Hey christians, riddle me this?

[riddler 0]

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D&D is serious stuff to many people.

+1 to hit for Remster. Damage will be 2D4+3.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Remster 24]

2D4+3? What the fuck do you think I'm using: The Knitting Needle of Mercy?

Remster

[tr027 0]

Rhys,

The only way to begin to possibly understand anything in the bible is to remember you cannot apply logic, reason, common sense, consistency, or anything related to objective reality/truth. Once you discard those you'll be much more receptive to the wildly self-contradictory concepts and subjective reality(ies). That's why it's taught mainly to kids who have an easier time discarding those things.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[RonD1120 58]

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The only way to begin to possibly understand anything in the bible is ...

to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which occurs when you accept Jesus Christ as deity, propitiation for sin, and resurrected. That is a decision from the heart not the mind. When you truly and passionately surrender to God's plan a magnificent transformation occurs.

I am not saying this to anger you but to explain the process.

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The New Man

Ephesians 4:17 (NKJV) This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of[d] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[antonija 0]

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We studied God's will and plan.

How on earth can you study something that is be default incomprehensible to all mankind? Or is it that all men are created equeal, but those that study Genesis are more equal than others and can actually understand gods will and plan?

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[RonD1120 58]

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We studied God's will and plan.

How on earth can you study something that is be default incomprehensible to all mankind? Or is it that all men are created equeal, but those that study Genesis are more equal than others and can actually understand gods will and plan?

As I have stated before, I am a Christian counselor and focus on NT application to life's problems.

To understand the Bible, it really is comprehensible, requires the proper exegesis of Scripture. Rstanley0312 is our resident OT scholar. I suggest you refer your question to him.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[antonija 0]

It was you who said you studied gods plan and will. I don't recall hearing that gods plan is above human understanding directly from you, but I've heard it so many times I thought it was agreed between christians that is the case.

So how could _you_ study something that can not be understood by a man ever?

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[RonD1120 58]

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It was you who said you studied gods plan and will. I don't recall hearing that gods plan is above human understanding directly from you, but I've heard it so many times I thought it was agreed between christians that is the case.

So how could _you_ study something that can not be understood by a man ever?

It was a 9 month study. It was understandable because of the brotherhood and fellowship from a group of men being guided by the Holy Spirit. See post #54.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[antonija 0]

So a man can understand will and plan of god? Because that would negate so many statements I heard from various people... and they "studied" it far longer than 9 months, some spent their entire lives and still say it is not possible to understand the will of god.

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[turtlespeed 212]

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2D4+3? What the fuck do you think I'm using: The Knitting Needle of Mercy?

No - you lost all your +? Items when your lost your green color in your name.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 212]

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So a man can understand will and plan of god? Because that would negate so many statements I heard from various people... and they "studied" it far longer than 9 months, some spent their entire lives and still say it is not possible to understand the will of god.

Not in it's entirety. The Bible gives you a basic understanding though.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 58]

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So a man can understand will and plan of god? Because that would negate so many statements I heard from various people... and they "studied" it far longer than 9 months, some spent their entire lives and still say it is not possible to understand the will of god.

I have been studying the Word of God for 28 years and I certainly don't understand everything, not by a long shot. However, I know how to search the Scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, pray and meditate on the Word, and to wait upon the Lord.

Fellowship with brothers and sisters in the Holy Spirit is very important to help clarify understanding. Fellowship is the primary purpose of the CHRISTIAN SKYDIVERS ASSOCIATION.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[antonija 0]

Let me get this straight:
You can understand the will of god except you can't.

I find that very confusing... to understand something (to me) means that I can find logical explanation of causes and effects. God is angry -> we get hailstorm would be one such (fictional) example.

But the author of this topic was asking about Noe and his arc. He also quoted (I think) the part of the bible that described (very detailed description I might add) of how that was supposed to work. He and few others fund that very hard to understand and were given the explanation that bible is in fact just stories, so it's quite safe to safe that it never happened or that it happened on much much much smaller level so it's probably not worth mentioning (after all a man putting few animals on a small boat is not nearly the same as someone taking every single animal in this world on a single boat for duration of... don't really know how long that flood was).

