activity we all WANT to do. If you skydive, and think "climate change" or "global warming", whatever the term is today, is caused by man burning fossil fuels, you are part of the problem. Stop skydiving and help the world. Lead by example.
My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch.

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The Copenhagen scientist stance is obviously that this year is an anomaly and should be stricken from the records when figuring out if Global warming is happening.:ph34r:



Well, why not? They've already 'adjusted' the 30's out of the equation...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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25,000 gallons of jet fuel just to put ME up to altitude over the years for a pointless activity like skydiving. (pointless in not necessary to actually survive) it's an activity we all WANT to do. If you skydive, and think "climate change" or "global warming", whatever the term is today, is caused by man burning fossil fuels, you are part of the problem. Stop skydiving and help the world. Lead by example.



and ... stop using their computers ... people don't think their computers are made with and powered by environmentally friendly sustainable products do they? LOL


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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nearly EVERYTHNG, if you believe that way, you're right. I just happen to not worry about any of it. I'm not complaining about the "killing" of the earth. I only have a problem with the hipocrites who way "we need to stop" but don't them selves stop. Make sense??
My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch.

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I only have a problem with the hipocrites who way "we need to stop" but don't them selves stop

Actually, I have a problem with the people who say "as long as you're not perfect, I'm not trying."

Whether or not global warming is an issue, the consumption of fuel for everything, and the consumption of space for our trash, are issues. I can't eliminate my impact on either, but I can for damn sure reduce them.

It's not that hard to simply reduce one's contribution to the mess that we're making? Perfection is impossible.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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by the way, i agree with you, if it's an issue or not, saving is all ok. It's just more often than not people generally talk about what OTHERS need to do, but justify to themselves whey their own burning of fuel is OK. -Tony
My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch.

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25,000 gallons of jet fuel just to put ME up to altitude over the years for a pointless activity like skydiving. (pointless in not necessary to actually survive) it's an activity we all WANT to do. If you skydive, and think "climate change" or "global warming", whatever the term is today, is caused by man burning fossil fuels, you are part of the problem. Stop skydiving and help the world. Lead by example.



Sustainability is not the same as abstinence, Tony. There IS a level of activity that can be supported.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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( i don't even know where you stand on the issue, i just happened to reply to your post and wasn't directly talking to YOU to quit) , but, fair enough, on what you said. but I still think on a large scale, people justify why their own consumption is ok, but "others" should stop theirs. And skydiving burns a LOT of fuel every year. I am all for it. I don't tell others to stop burning fuel in their SUV's or private jets either. If I can justify why it's OK for ME, then I have no right to tell someone it isn't right for THEM. That is my problem with it-that happens a LOT. Maybe I'll come to chicago now, it can't be much colder than florida the last couple of weeks....B|

My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch.

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I still think on a large scale, people justify why their own consumption is ok, but "others" should stop theirs.



Bingo! This is, unfortunately, the same with everybody. There are some true martyrs out there (Elvis knew that he could take all of those pills off the street by consuming them). Al Gore puts himself through to gauntlet by flying on private jets and consuming massive quantities of household energy in order to point out how everyone else should cut their consumption.

Anyone can justify their own personal consumption of energy. To them it is worthwhile (I justify my SUV by its safety) but another persons personal and subjective ideas may find that to be abhorrent because I use MORE fuel than that person.

I view it as similar to, "I am more supportive of troops than you." Or, "I favor gay rights more than you."


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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it works the same with money. michael moore makes a movie where he thinks some people make obscene amounts of profits. But michael makes more in one day from that movie than I make in a year. But I don't think he makes too much. Just because he is better at making money than I am doesn't mean he makes too much. More power to him. I couldn't disagree with him more on his views though. That is a separate issue. It's not his fault I don't make a lot. it is MY FAULT. I don't deserve a penny of HIS money. But people think it's always someone else that is the problem.
My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch.

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I still think on a large scale, people justify why their own consumption is ok, but "others" should stop theirs.



Bingo! This is, unfortunately, the same with everybody. There are some true martyrs out there (Elvis knew that he could take all of those pills off the street by consuming them). Al Gore puts himself through to gauntlet by flying on private jets and consuming massive quantities of household energy in order to point out how everyone else should cut their consumption.

