Racist photo?

[rhys 0]

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Damn! You saw right through me. Okay, I'll admit it: I'm a rhysist. Do you think counselling might help?

you didn't answer my questions.

What is it about slave trading that I got so wrong for you to have such a strong opinion about?

And did you kill the big five while you were there?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[kbordson 8]

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And did you kill the big five while you were there?

Your bias is showing.



(and for what it's worth, I have SEVERAL friends that game hunt. One even has a trophy room that I tend to refer to as the "Hall of Death". . . but just because it's something that I wouldn't do, does NOT mean that they are lesser people than me because they would do that. When you start feeling SUPERIOR because your beliefs are so much more "enlightened"... that's when you need to be careful to check your ego at the door. Likewise, you shouldn't judge a young woman that has an abortion in her past... which I think SHOULD hit pretty close to home here. Peoples decisions are based on his/her beliefs and expectations out of life. What the choice of one is does NOT have to be the choice of others. And acting "better" because you wouldn't hunt or you would NEVER have an abortion or you believe/don't believe in "alternative lifestyles" .... just shows that you're not "better.")

[likearock 1]

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And how is that different exactly from members of the right making ridiculous charges of racism against Sotomayor?

To wit:

“I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life,” said Judge Sotomayor.

Now, try transposing "wise Latina woman" and "white male", put it in the mouth of someone guilty of the latter and then imagine 'human rights' advocates suffering a collective case of the vapors. (You are following the logic here, aren't you?)

Oh yeah. What with all those lynch mobs of Latina women coming to string up white men, we'd better take care!

Point is both sides torture logic to make bogus claims of racism. When you only see the one side but not the other your bias is showing.

Your first paragraph is adolescent drivel.

No, it's called sarcasm and it points out how ridiculous the charge against Sotomayor was in the first place. But if you'd rather address it by using insults that just shows how poor your argument was in the first place.

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But the first sentence in the second paragraph is absolutely correct. The second sentence, however, reveals your bias in refusing to recognize that I deplore both, as my qualifying comment makes abundantly clear. Without a balanced perspective, rational decision-making is impossible. Better to be guided by fact than emotion, the latter a most unreliable basis for judging anything.

That's fine then. Up to right now, you were pretty much singling out the left alone for playing the race card. Glad we agree.

[rhys 0]

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(and for what it's worth, I have SEVERAL friends that game hunt. One even has a trophy room that I tend to refer to as the "Hall of Death". . . but just because it's something that I wouldn't do, does NOT mean that they are lesser people than me because they would do that. When you start feeling SUPERIOR because your beliefs are so much more "enlightened"... that's when you need to be careful to check your ego at the door.

Bullshit, GI jane.

The desire to kill 5 very large, potentilly endangered animals says alot about a person.

T'is not for food, nor self defence, it is blatant, un-necessary violence.

You condone such violence yourself, but those that actually have a heart, usually find this type of behavior completely unacceptable.

We all share this earth together, what gives some pompus git the right to kill and elephant, a lion, a rhino, a leopard and a Buffalo. for what?

An erection?!?

The logic of some people never ceases to amaze me!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[warpedskydiver 0]

I guess you think your PA's are going to be unnoticed but they are not.

You are certainly remembered for your treatment of others.

Calling her names is just so cool of you.

You must be a hero among your peers.

[rhys 0]

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I guess you think your PA's are going to be unnoticed but they are not.

I have not made any personal attacks.

I asssume, you are talking about the pompus git comment?

and assume it was directed at hooper?

He is yet to answer the question so I cannot assume he has or has not done so, i simply asked. I have met many long time english ex-pats in africa, most of them discussed the big 5. Some for photos; ! and some for hunting!

He may well be a vegetarian for all I know?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[dreamdancer 0]

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I guess you think your PA's are going to be unnoticed but they are not.

i notice you going round accusing many members of made-up personal attacks (which i would count almost as trolling) - why not get a real job

stay away from moving propellers - they bite
blue skies from thai sky adventures
good solid response-provoking keyboarding

[mnealtx 0]

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I guess you think your PA's are going to be unnoticed but they are not.

i notice you going round accusing many members of made-up personal attacks (which i would count almost as trolling)

Yes, I'm sure that he means "GI Jane" as a term of endearment.

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- why not get a real job

Speaking of...how much are you getting paid to plagiarize alternatereality.com, again?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Jim_Hooper 3]

Karen, Randall, Mike and Kevin –

We won’t agree on everything. We might even become moderately exercised in our debates. But that doesn’t presuppose the need to launch immature, personal attacks on each other for holding different opinions.

