Whale Wars Heats UP!

[ferdberfel 0]

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That illegal acts are "okay" if they're done in counter to illegal acts?

From the standpoint of the USA, a very large YES.

We, the USA, invaded and occupied Iraq, with no legal basis to do so. The supposed WMD and "Saddam is bad man" arguments don't hold up in any way. Saddam's so called illegal acts were the basis for a much greater illegal act.

Invasion and occupation of a country that HAS NEVER attacked your country in any way, is illegal, by international law. The last time this was done was in the thirties, by the German army. In a really sick demonstration of how incredibly ignorant most of the US population is, many people think that we were legal and justified in conducting the invasion and occupation.

The precedent has been established.

Feel free to come up with another argument that isn't so easy to "blow out of the water". Pun intended.

[Southern_Man 0]

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Invasion and occupation of a country that HAS NEVER attacked your country in any way, is illegal, by international law. The last time this was done was in the thirties, by the German army.

Pretty sure it has been done since then, for example when Iraq occupied Kuwait.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[lawrocket 3]

So are the whales Saddam Hussein? I saw a television show that demonstrated that whales and dolphins dropped Fat Man and Little Boy, thus Japan has good reason for hating them.

Maybe Japanese whalers are freedom fighters and anti-whale are insurgents, utilizing non-improvised floating devices.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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That illegal acts are "okay" if they're done in counter to illegal acts?

From the standpoint of the USA, a very large YES.

We, the USA, invaded and occupied Iraq, with no legal basis to do so. The supposed WMD and "Saddam is bad man" arguments don't hold up in any way. Saddam's so called illegal acts were the basis for a much greater illegal act.

Invasion and occupation of a country that HAS NEVER attacked your country in any way, is illegal, by international law. The last time this was done was in the thirties, by the German army. In a really sick demonstration of how incredibly ignorant most of the US population is, many people think that we were legal and justified in conducting the invasion and occupation.

The precedent has been established.

Feel free to come up with another argument that isn't so easy to "blow out of the water". Pun intended.

Arguments one way or the other about the war on radical, terrorist-Muslims the US has waged the past 9+ years aside, I understand that from your viewpoint the invasion of Iraq has about as much to do with this as anything.


My point was, "What did the Sea Shepherds expect to have happened after they themselves have repeatedly rammed whaling vessels, launched various projectiles and stink bombs at whaling vessels or tired to foul the screws of whaling vessels?" Don't play that act and then be surprised when you get hit back. Suck it up when I don't buy your "innocence" arguement.

Seems no one cared to ask, but... OBTW... In light of the international agreements banning whaling, since doing so isn't a significant way to improve our standard of living anymore, I agree that its beyond nonsense that the Japanese taking 1000+ whales a year under the guise of "research" is "okay"... but, back to my point, it is also an equal amount of nonsense the Sea Shepherds are "innocent" of provocation in this incident.

I'd have more respect for both the Sea Shepherds and Japanese whalers if they'd turn off the cameras, take up real arms and settle this between themselves. That would be equally as wrong as what's going on now on both sides, but at least it would be more honest.

I'd suppose the U.S. Navy could step in and make quick work of this. Would y'all be for that? If not, what so?

[rushmc 18]

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That illegal acts are "okay" if they're done in counter to illegal acts?

From the standpoint of the USA, a very large YES.

We, the USA, invaded and occupied Iraq, with no legal basis to do so. The supposed WMD and "Saddam is bad man" arguments don't hold up in any way. Saddam's so called illegal acts were the basis for a much greater illegal act.

Invasion and occupation of a country that HAS NEVER attacked your country in any way, is illegal, by international law. The last time this was done was in the thirties, by the German army. In a really sick demonstration of how incredibly ignorant most of the US population is, many people think that we were legal and justified in conducting the invasion and occupation.

The precedent has been established.

Feel free to come up with another argument that isn't so easy to "blow out of the water". Pun intended.

Arguments one way or the other about the war on radical, terrorist-Muslims the US has waged the past 9+ years aside, I understand that from your viewpoint the invasion of Iraq has about as much to do with this as anything.


My point was, "What did the Sea Shepherds expect to have happened after they themselves have repeatedly rammed whaling vessels, launched various projectiles and stink bombs at whaling vessels or tired to foul the screws of whaling vessels?" Don't play that act and then be surprised when you get hit back. Suck it up when I don't buy your "innocence" arguement.