Yet after saying (I think it was you who said it) that bible can not and should not be taken literally you still claim to have studied it?

I don't mean to disrespect your beliefs but everything said does not make any sense at all. So what I would really like is just a simple straight answers to some basic questions like "can a man understand a will and plan of god?" and "is bible just collection of stories (used to illustrate some mans view of the world) or are they facts" and so on.

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[kallend 1,623]

What you don't understand is that it's a "heads I win, tails I win" religion. When something good happens, it's on account of God's plan. When something bad happens (like a Christian father allowing his young daughter to die without medical treatment) its just that we don't understand God's plan. When evidence contrary to the Bible is uncovered, it's all part of God's plan to prevent us knowing his plan.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pirana 0]

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Doesn't anyone else find it funny that God's answer to all the violence is to ... kill everyone and everything.

Uhh...God has a plan that us mere mortals could never understand.

i really like your avatar.. and find it very offensive, maybe the mods should look into this..

I never know that a yield sign was a gay thing. Must have missed that memo.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RonD1120 58]

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Let me get this straight:
You can understand the will of god except you can't.

I find that very confusing... to understand something (to me) means that I can find logical explanation of causes and effects. God is angry -> we get hailstorm would be one such (fictional) example.

But the author of this topic was asking about Noe and his arc. He also quoted (I think) the part of the bible that described (very detailed description I might add) of how that was supposed to work. He and few others fund that very hard to understand and were given the explanation that bible is in fact just stories, so it's quite safe to safe that it never happened or that it happened on much much much smaller level so it's probably not worth mentioning (after all a man putting few animals on a small boat is not nearly the same as someone taking every single animal in this world on a single boat for duration of... don't really know how long that flood was).

Yet after saying (I think it was you who said it) that bible can not and should not be taken literally you still claim to have studied it?

I don't mean to disrespect your beliefs but everything said does not make any sense at all. So what I would really like is just a simple straight answers to some basic questions like "can a man understand a will and plan of god?" and "is bible just collection of stories (used to illustrate some mans view of the world) or are they facts" and so on.

Let me refer you to the "Question for Fundamentalists" thread, Rstanley0312 posts #11, 21, 27 and 33.

Is it possible to understand God's will and plan? Yes, frequently in retrospect. Is the Bible a collection of stories? Yes and much more. Is it to illustrate man's view of the world? No, to reveal God's view.

In the Old Testament Jesus Christ is concealed. In the New Testament Jesus Christ is revealed.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rivetgeek 0]

Christianity (and basically all organized religion), is by almost definition, a concentrated effort to ignore the inconvenient scripture while touting the benefit of the advantageous scripture. If the bible is divine and Beyond all question, the either all of it must be true, or none of it.

How would you explain things like:


John 3:13
No man hath ascended up to heaven.

2 Kings 2:11
And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Hrm. Get your story straight, god.


Leviticus 25:17
Thou shalt fear thy God: for I am the LORD your God.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

This "god" guy sure does like to send mixed signals.

I'm not even going to get into the patently ridiculous "miracles" like Isaiah reversing the rotation of the earth or Elisha's bones bringing the dead back to life. Because the religious argument is to shrug and just rattle off "god works in mysterious ways". God may work in mysterious ways, but basic physics do not. I can test and repeat physics, the only proof of god is a 200 year old book that was written over 2 centuries by 40+ people and translated from 4 dead languages.

The bible DOES have some good advice, the ten commandments were a decent start (though to be fair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRYaMiP4K8).

But the bible as a whole is a collection of ancient superstitions. Same with all the other religious texts. Rules, laws and outright lies made to control a superstitious and uneducated population.

Almost all religious study is primarily not the study of religion, but a course in how to rationalize away the parts that no longer fit.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[RonD1120 58]

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the only proof of god is a 200 year old book that was written over 2 centuries by 40+ people and translated from 4 dead languages.

See my post #28.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rivetgeek 0]

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the only proof of god is a 200 year old book that was written over 2 centuries by 40+ people and translated from 4 dead languages.

