Lucky... 0 #76 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not in favor of whale hunting, but I do believe the Japanese version of this incident. The smaller boat positioned itself to be rammed, either deliberately or accidentally. AFAIK, groups like these have been 'stalking' whaling boats for years. Is it an effective tactic ? Has there been evidence to suggest that fewer whales were killed as a result of this type of 'sea stalking' ? Anyone perhaps know ? Since as far as I can tell this is about the only response to the thread, I have replied to it. Andy's assertion that they are terrorists is correct, although I guess you could call them vigilantees just as easily. BBC had a short video of them and to be honest they were piloting their craft in an agressive manner and buzzing a much larger ship. How does a high speed, highly manouvarable craft get rammed by a large unweildy vessel? I think they cocked up with there aggressive manouvers and simply got run over - tough luck to them. To apply the defintion, they are terorists. Terrorsim is the infliction of fear to achieve a political agenda, so in a way they are creating a sort of fear on the lower end of that definition. But we could also apply that to abortion clinic protestors, esp the non-peaceful type. Where peaceful protest of any kind ends and terrorism begins is highly subjective. I guess we could call the idiots at the tea parties who carried guns while Obama showed up terrorists and the non-gun carriers as peaceful dissent. It's about the introduction of fear that defines if they are terrorists, as well as the political agenda. Of course we will have a barrage of people piping in to say that the anti-whalers are terrorists and the gun-carrying tea partiers are not and then using some twisted version of the dictionary to explain that. Remember, you have both: - Introduction of fear - To achieve a political agenda to be terrorism. I believe you also need intent to induce the fear. If the gun wearing tea-partiers did so in order to produce fear, then the terrorist label could be fairly applied. If they wore guns, and any fear generated was not intended by them, then they are not acting to incite fear, and (in my mind) not terrorists. Who can determine intent? Not I. just trying to tweak your definition. I believe intent is required. They weren't carrying .22's around, these were usually AR-15's and the sort. To take this to a political rally is conidered, by a reasonable standard, nothing less than the introduction of fear. No one was threatening to attack the president, this was a political message teling the admin they hate him, so don't push it too far. Mens Rea really isn't necessary, strick liability reasoning is all that is necessary, as this allows you an out and someone must pull the trigger on the [res in order to convince you; that is abstract logic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #77 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote>are you saying that the sea shepherds are not eco-terrorists? I'm saying that getting run over by a big fishing vessel is not a terrorist act. Neither is getting in the way of their water cannons. but fouling their props is. so is throwing chemicals onto the ship. so is ramming the ship. the sea shepards have even sunk ships before. terrorist is a word with other connotations. I'd rather think of them as pirates. Pirates rob things, terrorists use fear to achieve a political agenada. I think you're using the, "my diddy told me it was like..." dictionary and standard US dictionaries for your defs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #78 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe Whaling ship intentionally refused to miss the other ship in an act of defiance. Can't access the video, but given the size of whaling ships I've seen, unless the dumbshit greenpeacer was at LEAST 200-300 yards ahead of the whaler when he crossed the bow, there was NO WAY the whaler was going to miss him - and that's moving dead slow. Ships don't maneuver like cars. I couldn't pull it up either, but I get the jist. The ecologists were being a nuisance, threatening commerce at the very least, the whaler said fuck you. I did concede the ecologists were performing a very short degree of terrorism of sorts, certianly not of the ilk of abortion clinic protestors, but in a general sense, they are on the edge at sea. Of course these guys have a policy of hurting no one, so they don't use physical violence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #79 January 8, 2010 >but fouling their props is. Got my prop fouled several times back on Long Island Sound. Even happened once during a dive trip in Australia. Call me crazy; I was never terrified. To each their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #80 January 8, 2010 After 273 posts parsing the semantics of "terrorism", I propose a new word: Angryism. They were trying to get them angry. So they were angriests. End of thread. Thank God. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #81 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteare you saying that the sea shepherds are not eco-terrorists? do a little googling of that organization and read about the things that paul watson has done over the years. They use economic terrorism, not physical terrorism. Is it still terrorism? Barely an in a limited sense. You're using the term losely. ramming ships, throwing chemicals onboard, fouling props, and sinking ship most certainly is physical. "Eco-terrorism refers to acts of terrorism, violence or sabotage committed in support of ecological, environmental, or animal rights causes against persons or their property." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-terrorism "Noun 1. ecoterrorism - violence carried out to further the political or social objectives of the environmentalists eco-warfare, ecological terrorism, ecological warfare act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ecoterrorism "Main Entry: eco·ter·ror·ism Pronunciation: \ˌē-kō-ˈter-ər-i-zəm, ˌe-kō-\ Function: noun Date: 1987 1 : sabotage intended to hinder activities that are considered damaging to the environment." http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ecoterrorism i'm not using the term loosely, this is exactly what this group does. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #82 January 8, 2010 So what would eco-angryism be? Feel free to use the term loosely. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #83 January 8, 2010 Quote Pirates rob things, terrorists use fear to achieve a political agenada. I think you're using the, "my diddy told me it was like..." dictionary and standard US dictionaries for your defs. no... it was a meatball pitch that someone already swung at. butt pirates humor is not totally lost. well, on you maybe. It's a web forum. stop taking it so damn seriously. (now go cry to bill that it was a PA...)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #84 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuote Pirates rob things, terrorists use fear to achieve a political agenada. I think you're using the, "my diddy told me it was like..." dictionary and standard US dictionaries for your defs. no... it was a meatball pitch that someone already swung at. butt pirates humor is not totally lost. well, on you maybe. It's a web forum. stop taking it so damn seriously. (now go cry to bill that it was a PA...) Crap.. I didn't think Larry Craig or Ted Haggard were into saving the whales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #85 January 8, 2010 Quote Right, this is why I wrote: ...look at rattlesnakes if you want to see an animal/reptile that bites/strikes and doesn't eat. You came in late, but the point made by someone else was that since humans have canines for fighting, You ASSUME that humans have canines for fighting, and not for eating meat. Quotethey must also eat that flesh they bite as they are defending themselves. I supplied the rattlesnake reply that that STRIKE and not eat or inject venom as a defense, esp in adult snakes with regard to the venom. "adult snakes use their venom usually only for food, not defense" - recall who wrote that? It wasn't me. QuoteLet me spell it out for you simply: TEETH/FANGS CAN BE USED AS DEVICES IN WHICH TO EAT AND/OR TO FIGHT AND DEFEND YOURSELF, SO A HUMAN'S CANINES CAN BE USED TO FIGHT AND THEN NOT EAT WHAT THEY DEFENSIVELY BITE, AS THEIR DIET IS BASED UPON MEAT AND DIGESTIVE SYSTEM DOESN'T DIGEST MEAT WELL. Yours may not - mine digests meat just fine, thanks. Maybe you should try some time release Pepcid - that should give it time to get into that second stomach of yours so you won't be so choleric.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #86 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuote Pirates rob things, terrorists use fear to achieve a political agenada. I think you're using the, "my diddy told me it was like..." dictionary and standard US dictionaries for your defs. no... it was a meatball pitch that someone already swung at. butt pirates humor is not totally lost. well, on you maybe. It's a web forum. stop taking it so damn seriously. (now go cry to bill that it was a PA...) Crap.. I didn't think Larry Craig or Ted Haggard were into saving the whales. They aren't - it was Barney Frank.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #87 January 8, 2010 >Yours may not - mine digests meat just fine, thanks. Well, it probably digests cooked meat just fine (which is a method of pre-digestion.) In the wild, this can happen to carrion; bacteria begin to break down the meat, and many carrion eaters rely on that "pre-digestion" to make it easier to digest meat. True carnivores deal with the difficulty of digesting meat by having a very, very low pH (1-2) in their stomachs; basically pure hydrochloric acid. Once it's broken down, though, the resulting protein is very easy to absorb, which is why they have very short small intestines. We have pH's in our stomachs of about 4-5, which means that we aren't as good at breaking down meat, and that we are more vulnerable to meat-borne pathogens. Also, our small intestine is quite long (20 feet!) since we're used to getting most of our nutrition from plants, which are harder to extract nutrition from. An additional issue is that we're not that good at getting meat to our stomachs yet. The most common object involved in fatal choking incidents is a piece of meat. Carnivores have more