Anyone can justify their own personal consumption of energy. To them it is worthwhile (I justify my SUV by its safety) but another persons personal and subjective ideas may find that to be abhorrent because I use MORE fuel than that person.

I view it as similar to, "I am more supportive of troops than you." Or, "I favor gay rights more than you."



Sustainability does NOT equate to abstinence. That is the very large fallacy in your position. If you have a mansion and leave the lights on all day, but they are powered by wind or solar, no problem. If you drive a Hummer on fuel made by fermenting algae, no problem. If you fly a plane using jet fuel made from switch grass, no problem.

You can be carbon-neutral or even carbon-negative without giving up your activities if you really want to.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Sustainability does NOT equate to abstinence. That is the very large fallacy in your position.



I'll show fallacy in yours, because you are not accounting for all factors.

[Reply]If you have a mansion and leave the lights on all day, but they are powered by wind or solar, no problem.



Why? Wind power is causing significant ecological issues. In fact, wealthy liberals with mansions cannot stand the thought of windmills ruining their views.

I should also add - what about the chemical processes and wastes from the production od solar cells?

[Reply] If you drive a Hummer on fuel made by fermenting algae, no problem.



I don't know if you are aware of this, but there are significant issues with how we are going to irrigate these places that produce alternative fuels. The water use is massive and - unsustainable with current uses and practices.

[Reply] If you fly a plane using jet fuel made from switch grass, no problem.



Again, water. Water. Water. And the fact that native flora are being hacked down for places like this makes it no better, just different.

Different values and subjective feelings. It's why I said you can justify it but I've got values that make your decisions seem pretty irresponsible.

[Reply]You can be carbon-neutral or even carbon-negative without giving up your activities if you really want to.



Even sex increases breathing and metabolism. I haven't been a carbon sink since I was younger.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Blah, blah, blah, your reasonable discussion doesn't matter to the AGW crowd.

They don't care about 'really' cutting on carbon use, they care about "credits" and taxes so they can decide to take money from group A and give it to group B.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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There is a persistent undercurrent that this is as much about war on the petrochemical industry as anything.

How does one get people to purchase new products that are more expensive? By villification of the competitor. If you can even get laws passed banning the competitor's product, then even better!


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Right now energy consumption is kind of single-source (petroleum). While it's never really going to completely run out, the sooner it gets a little expensive the better. That way people will start looking at alternatives more seriously, before it becomes scarce enough to be really expensive.

Otherwise, we're facing a giant dope slap whenever most of the cheap oil is gone, and all of a sudden it's 5-8 times the cost. Not in 30 years so that we have a chance to get used to it.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Sustainability does NOT equate to abstinence. That is the very large fallacy in your position.



I'll show fallacy in yours, because you are not accounting for all factors.



Apparently you are either clueless about what sustainability is, or you are playing your lawyer tricks again thinking no-one here is smart enough to catch you.:P
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Finally, 12 days of morning temps below freezing will end tomorow.:)This is a new record for our area I believe.
I'm in NW Florida panhandle, now known as the Emerald Coast, formally the Playgound Area or the Miracle Strip.



10 degrees above normal in Chicago. Global Cooling must be over already.;)
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Right now energy consumption is kind of single-source (petroleum). While it's never really going to completely run out, the sooner it gets a little expensive the better. That way people will start looking at alternatives more seriously, before it becomes scarce enough to be really expensive.



Right. Wendy - calling it as it is. But this isn't enough. See, just sending troops to Iraq to overthrow it and install democracy as a shining beacon in the Middle East wasn't a good enough reason for the American Public. Instead, we've got to explain a plausible threat to our very existence. Then they'll support it.

I fully concur with you, Wendy. Hopefully, everyone starts puttign it right down to that. If this isn't enough to chage the collective will of the people then so be it.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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"If you have a mansion and leave the lights on all day, but they are powered by wind or solar, no problem."

Prof. you had better bone up on econ 101



Have you been taking thermodynamics lessons from mnealtx?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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