Seems no one cared to ask, but... OBTW... In light of the international agreements banning whaling, since doing so isn't a significant way to improve our standard of living anymore, I agree that its beyond nonsense that the Japanese taking 1000+ whales a year under the guise of "research" is "okay"... but, back to my point, it is also an equal amount of nonsense the Sea Shepherds are "innocent" of provocation in this incident.

I'd have more respect for both the Sea Shepherds and Japanese whalers if they'd turn off the cameras, take up real arms and settle this between themselves. That would be equally as wrong as what's going on now on both sides, but at least it would be more honest.

I'd suppose the U.S. Navy could step in and make quick work of this. Would y'all be for that? If not, what so?

But, but, but, he has so much charater!!!! Just ask him. He self assigned it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billeisele 122]

likewise, the "research" whaling is illegal, what Sea Shepard is doing is illegal

the fact that some idiot chose to drive a small sinkable vessel in front of a big ship - well, they got what they asked for - to be hit by the Japanese so they could whine

this can go 2 ways: escalate or back off, escalate makes headlines so I expect to see a sinking and some deaths, and of course more whining

Sea Shepard punks have wasted tons of money and endangered lives, should have used it to buy a spy to go on the ships and sabatoge critical systems, or bought some lawyers to go to court

and before you go off on me: I'm a Marine Biologist that disagrees with this level of whaling

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[sundevil777 94]

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Invasion and occupation of a country that HAS NEVER attacked your country in any way, is illegal, by international law.

There was a cease fire agreement from the first gulf war (conducted with a huge UN coalition). Iraq did not comply with that cease fire agreement from the start and continued to regularly fire upon US planes. That is a lot different than how you portray it. If you would rather just tell Iraq that they won't be held to the agreement then that is one position to take, is that what you'd do?

As for the Sea Shepards, they should stop screwing around (it can be kinda boring to watch) and do something effective. Dropping the smelly stuff from their helicopter, maybe an EMP device on one of the small ships would have disabled the electronics a ship, I don't know, just something effective for a change. They also shouldn't have been so fucking stupid to not be ready to move out of the way, they were out on the deck watching the harpoon boat go by really close, never thinking it might ram them, that was really stupid.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[nanook 1]

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So are the whales Saddam Hussein? I saw a television show that demonstrated that whales and dolphins dropped Fat Man and Little Boy, thus Japan has good reason for hating them.

Maybe Japanese whalers are freedom fighters and anti-whale are insurgents, utilizing non-improvised floating devices.

That was a good documentary. Just don't tell the Japanese who really dropped the bomb

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[rhys 0]

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Not to excuse the fact that the Japanese whaler rammed these guy’s spiffy new speed boat, but THIS from the same “conservationists” that have:

- Over the years, repeatedly us....

You do realise commercial whaling is against the law in these waters?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

depends whose waters and what quotas are in place.

The japs come down a pillage our southern seas, illegally and get away with it, by blatantly lying about research and selling it in supermarkets.

From what I gather the Norwegans have a quota system.

quotas have saved New Zealand fisheries and made them (seemingly) fully sustainable, and have replenished lost stock from over fishing from before.

There are no quotas going on in this japanese reseach!

it is more... rape and pillige!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Coreece 190]

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I could fuck up the spy vessels elctronics gear so fast they would never know what hit them.

you da man...

+1

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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Not to excuse the fact that the Japanese whaler rammed these guy’s spiffy new speed boat, but THIS from the same “conservationists” that have:

- Over the years, repeatedly us....

You do realise commercial whaling is against the law in these waters?

Where did I say I agree with what the Japanese are doing?


I just think its fucking hilarious to watch the hippies nut-up when the Japanese deal back with them in kind.

What are they smoking and how much of it to not think that after years of throwing stuff at the Japanese whaling vessels, launching stuff from sling-shots & potato cannons at the Japanese vessels, using water cannons of their own on the Japanese, trying to prop fowl the Japanese vessels and ramming the Japanese vessels to not think that one day the Japanese were going to turn the tables on them?

How stupid are these guys to think there wasn't a bunch of pay-back coming their way? Not saying that's right, but it is to be expected... and then they whine about their lives being endangered... get real!

Not to mention the seeming ineptitude of some of the hippy crew when it comes to seamanship. I'm surprised the Japanese haven't had to come to their rescue when some one's bong got knocked over and set fire to their ship.

I'd have more respect for the hippies if it was their leaders that were trying to board the Japanese vessels in protest rather then asking for "volunteers" from their crew to go do their dirty work.

