should switzerland ban the building of minarets!?

[virgin-burner 1]

since the election is coming up this sunday, what's the take of the mostly americans on this place!?

like, uhm, we have direct democracy here, so we can vote about all sorts of stuff..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Andy9o8 0]

I was unfamiliar with the referendum, and you didn't link any news story, so I googled the subject to learn about it. Here are some news stories:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=switzerland+minaret+referendum&aq=1&oq=switzerland+mina&aqi=g2

Now that I've read about the subject, it seems to me to be the sort of xenophobia and ethnic bigotry that is typical of right-wing groups - in this case the Swiss People's Party, which the BBC article notes is a right-wing party. (I imagine they don't have any problem with steeples on Christian churches; although that's really beside the point.)

[virgin-burner 1]

well, those steeples are part of the swiss culture since many centuries; there's two "country-religions", the catholic and the prothestant church. the muslims have not been part of the swiss community until a few decades ago. they have their mosques, the jewish have their synagogues etc..

sorry, i wasnt aware there were articles to linked in english; thanks for looking for those!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

and the swiss people's party is about as right-wing as the republicans i suppose.. so, dont get the idea of some facist group - but yea, they're on the right/conservative side of the political spectrum..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[masterblaster72 0]

I see the signs here in Zurich "ja zum minaret verboten"...if that's what the majority of the country wants, then they absolutely should be banned.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[DanG 1]

I don't understand why minirets are "symbols of Muslim religious intolerance" (from the linked article) but steeples are not "symbols of Christian religious intolerance".

I would hope the Swiss people are not so bigoted as to pass this measure, but it's their country, if they want to be xenophobic pussies, then I guess that is their right.

- Dan G

[jakee 1,255]

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I see the signs here in Zurich "ja zum minaret verboten"...if that's what the majority of the country wants, then they absolutely should be banned.

So you're a supporter of the tyrrany of the majority.

Why should 50.1% of a country be able to overrule the rights of the other 49.9%?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,400]

Yep. I mean, who actually _likes_ minarets? Standing around with their faces painted white, pretending they can't talk - not funny at all, just a little creepy. Not as creepy as clowns, of course.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I don't understand why minirets are "symbols of Muslim religious intolerance"

Yeah, I had to laugh at that; it's classic Orwellian Newspeak - the "labeling in opposites"; in this case, justifying religious intolerance toward Muslims by labeling Muslim minarets as "religious intolerance." Goebbels would be proud.

[quade 3]

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since the election is coming up this sunday, what's the take of the mostly americans on this place!?

I wouldn't care as long as;

1) They met zoning and building codes.
2) Noise pollution restrictions were firmly enforced.

The absolute last thing I'd want is a 100 foot speaker tower built next to my house blasting calls to prayers every morning at fucking dawn and four more times throughout the day.

And yes, that is the real purpose of a minaret. They way it looks and the religion it stands for is the least of my issues.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[virgin-burner 1]

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I don't understand why minirets are "symbols of Muslim religious intolerance"

Yeah, I had to laugh at that; it's classic Orwellian Newspeak - the "labeling in opposites"; in this case, justifying religious intolerance toward Muslims by labeling Muslim minarets as "religious intolerance." Goebbels would be proud.

please note, this is not a swiss article; so the goebbels-reference is to be projected to the author..

ever heard of godwin's law!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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Quote

I see the signs here in Zurich "ja zum minaret verboten"...if that's what the majority of the country wants, then they absolutely should be banned.

So you're a supporter of the tyrrany of the majority.

Why should 50.1% of a country be able to overrule the rights of the other 49.9%?

this, unlike buying your presidency, democracy; but maybe you dont know the difference..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[DanG 1]

So what is the reasoning behind wanting to ban the minirets?

- Dan G

[virgin-burner 1]

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since the election is coming up this sunday, what's the take of the mostly americans on this place!?

I wouldn't care as long as;

1) They met zoning and building codes.
2) Noise pollution restrictions were firmly enforced.

The absolute last thing I'd want is a 100 foot speaker tower built next to my house blasting calls to prayers every morning at fucking dawn and four more times throughout the day.

And yes, that is the real purpose of a minaret. They way it looks and the religion it stands for is the least of my issues.

same thing happening in germany; first they built mosques; then came the minarets; now the muezzin calls for prayer..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,400]

>this, unlike buying your presidency, democracy; but maybe you dont know the difference..

Pure democracy works as badly as pure socialism, communism or totalitarianism. Fortunately most democracies nowadays are constitutional republics, which helps avert some of the worst abuses of democracy.