See my post #28.

are you high? I mean really. Firstly, being from X number of authors over X years is proof of it NOT being the word of god. Its an ancient readers digest, thats all. A bunch of random stories (p.s. there were plenty of stories that didn't fit, they just ignored those)

Secondly...did you even read my post? I posted two contradictions in the bible that took me all of 30 seconds to find. The bible is almost nothing BUT contradictions. But instead of at least taking the sensible route of blaming mistranslations, you just claim they don't exist? Really? that's where you're gonna put your money?

Religion is a crutch for the weak minded to convince themselves that death isn't all that bad and that life has a purpose and we are all gonna go live forever and ever and 80-90 measly years on earth.

classical idea of heaven: white robes, harps, sinners tortured for your enjoyment. Came about during the roman persecutions.

Romans: wore white robes, played harps, watched christians tortured for their enjoyment....

If you cant see that heaven was just a fairy tale told to christians to keep them in line, you're deluded. At the very best it was a final neener neener from dying christian to their roman oppressors. Religion only "makes sense" if you suspend all belief in reality and put "faith" in something supernatural. If you called that something a toaster they would lock you up. Call it god and people just go along with it.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[maadmax 0]

are you high? I mean really. Firstly, being from X number of authors over X years is proof of it NOT being the word of god. Its an ancient readers digest, thats all. A bunch of random stories (p.s. there were plenty of stories that didn't fit, they just ignored those)

Secondly...did you even read my post? I posted two contradictions in the bible that took me all of 30 seconds to find. The bible is almost nothing BUT contradictions. But instead of at least taking the sensible route of blaming mistranslations, you just claim they don't exist? Really? that's where you're gonna put your money?

Religion is a crutch for the weak minded to convince themselves that death isn't all that bad and that life has a purpose and we are all gonna go live forever and ever and 80-90 measly years on earth.

classical idea of heaven: white robes, harps, sinners tortured for your enjoyment. Came about during the roman persecutions.

Romans: wore white robes, played harps, watched christians tortured for their enjoyment....

If you cant see that heaven was just a fairy tale told to christians to keep them in line, you're deluded. At the very best it was a final neener neener from dying christian to their roman oppressors. Religion only "makes sense" if you suspend all belief in reality and put "faith" in something supernatural. If you called that something a toaster they would lock you up. Call it god and people just go along with it.

[rivetgeek 0]

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I am one of those seekers, and for me the Bible is a profound piece of literature.

for the rest of the world, it belongs int he fiction section. People believe in dianetics too, doesn't make it not ridiculous.

~Bones Knit, blood clots, glory is forever, and chicks dig scars.~

[virgin-burner 1]

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I am one of those seekers, and for me the Bible is a profound piece of literature.

for the rest of the world, it belongs int he fiction section. People believe in dianetics too, doesn't make it not ridiculous.

at least scientology has its own secret service; THEY must be right!!!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[RonD1120 58]

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If you cant see that heaven was just a fairy tale told to christians to keep them in line, you're deluded.

If that were true, why doesn't it work? Why did psychiatrist M. Scott Peck refer to the belief as the "Road Less Traveled?"

A rule of thumb states that about 2% of any subgroup will be followers of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. It would seem that we are several standard deviations from the mean. Where are you in the measurement of central tendency?

I am not trying to be accusatory but to encourage you to do the math. Examine who is marching with the masses.

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Matthew 7 (New King James Version)
The Narrow Way

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

As for me and my house, we follow the Lord.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[virgin-burner 1]

i'm happy you're saved; i couldnt stand your constant brabbling for eternity..

me and my friends, we'll party like hell, right there..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[RonD1120 58]

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Many apparent contradictions in the Bible are resolved when they are evaluated with a little awareness of original language, historical setting, relevant cultures, idioms, etc. But there are some contradictions that ,do indeed, defy explanation. So what. For the spiritual seeker that has come to terms with their own personal need, the Bible is a Supernatural body of Wisdom pointing the way. It contains more than enough information that is understandable. When that information is combined with faith we are able to catch a fleeting glimpse of God's plan and purpose. And that experience is truly life changing. I am one of those seekers, and for me the Bible is a profound piece of literature.

...

I was in a men's prayer breakfast a while back. One of the members was a retired Green Beret NCO. Following the breakfast he made a poignant statement, "When you have the Holy Spirit in you, the Bible becomes the greatest love letter ever written and it is just for you."

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.