This Country is Coming Apart at Its Seams.

[mpohl 1]

Anybody else feels like this? For example,...

Some Parents Oppose Obama Speech to Students

By JAMES C. McKINLEY Jr. and SAM DILLON
Published: September 3, 2009
HOUSTON — President Obama’s plan to deliver a speech to public school students on Tuesday has set off a revolt among conservative parents, who have accused the president of trying to indoctrinate their children with socialist ideas and are asking school officials to excuse the children from listening.

[...]

Mr. Obama’s speech was announced weeks ago, but the furor among conservatives reached a fever pitch Wednesday morning as right-wing Web sites and talk show hosts began inveighing against it.

Mark Steyn, a Canadian author and political commentator, speaking on the Rush Limbaugh show on Wednesday, accused Mr. Obama of trying to create a cult of personality, comparing him to Saddam Hussein and Kim Jong-il, the North Korean leader.

The Republican Party chairman in Florida, Jim Greer, said he “was appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama’s socialist ideology.”

[...] NYTimes.

MY POINT? We can't even have our President talk to school-aged children w/o it becoming "ideologized"? Obama = Kim Jong-il? I have to wonder what's UNITED about the United States anymore?

[kbordson 8]

It's a trust issue.

Not everyone trusts the government.

Not everyone wants political speeches to be directed at their children.

Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

[quade 3]

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It's a trust issue.
Not everyone trusts the government.
Not everyone wants political speeches to be directed at their children.
Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

And there is a name for them; PARANOID.

WTF? Since when is that even vaguely appropriate? Not in my lifetime.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kbordson 8]

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It's a trust issue.
Not everyone trusts the government.
Not everyone wants political speeches to be directed at their children.
Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

And there is a name for them; PARANOID.

WTF? Since when is that even vaguely appropriate? Not in my lifetime.

Ya know... just because you might have complete trust that the government is there to help, but that doesn't mean that every one is.

When I was in the military, I expected a level of oversight by the Government. Being a Free Citizen, it's none of their business.

[kbordson 8]

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It's a trust issue.
Not everyone trusts the government.
Not everyone wants political speeches to be directed at their children.
Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

And there is a name for them; PARANOID.

WTF? Since when is that even vaguely appropriate? Not in my lifetime.

But... ya know. If you would rather revert to name calling, go for it. It really adds to an understanding of those that might think differently from you.

[lawrocket 3]

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It's a trust issue.
Not everyone trusts the government.
Not everyone wants political speeches to be directed at their children.
Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

And there is a name for them; PARANOID.

WTF? Since when is that even vaguely appropriate? Not in my lifetime.

I think the school visits are appropriate.

But I mistrust the federal government. Who am I bullshitting - I mistrust all government.

What's he gonna say to the kids? "Plant an organic garden, but check for arsenic first!"

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,400]

>Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type
>speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

Exactly. Ask not what you can do for your country; demand instead that no one bother you.

[kbordson 8]

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>Not everyone believes that this will be a "state of the nation" type
>speech, rather a required infomercial on how to be a good "supporter."

Exactly. Ask not what you can do for your country; demand instead that no one bother you.

Not having children myself, I can only speculate on what parents might feel...

But IF someone that I didn't trust wanted committed school time... time that they should be learning math, science, English... to preach their political OR religious values, I would not be happy about that.

It's not a matter of being "bothered" but nice of you to try to devalue their opinions.

[billvon 2,400]

>But IF someone that I didn't trust wanted committed school time...
>time that they should be learning math, science, English... to preach their
>political OR religious values, I would not be happy about that.

And if a policeman were to address them on the value of being a good law abiding citizen? Would you pull your children out of the assembly, lest they hear something you might consider political?

I find it especially ironic that the same political group that supports prayer in school is HORRIFIED! HORRIFIED! that the president of the United States might want to speak to children as well as adults. (Not saying you share those sentiments on prayer.) Interesting to see how their feelings on free speech change when they disagree with the content of what's said.

[Bolas 5]

Have presidents done this much in the past? I don't remember it happening when I was a kid...

Can't say the pledge, but hafta listen to the pres?