It’s worth keeping in mind that some people have never accomplished much in life. Rather than recognizing the reasons for their failures and working to correct them, they angrily blame those who, through hard work and determination, have enjoyed well-deserved successes. The most inadequate among them vent their anger through gratuitous insults, taking pleasure – because it draws attention to an otherwise empty existence – from the reactions of their targets. When the insults descend to deliberately offensive sexual references bearing no relation to the subject at hand, one has to wonder what lies behind it. Within their own peculiar little world, being disliked is twisted proof of their own superiority. Sort of a self-perpetuating mental scoliosis.

Not everyone succeeds at everything, but most recognize why, learn from the experience, and try again. Others are incapable of honest reflection. I’ve always found the following quote particularly apropos.

Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt

Hoop

[kbordson 8]

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The logic of some people never ceases to amaze me!

Again.

We are in agreement.

[rhys 0]

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It’s worth keeping in mind that some people have never accomplished much in life. Rather than recognizing the reasons for their failures and working to correct them, they angrily blame those who, through hard work and determination, have enjoyed well-deserved successes. The most inadequate among them vent their anger through gratuitous insults, taking pleasure – because it draws attention to an otherwise empty existence – from the reactions of their targets. When the insults descend to deliberately offensive sexual references bearing no relation to the subject at hand, one has to wonder what lies behind it. Within their own peculiar little world, being disliked is twisted proof of their own superiority. Sort of a self-perpetuating mental scoliosis.

After such a seemingly profound statemnt, would you care to share with us the reason you 'Snapped' so violently towards me when I mentioned that I had visited an old slave trading ,market in east africa?

I simply mentioned that the person telling me (a tanzanian) about it was uspet with the fact that human slave trading ever took place in his country.

You went on the personal attacks and talking about 'educated africans' as opposed to my friend that has a job, speaks 3 languages and is not a willing participant in the immense amount of corruption and oppression that is taking part in the regon.

You want to be all 'enlightened' but you are yet to explain why you had such a strong oposition to what I had said.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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Again.

We are in agreement. [Unsure]

It 'is' amazing that someone that wishes not to share (opposes socialism), is racist (condones racist behavior) and is violent (enjoys firing guns designed to kill humans), can sit here and qualify themselves as a higher souce of information.

well done you are amazing

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[wmw999 2,121]

I'm firing up a batch of popcorn -- anyone want some?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kbordson 8]

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Again.

We are in agreement. [Unsure]

It 'is' amazing that someone that wishes not to share (opposes socialism), is racist (condones racist behavior) and is violent (enjoys firing guns designed to kill humans), can sit here and qualify themselves as a higher souce of information.

Now, rhys... your personal bias is showing again. And, using your logic, just because you don't want to have to work for your dinner (opposes capitalism), support "violent" acts (to those that oppose abortion) and express xenophobic attitudes (as shown by many of your posts about your feelings toward Americans) doesn't mean that you're better than me.

And just for the record - yes, I do oppose socialism. Correct - With the rights of the First Amendment, I can not control others thoughts or deeds and so I "condone" racist behavoir. And I do greatly enjoy shooting guns. Especially my Thompson.

But, that is using faulty logic to say that I don't share, that I am racist or that I am violent.

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well done you are amazing

Thank you. I've agreed with you often in this thread.

[rhys 0]

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Now, rhys... your personal bias is showing again.

You should use the actual definitions rather than your own, here let me enlighten you;

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captalism

an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

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socialism

–noun
A theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

So in the end you state you oppose national forests, NASA, the USA military...?

You want everything to be owned by individuals or companies and strongly oppose the earths/nations recources being owned by the community as a whole.

How would you feel about your street being privatised, pay a buck eack time you come home?

Your logic toward racism is as flawed as your logic towards politics, selfish people deserve to be pointed out and ostracized not held up on a high horse.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[JohnDeere 0]

Havent read the whole thread and dont care to, but i have seen slavery mentioned in here. I always love it when idiots start talking about slavery and the evil white man, but never bring up the fact that there ancesters sold there people to our ancestors. It doesnt make it right but if you are going to complain about what happend then at least point out all of the idiots not just some

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[rhys 0]

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I always love it when idiots start talking about slavery and the evil white man, but never bring up the fact that there ancesters sold there people to our ancestors.

Someone who sells a human being of the same race, as themselves for slavery does not necessarily make them racist, they are simply being inhumane.

Having separate toilets and busses and schools for diffent coloured skin is racist.

Egyptians had slave of the same race, that is not racist.

Think before you speak, you are a hypocrite for using the word idiot in your transparent statement.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[wmw999 2,121]

WTF does that have to do with anything?