flexible and less convoluted throats that help prevent this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #88 January 8, 2010 Quote>Yours may not - mine digests meat just fine, thanks. Well, it probably digests cooked meat just fine (which is a method of pre-digestion.) In the wild, this can happen to carrion; bacteria begin to break down the meat, and many carrion eaters rely on that "pre-digestion" to make it easier to digest meat. I don't disagree - although I *will* bring up the tradition Inuit diet as well as sushi and steak tartare in response. QuoteTrue carnivores deal with the difficulty of digesting meat by having a very, very low pH (1-2) in their stomachs; basically pure hydrochloric acid. Once it's broken down, though, the resulting protein is very easy to absorb, which is why they have very short small intestines. We have pH's in our stomachs of about 4-5, which means that we aren't as good at breaking down meat, and that we are more vulnerable to meat-borne pathogens. Also, our small intestine is quite long (20 feet!) since we're used to getting most of our nutrition from plants, which are harder to extract nutrition from. An additional issue is that we're not that good at getting meat to our stomachs yet. The most common object involved in fatal choking incidents is a piece of meat. Carnivores have more flexible and less convoluted throats that help prevent this. All very true - I don't recall saying we were carnivores. I've just said we weren't herbivores.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #89 January 8, 2010 QuoteAll very true - I don't recall saying we were carnivores. I've just said we weren't herbivores. Hey speak for yourself.... MMMMMMMM Dead Animal parts.....MMMMMMMM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #90 January 8, 2010 Meat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :)-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #91 January 8, 2010 QuoteMeat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :) We invite you to consume mass quantities! - Beldar Conehead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #92 January 8, 2010 Quote Meat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :) And I'm a murderer!Hey I found something I can agree with Amazon withNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #93 January 9, 2010 Quote Quote Meat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :) And I'm a murderer!Hey I found something I can agree with Amazon with There's room for ALL God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #94 January 9, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Meat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :) And I'm a murderer!Hey I found something I can agree with Amazon with There's room for ALL God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. Ill have to remember that one! Thats greatNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #95 January 9, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Quote Meat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :) And I'm a murderer!Hey I found something I can agree with Amazon with There's room for ALL God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. Ill have to remember that one! Thats great You can get the Tshirt at Academy sports...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #96 January 9, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Meat is MURDER!! Tasty Tasty murder!!! :) And I'm a murderer!Hey I found something I can agree with Amazon with There's room for ALL God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. I had a nice 1 pound chunk of fresh... wild.... coho salmon for din din tonight .. I poached it with some Sauvignon Blanc, a little bit of butter and a few slices of a garlic clove I grew in my garden..MMMMMMM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #97 January 9, 2010 I had chicken nuggets from the pizza joint on base....you win!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #98 January 9, 2010 Quote I had chicken nuggets from the pizza joint on base....you win!! For din din tomorrow night I have a very nice steak from the butcher.. thick cut.. about 1.3 pounds of choice rib eye... The BBQ on the deck has been feeling lonely SO I will singe the rib eye to keep it happyI think I will make some hearty mashed taters ... I grew those two..little fellers.. white potatos... about 2" in diameter... and again the fresh butter from the local dairy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #99 January 9, 2010 Hush, you!!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #100 January 9, 2010 Quote Quote I had chicken nuggets from the pizza joint on base....you win!! For din din tomorrow night I have a very nice steak from the butcher.. thick cut.. about 1.3 pounds of choice rib eye... The BBQ on the deck has been feeling lonely SO I will singe the rib eye to keep it happyI think I will make some hearty mashed taters ... I grew those two..little fellers.. white potatos... about 2" in diameter... and again the fresh butter from the local dairy. Mmmmm... you are only allowed to post about food from now on.... cause your other posts suck in comparison. *I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
