Stephen Hawking wouldnt stand a chance if he were British.

[dreamdancer 0]

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In an email to Conservative Party workers, details which were published on his blog, Mr Cameron said millions of people, including his own family, were grateful for care they had received from the NHS.

Mr Cameron said: "Just look at all the support which the NHS has received on Twitter over the last couple of day.

"It is a reminder - if one were needed - of how proud we in Britain are of the NHS.

"One of the wonderful things about living in this country is that the moment you're injured or fall ill - no matter who you are, where you are from, or how much money you've got - you know that the NHS will look after you."

The latest controversy has been sparked by President Barack Obama's plans to reform the the American healthcare system.

Republican critics have used the example of the NHS to attack the president's proposals, branding them as "Orwellian" and "evil".

That in turn has prompted a backlash in Britain, with thousands of people, including Prime Minister Gordon Brown and his wife Sarah, sighing up to an online Twitter campaign to defend the NHS.

Such is the popularity of the campaign - called welovetheNHS - that the site crashed earlier this week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/6027839/David-Cameron-accuses-Tory-MEP-of-being-eccentric-in-NHS-row.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[azdiver 0]

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>nah - obama already said it's better for granny to get a pain pill rather than the pacemaker.

I have a friend who is dealing with end-of-life issues with her mother. She took great care of her body, to the extent that her doctors expect her to live another five years.

Unfortunately, her mind is gone. She can't walk, talk, or (often) even eat. She wears a diaper. They are trying to decide whether to put her on a feeding tube, but that seems like a bad path to take to them. They'd ask her if they could, because it's a really tough decision. Keep a body without a mind another five years, or let her body die?

If you asked her kids whether she should get a pacemaker to help her live another 10 years instead of another 5, they'd probably slam the door in your face.

She never saw a doctor about end-of-life issues, so she doesn't have a living will. Good on you for trying to make sure more elderly suffer through this nightmare.

how's someone not having been through end of life counseling, going to cause more elderly to suffer, the decision falls to closest living relative e.g wife,husband, son, daughter, mother, father, ect. I know from personal exp.

light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak

[wmw999 2,242]

If the elder has thought about how they want that time handled, and communicated it with their family, then it's very comforting to the family. Because they KNOW they're doing the right thing.

If they haven't, then people tend to be more aggressive. Which is fine if that's what the person wants. But sometimes it isn't. Or maybe they want to be aggressive, up to a point -- but they have to let folks know where that point is.

That's why it's important. Because not everyone considers what it means to be intubated for breathing and feeding -- no one ever thinks it will happen to them. And it might not. But it might.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[shropshire 0]

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Oh what a shocker .. people cherry picking statistics to suit their personal agenda

8 out of 10 people do that...

and the other 2 would if they knew how

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rivetgeek 0]

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Oh what a shocker .. people cherry picking statistics to suit their personal agenda

8 out of 10 people do that...

and the other 2 would if they knew how

82.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[dks13827 3]

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Why do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, ranked 37th in the world by the WHO in 2000? (World Health Organisation, not the band.)

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Vortex that is a false or misleading stat. people from all over the world come here for treatment, that's one thing that is true. The vast majority of us are treated quite well ( my folks and kids have been ). That is another true statement. Then there are all the crack babies and ghetto homicides that distort the figures. You will hate that comment, but it is indeed true.

[SpeedRacer 1]

My grandmother died early this year (January) after a long, slow decline (she was 95). But a few years earlier, she had had a *gasp* end-of-life dicussion with her doctor & my mother & my aunt. They all agreed that there would be no extreme intervention if she began to die. ie, she was close to 90 when they had the discussion, and probably wouldn't survive surgery, & didn't want to linger on with a feeding tube.

So end-of-life discussions were going on (paid by Medicare) under the Bush administration!!!!

Speed Racer
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[redlegphi 0]

So what you're saying is GWB wants to kill Palin's grandchild? Interesting.

[Dewhast 0]

I'm glad to see someone questioning data. I agree and would really like to see the complete list and the direct country to country comparison but I cannot seem to find it. I brought up this data more to show the difference between measurable numbers (5 year survival rate) and the criteria the WHO used.