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kbordson 8]

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>But IF someone that I didn't trust wanted committed school time...
>time that they should be learning math, science, English... to preach their
>political OR religious values, I would not be happy about that.

And if a policeman were to address them on the value of being a good law abiding citizen? Would you pull your children out of the assembly, lest they hear something you might consider political?

I find it especially ironic that the same political group that supports prayer in school is HORRIFIED! HORRIFIED! that the president of the United States might want to speak to children as well as adults. (Not saying you share those sentiments on prayer.) Interesting to see how their feelings on free speech change when they disagree with the content of what's said.

But, this isn't "Free Speech" - this is the Government requiring children to listen to politics. Children old enough to be studying PoliSci - fine. But younger ones, nope....

With respect to your religious topics - If lil susie wants to pray, fine. But if Pope Benedict XVI wanted to speak with all the children, I'm sure that wouldn't be labeled by anyone as "Free Speech."

[quade 3]

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- this is the Government requiring children to listen to politics.

The President's talk is going to be about staying in school and getting good grades. That is the stated purpose of the talk. FAR less controversial than say, "Say no to Drugs."

For the love . . . click the above link.

What have you been reading or listening to that leads you to believe otherwise?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kbordson 8]

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- this is the Government requiring children to listen to politics.

The President's talk is going to be about staying in school and getting good grades. That is the stated purpose of the talk. FAR less controversial than say, "Say no to Drugs."

For the love . . . click the above link.

What have you been reading or listening to that leads you to believe otherwise?

AS I HAVE SAID, I do NOT have any children. So all of this is truly academic discussion on my part.

But viewing it from the perspective of a parent that might not trust the government, I can understand their level of distrust with respect to this "talk."

I don't know whether the teachers should feel appreciative or insulted by the government telling them what to teach by sending out the teaching guidelines on discussions. I don't know if the parents should be relieved that their children are getting such "quality" government sanctioned education or suspicious. And ... children watching political ads... unless it's bright and animated, you KNOW they generally don't want to be there.

If YOU would want to have your children there. FINE. but why do you even give a flying f about what other parents would want with their children?

Get over yourself.

Other parents don't have to follow your lead. She can or can not breastfeed as she desires. They can or can not raise them as Catholic or Jewish or Islam or Wiccan. They can encourage Republican or Democrat or Independent beliefs. They can home school to avoid ALL this drama. Or they can be selective in the exposures that they subject their children too.

WHEN DID WE START CRITICIZING PARENTS FOR WANTING TO RAISE THEIR CHILDREN BEST THEY CAN?! Oh yes... there have ALWAYS been judgmental peoples out there - as evidenced by this entire forum. So lets get more government involvement cuz that will surely fix it. Right?

[RhondaLea 3]

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Not having children myself, I can only speculate on what parents might feel...

Speaking as a parent, I would've have been thrilled had my child been given the opportunity to hear a sitting president speak. Period.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[quade 3]

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. . . but why do you even give a flying f about what other parents would want with their children?

Because this entire controversy doesn't have a thing to do with what you're talking about. It's a completely artificial piece of bullshit to give people something to bitch about Obama and is being promoted as such by people like; Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

Fucking idiot right wing talking heads would rather have their listeners get fired up about bullshit issues than have an actual discussion about things that would help America. Things like kids finishing school and getting good educations.

I will never in a million years understand how these assholes can do that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[pilot-one 0]

Speaking as a parent my kids will NOT be attending school on Tuesday. It's not so much about trusting the system or the government but about trusting Obama. I'm sorry but the man cannot be trusted. Period.

[kbordson 8]

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. . . but why do you even give a flying f about what other parents would want with their children?

Because it's this entire controversy doesn't have a thing to do with what you're talking about. It's a completely artificial piece of bullshit to give people something to bitch about Obama being promoted by people like; Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh.

Fucking idiot right wing talking heads would rather have their listeners get fired up about bullshit issues than have an actual discussion about things that actually would help America. Things like kids actually finishing school and getting good educations.

I will never in a million years understand how these assholes can do that.

I don't listen to Beck or O'Reilly or Limbaugh. I try not to insult those that do believe them. Likewise, I try not to insult those that don't.

