antonija 0 #101 August 14, 2009 QuoteRight, and those tests constituted proof of their theories. Which is what I said. No, you said that Manhattan project led to deaths of thousands of people and blamed scientists for that. The correct to put it would be that Manhattan projects' goal was to determine if a nuclear device can be built in reality and they proved it can. They than handed it over to other people who used it (in name of freedom, nationalism and patriotism) to murder innocent civilians. One could argue that they are guilty of the crime by simply being involved, but the law disagree with you; gun manufacturers are not prosecuted for crimes committed with their product so this should apply to everyone (being equal and all). QuoteWhat the heck are you talking about? Fervent patriotism and nationalism are still propagated. I know. It worries me ever so much. QuoteAnd the Nazis are allowed to "do public get-togethers. No, they aren't. However they did find some holes in the regulations to have public marches or something like that... QuoteThey have as much right to have parades as you have to protest those parades. Actually they don't. Freedom of speech does not equal threatening another human being or abuse them or deny them their basic human rights in any way. Free speech is not the same type of "free" as free beer. But if you really feel that US constitution guarantees the right to threaten and endanger anyone's life and well-being... than I got every right to say some very nasty words about you, describe nasty ways of causing you discomfort (all public ofcourse) and I would be protected by constitution. I sure hope that is not the case simply because I'd hate it if some one had done that to me so I'll do my best not to do it to the others.I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #102 August 14, 2009 >No, you said that Manhattan project led to deaths of thousands of people . . . It did. >and blamed scientists for that. And pilots, and their commanders, and the president. It took a lot of people to pull those bombings off. >One could argue that they are guilty of the crime by simply being >involved . . . Well: 1) there was no 'crime' - what they did was legal 2) when you read what they themselves wrote, many people who worked on the Manhattan Project DID blame themselves partly for what happened, and have wondered if they did the right thing by working on a device whose only purpose was death and destruction on an unheard-of scale. >No, they aren't. http://www.americannaziparty.com/ Indeed, they have marched. One famous Nazi parade was in Skokie, Illinois. The town tried to deny them a permit; the case went to the Supreme Court and they were eventually given a permit. The Nazis were represented by a Jewish lawyer, who valued the Bill of Rights over his personal feelings on the case. >However they did find some holes in the regulations to have >public marches or something like that... Yes. That "hole" you refer to is the First Amendment. >But if you really feel that US constitution guarantees the right to >threaten and endanger anyone's life and well-being... No, it doesn't. >than I got every right to say some very nasty words about you, >describe nasty ways of causing you discomfort (all public ofcourse) and >I would be protected by constitution. No, you're not protected either. If you say "I am going to shoot you/stab you/burn your house down and lynch you" you can be arrested for threatening to commit a serious crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
antonija 0 #103 August 14, 2009 Quote1) there was no 'crime' - what they did was legal 2) when you read what they themselves wrote, many people who worked on the Manhattan Project DID blame themselves partly for what happened, and have wondered if they did the right thing by working on a device whose only purpose was death and destruction on an unheard-of scale. History is written by winners most of the time... and dropping A-bomb on a city was written to not be criminal act. Latest analysis of the event I know of described it as horrendous evil act that prevented even more people dying if US was to invade Japan from the sea. However they never claimed that this fact makes it allright (even if there is no law that would make them guilty). Quote>No, they aren't. http://www.americannaziparty.com/ I was thinking about the nazi marches they have in germany each year. I was kinda hoping that it only happens there because we don't get many news reports of nazis having public meetings in other countries. My bad. QuoteNo, you're not protected either. If you say "I am going to shoot you/stab you/burn your house down and lynch you" you can be arrested for threatening to commit a serious crime. Just what exactly is the difference between saying "I'm going to kill you you bloody Jew" or saying "all Jews should be exterminated and we'll do our best to make it happen" to some one who is Jewish? Why would the first quote be illegal and second one legal? P.S.: I can understand that a court made a decision that says they have right to make such public claims but then again it's our personal responsibility to make sure we don't fuck others any more than we'd like them to fuck us.I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #104 August 14, 2009 >Just what exactly is the difference between saying "I'm going to kill >you you bloody Jew" or saying "all Jews should be exterminated and we'll >do our best to make it happen" to some one who is Jewish? Same as the difference between someone who advocates a genocidal war between Islam and "civilized society" (for everyone's protection, of course) and who tells a specific Muslim "I'm going to kill you." While I disagree with both, one is a political opinion and the other is a death threat. And at least here in the US, we protect the rights of people with political opinions, even if they are mind-numbingly stupid. Imagine, for example, a law that said you cannot advocate violence in any form. You could be arrested for "supporting the troops" or being in favor of capital punishment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #105 August 15, 2009 Bill, those men knew exactly what they were building and how it would be used. They weren't wrong for doing it. They only feigned ignorance when they found the light much like RonD1120. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pbwing 0 #106 August 15, 2009 QuoteAm I narrow minded because I refuse to believe in Santa? Absolutely not. What does make you narrow minded is when you publicly ridicule those who do believe in Santa and teach others to do the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #107 August 16, 2009 Quote Quote Am I narrow minded because I refuse to believe in Santa? Absolutely not. What does make you narrow minded is when you publicly ridicule those who do believe in Santa and teach others to do the same. Fixed. cos you cannot possibly by serious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #108 August 16, 2009 I haven't really given much thought to evolution in New Zealand. I also don't "have to pretend" to believe in anything. I am a practicing Christian, but one with a lot of doubts. I doubt whether Jesus was actually God and even doubt that he considered himself anything like that. But that's just for instance. I don't have any problems with evolution either, though some of my more fundamentalist friends have assured me that this flaw in my thinking will send me to hell ("whatever..."). But I have a real problem with people who have nothing better to do than bait believing Christians with cheap shot arguments over obscure points of belief. Unlike some of my more conservative American brethren, I'm not interested in telling you how to live your life. I don't care whether you believe or not, or what you believe in, short of human sacrifice (which I am against...). So what's with the cheap shot ? Don't you have anything better to do, like go and mow the lawn ? Or make a skydive ? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 64 #109 August 16, 2009 This entire discussion will never have an ending because you cannot use LOGIC in a debate or question concerning someone's BELIEF! Belief and logic will never agree. It is a belief and there is nothing logical about it. It doesn't have to be logical.Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #110 August 17, 2009 Quote Absolutely not. What does make you narrow minded is when you publicly ridicule those who do believe in Santa and teach others to do the same. The difference here is that those who believe in Santa do not try to change how those who do not believe in Santa should live their lives.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #111 August 20, 2009 Check out the attachment, i scored this yesterday at a concert, so perfect!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