WHO's assessment system was based on five indicators:

1. overall level of population health

2. health inequalities (or disparities) within the population

3. overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts)

4. distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system)

5. the distribution of the health system's financial burden within the population (who pays the costs)

I do not see a single one of these indicators as "cut-and-dry".

Also, it did mention access to health care.

"The researchers suggest that white and black people receive diagnoses in different stages of the disease, have unequal access to health care, and are different in complying with treatment."

But again it is what they suggest and not a real finding.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=13908

This other article also references this study and says the following:

"the study showed that survival rates were affected by health insurance. Survival was highest among patients with private insurance, "intermediate" among those with national insurance, and lowest among those with none, the study found."

Maybe there are people who are happy with "intermediate", but if it was someone I loved, I would want nothing but the best.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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So what you're saying is GWB wants to kill Palin's grandchild? Interesting.

yep. He wants to go up to Alaska & shoot him from a helicopter.

Speed Racer
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[billvon 2,592]

>how's someone not having been through end of life counseling, going
>to cause more elderly to suffer . . .

Because the family will not know their wishes. This may result in them living in pain and dementia for years instead of doing what they would have wished.

And from personal experience, that puts the family through a lot of pain as well. It's not easy to decide to let someone you love die - especially when you've never talked about it with them, and they've never talked to their doctor about it.

Working to keep this option from people is, IMO, both cruel and shortsighted.

[Skyrad 0]

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I do not see a single one of these indicators as "cut-and-dry".

Nothing in Healthcare ever is 'cut and dry'. as for wanting the best, some people can't afford the best, thats the whole point.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Why do so many Americans defend their healthcare system, ranked 37th in the world by the WHO in 2000? (World Health Organisation, not the band.)

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Vortex that is a false or misleading stat. people from all over the world come here for treatment, that's one thing that is true. The vast majority of us are treated quite well ( my folks and kids have been ). That is another true statement. Then there are all the crack babies and ghetto homicides that distort the figures. You will hate that comment, but it is indeed true.

Of course people come from all over the world to the USA for medical treatment, after all there are 154 countries with an even worse Healthcare system than the one in the USA (not Morocco, Chile, Dominica, Costa Rica, Colombia, Greece, Malta, Oman, Saudi Arabia or France mind you, but there are still 154 worse off countries than the USA when it comes to healthcare)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jgoose71 0]

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>how's someone not having been through end of life counseling, going
>to cause more elderly to suffer . . .

Because the family will not know their wishes. This may result in them living in pain and dementia for years instead of doing what they would have wished.

And from personal experience, that puts the family through a lot of pain as well. It's not easy to decide to let someone you love die - especially when you've never talked about it with them, and they've never talked to their doctor about it.

Working to keep this option from people is, IMO, both cruel and shortsighted.

It's hard for me to say an "End of life discussion" is a medical thing. I have a living will with a DNR clause (Do not recesitate). Of course, not everyone has a will. Being in the military, these services are provided to me free of charge (go figure, free wills for the military)

But either way, I had to make sure it was done. Being a sky diver and in the military I wanted to make sure that the burden of such a decision would not be placed on my family. I care to much to place a decision like that on them. Personal responsibility and all, oh wait, everyone wants the government to make these decisions now.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

As I stated above, I believe everyone should have a will of some sort. I don't want to leave my legacy to chance.

I read the article and they said that the qualifying pages are 425 to 430. I couldn't find a website that displayed the actual pages. Does anyone know what the paragraph numbers are? I usually go to the open congress web site for these maters. Here is the actual health care bill.
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text
It is to long and and has to much leagalize for me (ie: as mentioned in paragraph X subsection y line z) I can't follow it when scanning for particular items. Is the item everyone complaining about that the bill just wants you to address the DNR issue as the article suggests? Or are there specific items that lead a person to believe that health care will be rationed?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[dreamdancer 0]

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Barack Obama's stepmother: I owe my life to the NHS.