I am suspicious of government involvement. I have stated that WELL prior to this past election. I am NOT so naive to believe that the government is there to bring bunny rabbits and rainbows. Some chose to be more trusting.... fine. But don't insult those that aren't.

[RhondaLea 3]

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I will never in a million years understand how these assholes can do that.

Ratings.

Sensationalism attracts viewers, so that's where the money goes. It's all about advertising.

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[kbordson 8]

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I will never in a million years understand how these assholes can do that.

Ratings.

Sensationalism attracts viewers, so that's where the money goes. It's all about advertising.

Advertising? Like a PSA from a Nascar drivers to tell students to watch the President?

[quade 3]

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I am suspicious of government involvement.

Just out of curiosity, are you also suspicious of say, the President's Council on Physical Fitness? Or, is that also some sort of Commie plot to indoctrinate and corrupt American's youth?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[riddler 0]

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Have presidents done this much in the past? I don't remember it happening when I was a kid...

Yes. For instance, George Bush Jr. was on route to an elementary school classroom when the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks started. His response was well-documented, of course:

http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[RhondaLea 3]

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Speaking as a parent my kids will NOT be attending school on Tuesday. It's not so much about trusting the system or the government but about trusting Obama. I'm sorry but the man cannot be trusted. Period.

Funny. That's how I felt about Bush, the younger*--vehemently, I might add--but had my daughter been given the opportunity to hear a sitting president speak, I would have done everything I could to be sure she did not miss out.

That's not to say that I wouldn't have used it as a springboard for discussion, but then again, I'm more inclined to have a child of mine make her own choices, rather than adopt mine without any critical thought.

(*I voted for his dad--actually, I took my daughter with me and let her push the levers. She was quite young, but even then, we discussed the reasons why I chose him over the other candidates.)

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[kbordson 8]

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I am suspicious of government involvement.

Just out of curiosity, are you also suspicious of say, the President's Council of Physical Fitness? Or, is that also some sort of Commie plot to indoctrinate and corrupt American's youth?

Just to appease your curiosity - PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY should play a larger role on a childs growth and development than the government having a "council." Even when it was Arnie. The "say no to drugs" thing in the 80's... nope. Didn't agree with that.

My step dad was instrumental in MANY Wisconsin laws that I didn't agree with - Helmet laws on motorcycles; raising the drinking age to 21; supporting government spending on the Miller Stadium.... It's not that the laws were or weren't "good for society." I just don't like Government mandates. It's NOT that it's a "commie plot" - so drop that bullshit. I just believe more in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND RIGHTS. I have had MANY respectful discussions with my step father about these beliefs. He might not have agreed with my opinion, but he was still not so immature to pull such low comments.

Do you truly have an inability to understand that others have different beliefs or are you just stirring it up?

And here's a question

If you had had children, say 6-9 years old and lil mary jane was required to watch a speech by President Bush, what would be your opinion on that? Even if he was "just" going to be talking on "staying in school."


edit to add - NOTE: I did NOT select the name mary jane as any insinuation that you may or may not use any illicit substance

[quade 3]

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PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY should play a larger role on a childs growth and development than the government having a "council."

Then I actually think you'd like what Obama is going to say. Pity for those with minds so closed they will deny their children that opportunity. Here is what he's had to say on the topic in the recent past. My guess is you've not seen it. You might want to take a moment to do so.

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If you had had children, say 6-9 years old and lil mary jane was required to watch a speech by President Bush, what would be your opinion on that? Even if he was "just" going to be talking on "staying in school."

I'd have no problem with it at all. Contrary to popular belief on this forum, I don't think everything our 43rd President was evil and I certainly wouldn't demonize him in the eyes of kids when it comes to things like him talking about them staying in school and their personal responsibility for them to get a good education.

That would be silly.

The people promoting the idea that kids shouldn't listen to this talk are, in my mind, just as silly as the people that protested Harry Potter being available in school libraries because it had "witchcraft" in it.

BTW, I would never name a kid "Mary Jane." Come on.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kbordson 8]

Do you truly have an inability to understand that others have different beliefs or are you just stirring it up?