Anyway, if New Zealand and Australia feel so strongly about this, then y'all gotta have some military vessels around somewhere? Joist hoist their sails and head out. I'm sure you can take care of a half dozen or so Japanese whaling ships. We're kinda busy right now.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

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They also shouldn't have been so fucking stupid to not be ready to move out of the way, they were out on the deck watching the harpoon boat go by really close, never thinking it might ram them, that was really stupid.

Evidently they were out of fuel or really low on fuel because they "forgot" to refuel they spiffy speed boat after finding the Japanese whaling fleet.

[kallend 1,640]

www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6704191n&tag=mg;mostpopvideo

Looks like the whales are fighting back.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

GO WHALES!

[sundevil777 94]

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They also shouldn't have been so fucking stupid to not be ready to move out of the way, they were out on the deck watching the harpoon boat go by really close, never thinking it might ram them, that was really stupid.

Evidently they were out of fuel or really low on fuel because they "forgot" to refuel they spiffy speed boat after finding the Japanese whaling fleet.

Yes, they were low, but they had plenty enough to move out of the way. They were not even at the controls of their ship.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[OzAdski 0]

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Anyway, if New Zealand and Australia feel so strongly about this, then y'all gotta have some military vessels around somewhere? Joist hoist their sails and head out. I'm sure you can take care of a half dozen or so Japanese whaling ships. We're kinda busy right now.

Our Navy is too busy rescuing Afghani refugees from the Indian ocean...

[pinkfairy 0]

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I cannot help but wonder why there is so much focus on Japan when Norway is no better. Last year, Norway increased its self-quota of whales to hunt by 45%. Yet Japan takes the heat.

Am I impugning some of the base motives? Why yes, I am. They won't pick on Norway or even Iceland. They prefer to set sights on Japan.

What's the deal?

We catch a few hundred of these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minke_whale, a least concern species,

Japan also catches a few sei, bryde, fin and sperm whales: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japan_whaling_1985-2006.svg

some of which are listed as endangered.

but other than that, I don't know why, in Norway we don't even call the catch "scientific", norwegian whalers kill whales and the meat is sold.

With the very limited numbers of whales being taken out of a least concern species, I don't think that norwegian whaling is in any way unsustainable. It's not an over harvested resource and there is no by-catch, something that can be said for few sources of seafood.

I think it's easier for Sea Shepherd to go after the japanese whalers because they operate in the antarctic sea, it would be harder to go after the norwegian ones, as they have the coastal guard close at hand for assistance. Just my guess.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[rwieder 0]

Japs, wops, dagos, micks doesn't matter to me. Paul Watson is their only protector every season. He also has campaigns to stop murdering baby seals. There has been violent attacks on the Steve Irwan's crew when they got off of the boat and walked over the frozen white tundra to confront these murdering bastards.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[kelpdiver 2]

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Japs, wops, dagos, micks doesn't matter to me. Paul Watson is their only protector every season. He also has campaigns to stop murdering baby seals. There has been violent attacks on the Steve Irwan's crew when they got off of the boat and walked over the frozen white tundra to confront these murdering bastards.

Pinkfairy's point is what's so evil about sustainable harvesting? Your words show that you consider these species to be above our consumption.

How is a baby seal different from veal?

[rwieder 0]

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How is a baby seal different from veal?

They don't eat them. They slaughter them for their fur.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[kelpdiver 2]

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How is a baby seal different from veal?

They don't eat them. They slaughter them for their fur.

ok, how is it different from other animals that are killed for their pelts?

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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Pinkfairy's point is what's so evil about sustainable harvesting?

I do not have any issues with humane, sustainable harvesting.

I did not read anything in Pinkfairy's post or links presenting Japanese whaling as sustainable other than a Wiki link of the Antartic minke whale as "least concern", neglecting to get specific. For example, the North Pacific minke appears to be "in decline and considered threatened".

It would seem Pinkfairy's Wiki would agree the sperm whale is vulnerable, and the sei whale in endangered.


I am not sure what your point is regarding animals harvested for pelts except if it is sustainable--for me--it must also be humane. There is nothing humane about pelts/the fur industry.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[kelpdiver 2]

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I am not sure what your point is regarding animals harvested for pelts except if it is sustainable--for me--it must also be humane. There is nothing humane about pelts/the fur industry.

The point lies in the silliness of not knowing/caring how that burger or sausage got to the table, while the harvesting of cute animals is horribly wrong.

it's not very nice when other predators eat those baby seals either.

[wildcard451 0]

It made me absolutely giddy to see that boat get run over. Look on the hats of the Sea Shepherd people - "Get Ready to Ram" or something like that.

I do believe Tallahassee said it best - "Nut up or shut up"