Doctors and nurses saved Kezia Obama during a visit to Britain seven years ago, when she suffered chronic kidney failure.

The 66-year-old, who now lives in Bracknell, Berkshire, said she would never have been able to afford healthcare if she had been in America at the time.

Ms Obama told the News of the World: "It's very simple: I owe my life to the NHS.

"If it wasn't for the NHS I wouldn't have been alive to see our family's greatest moment - when Barack became President and was sworn into the White House."

The intervention came after Republicans branded the NHS "evil" and "Orwellian" amid a major row over Mr Obama's plans for US healthcare reform.

Ms Obama said she fell seriously ill during a summer visit to Britain seven years ago.

"I suffered severe kidney failure and pancreatic problems so there was a very real chance I might not have made it," she said.

"I was very down at the time but luckily I was here in Britain, in what was then a foreign country to me, where the doctors, nurses and surgeons cared for me like I was their own child."

The widow, who attended President Obama's inauguration in January, turned to the NHS again five years ago when she needed two hip replacement operations.

"If I'd been asked to pay for my new hips, well, I wouldn't have been able to afford them," she said. "I would have without a doubt ended up confined to a wheelchair."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6035638/Barack-Obamas-stepmother-I-owe-my-life-to-the-NHS.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[dreamdancer 0]

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An American neocon defends the NHS.

Carol Gould may belong to the American political Right, but witnessing how the NHS cared for her severely ill British friend gave her a new repect for "socialised" medicine.

In the wake of the public outcry in the United States that has seen the conservative pundit Rush Limbaugh apparently compare universal health care to some sort of neo-Nazi Reich I thought I would recount a story from earlier this year. Let me make my political leanings clear from the outset: I am a neocon. Having supported the Cheney-Rumsfeld-Bush triumvirate and their Iraq and Afghanistan interventions I have duly enraged thousands who listen to me on the BBC and watch me on Sky and Press TV. Notwithstanding this my views on universal health care are strictly Socialist.

From November 2008 to March 2009 I lived in a parallel universe. It is a universe in which many may have dwelt: the world of Life Support in Intensive Care. But more than that it has been a story of British health care at its magnificent best.

In mid-November my close friend Dee rang to tell me she was feeling odd. She was house-sitting for a friend in London and said she had eaten some freshly-baked soda bread from a new patisserie in St John’s Wood and had begun to feel ill. When she worsened I began to think that the bread had been destined for a Russian oligarch or Litvinenko-esque exile, as her symptoms were so severe. On day two she told me she was riven with fever and chills; I told her it was ‘flu but she said she would see a homeopath.

Within a day she was in hospital. She was on Life Support at St. Mary’s Hospital, where the prognosis was 50-50.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/6048367/An-American-neocon-defends-the-NHS.html

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[tkhayes 190]

you mean the individual ratings like infant mortality (lower in Canada and many other countries) or life expectancy (higher in Canada and many other countries)

I could go on, but why bother - I am trying to teach a pig to sing - wastes my time and probably annoys the pig......

[mnealtx 0]

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you mean the individual ratings like infant mortality (lower in Canada and many other countries) or life expectancy (higher in Canada and many other countries)

Actually, the ratings like "responsiveness" (#1) and "performance (on level of health) (#1) - you know, the ratings that actually SHOW how effective the healthcare is?

Infant mortality - Asked and answered over and over - get the rest of the world using the same criteria the US does for live birth, or let the US use the same criteria some of the rest of the world do and lets revisit it in 10 years. IOW, the 'infant mortality' arguments are EXTREMELY skewed - not that you'll admit it.

Life expectancy - When you can explain how medical treatment has much effect on life expectancy except at the end-stage or in chronic illness, let me know. Until then, I'll agree with the medical professionals that say that diet, exercise and genetics are much more important in regards to that.

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I could go on, but why bother - I am trying to teach a pig to sing - wastes my time and probably annoys the pig......

I don't see it as a waste of time - after all, I'm getting information out there that might actually get someone to open their eyes and look at something besides soundbites.

I don't have any clue if it annoys you or not.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706