[virgin-burner 1]

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So what is the reasoning behind wanting to ban the minirets?

there's currently 3 minarets in switzerland if i'm right, there's the building of a 4th planned which the local people opposed; from the following debatte, this initiative was formed..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[DanG 1]

But why did they oppose it? Was it because of the noise? Was it ugly? I don't understand the opposition.

- Dan G

[virgin-burner 1]

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>this, unlike buying your presidency, democracy; but maybe you dont know the difference..

Pure democracy works as badly as pure socialism, communism or totalitarianism. Fortunately most democracies nowadays are constitutional republics, which helps avert some of the worst abuses of democracy.

most laws are passed in some sort of congress, but that wont stop people from collecting signatures to pass laws from "the people" directly..

of course, most of the times that is pushed or opposed from one of the parties, according to their agendas..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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But why did they oppose it? Was it because of the noise? Was it ugly? I don't understand the opposition.

switzerland still has some sort of character in landscapes, old cities, like, uhm, hundreds of years old? so that doesnt really fit that picture..

opposing a sign of islamisation; opposing radicalism is probably a fake one, but they put it out.

integration; if you and your wifey go to the emirates, she better be wearing their "fashion", it is expected to respect our culture here as well.

some of the top of my head..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 2,400]

> but that wont stop people from collecting signatures to pass laws from
>"the people" directly..

Agreed. But here, if you collected even 200 million signatures to return blacks to slavery, the Supreme Court would consult the US Constitution and say "sorry, the new law is invalid; says so right here."

[christelsabine 1]

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But why did they oppose it? Was it because of the noise? Was it ugly? I don't understand the opposition.

Read the fllw, referring to my home town:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Mosque_project

That might give you an idea, why many "voices" oppose to the building of mosques.

(In all fairness I have to add that, with our local muslims we do not face much more troubles than with the rest of our folks. It's just a smooth mixture of various cultures, living together with more or less problems. But, that's just Cologne, might be different in other places in Germany or in Switzerland.)

I'm not puffed up about the (our) new mosque and that surely will not be important enough to heist my dormancy

Switzerland should relax a bit more. Muslims are living there, give them a place of worship.

That quote of "quade"

- The absolute last thing I'd want is a 100 foot speaker tower built next to my house blasting calls to prayers every morning at fucking dawn and four more times throughout the day. -

would be a much bigger deal of annoyance to me

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[masterblaster72 0]

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since the election is coming up this sunday, what's the take of the mostly americans on this place!?

I wouldn't care as long as;

1) They met zoning and building codes.
2) Noise pollution restrictions were firmly enforced.

The absolute last thing I'd want is a 100 foot speaker tower built next to my house blasting calls to prayers every morning at fucking dawn and four more times throughout the day.

And yes, that is the real purpose of a minaret. They way it looks and the religion it stands for is the least of my issues.

Not to mention that in some towns in Italy and Holland for example, Muslim immigrant communities build mosques, conduct their daily tower calls, and then later complain about the church bells and religious statues in town as an offense to their religion.

When my parents were immigrants in Switzerland and Germany in the 60's, they respectfully followed the customs of their host countries that were kind enough to give them the opportunity to earn a living away from their abject poverty in Italy. If the host country of a Muslim immigrant does not want minarets built, there are other countries in Europe that do allow them. They should feel free to move to those countries.

And for those complaining about religious intolerance, please do the same in regard to Saudi Arabia, where Christians cannot go to church -- because none are allowed to be built there.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[masterblaster72 0]

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I see the signs here in Zurich "ja zum minaret verboten"...if that's what the majority of the country wants, then they absolutely should be banned.

So you're a supporter of the tyrrany of the majority.

Why should 50.1% of a country be able to overrule the rights of the other 49.9%?

Because that's the way it works my friend...not an ideal system (recent American history shows that), but it's the best we've got.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[Ion01 1]

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since the election is coming up this sunday, what's the take of the mostly americans on this place!?

like, uhm, we have direct democracy here, so we can vote about all sorts of stuff..

Ever wonder why (or did you know) that the US is not a democracy but a republic and why?

James Madison said, "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention, have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property, and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death."

[Andy9o8 0]

Competing concerns (legitimate ones, that is) can be harmonized if people are willing to be mutually reasonable and cooperative. For example, one can have minarets, on religious grounds, but still enact noise regulations that limit any sound broadcast from houses of worship (which would include Muslim calls to prayer, the tolling of bells in Christian church steeples, etc.) to not more than "X" decibels, for "x" amount of time..... etc.