Let's not forget the idiots who drank the rum that the slaves made. Or the shippers who benefitted from taking rum to the colonies from the Caribbean. Or the sailors who went to get slaves before they found people who (for money -- remember that money makes everything OK?) were willing to sell someone out?

There were whites in the US who were against slavery, and for slavery, and who didn't give a flying fuck. Let's talk about them. And how about the native Americans (or should I call them Indians because it was good enough for our ancestors)? Let's not forget that they had slaves, too.

What else can we drag in?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kbordson 8]

ummmmm. did you miss that I don't TRULY believe that you are [insert random insulting term]?

I was just using YOUR faulty logic. If you don't like that logic, then don't use it.

[nigel99 144]

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(and for what it's worth, I have SEVERAL friends that game hunt. One even has a trophy room that I tend to refer to as the "Hall of Death". . . but just because it's something that I wouldn't do, does NOT mean that they are lesser people than me because they would do that. When you start feeling SUPERIOR because your beliefs are so much more "enlightened"... that's when you need to be careful to check your ego at the door.

Bullshit, GI jane.

The desire to kill 5 very large, potentilly endangered animals says alot about a person.

T'is not for food, nor self defence, it is blatant, un-necessary violence.

You condone such violence yourself, but those that actually have a heart, usually find this type of behavior completely unacceptable.

We all share this earth together, what gives some pompus git the right to kill and elephant, a lion, a rhino, a leopard and a Buffalo. for what?

An erection?!?

The logic of some people never ceases to amaze me!

I think that you will find that 99% of the african safari ventures that provide hunting of big game provide ALOT of conservation. It does not take much to see that from a purely selfish/business point of view it is in their best interests to maintain their stock at sustainable levels. As such they usually provide breeding programs, fencing and security for the animals and actually welfare as no-one wants to hunt some half starved animal that is disease ridden.

On top of this the vast majority of southern africa struggles to provide employment and the game ranching sector provides this. I think you will also find that in many cases the meat from elephant and buffalo is eaten and is not simply left to rot. As to hunting lion without managing the population it creates problems in the local community - come to think of it have a look at the "damage" that the ivory ban has inflicted on local populations in southern africa - I just love it when people place the lives of animals ABOVE that of humans There are also hunting licenses that put quite alot of money into government coffers.

With ANY sport people can critisize - for gods sake you are a skydiver and to quote someones sig line "burning fossil fuels for fun" you regularly endanger your life in a way that the vast majority of the worlds population would say is reckless and stupid.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Jim_Hooper 3]

Karen – you have a Thompson? Cool.

On the subject of socialism and slavery, allow me to pluck from a review I wrote a couple of years ago:

“Not having read any of Vonnegut's work for 30 years, I opened A Man Without a Country and remembered why I'd so assiduously avoided him. As a natural conservative I much enjoy the thrust and parry of lively political debate. But KV, like almost every socialist I've ever met, doesn't do debate, preferring mockery, innuendo, myth and willfully distorted facts. It's the superior sneer of the self-styled intellectual who doesn't know what he's talking about. His unwavering belief in doctrinal socialism brings to mind a line from Emerson: "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

His defence of Marx is mind-boggling. That he then manages to blend the benefits of Marxist ideology with the evils of slavery left me moderately bemused. (The American Indian, whose cause he champions, was something of a proto-Marxist and quite happily used slaves - or at least those not condemned to death by ritual torture.) His obsession with slavery and the inference that the United States was uniquely guilty of it is symptomatic of historical revisionism at its most banal. Slavery is a millennia-old, worldwide phenomenon, with a reasonable chance that many of us have distant ancestors who suffered it, “serfdom” being just another name for the phenomenon.

But during the period he's most exercised about, villainous white slavers didn't mount raids into the interior of Africa, they purchased stock from West African coastal chieftains, who enjoyed vast profits from the sale of fellow Africans. And who, after parliament made not just the trade but the ownership of slaves illegal in Britain in 1834, wrote letters of howling protest to the Crown that the new law was going to ruin them. Just as Vonnegut ignores the complicity of Africans in the trade, he also omits that it was white European stock that lobbied against and eventually outlawed what had existed in Africa for centuries before the arrival of the first Portuguese explorers, and continued long after it was banned by European and North American governments (or that it continues in some West African countries and parts of the Middle East – even today, the Arab word for “black” is ab’d, which is also the slang term for “slave”).

Unsurprisingly, he overlooks the enslavement of over a million Europeans by Barbary corsairs between 1500 and the mid-1800s. Spain and the Italian city states suffered the greatest depredations, but the North African raiders seized thousands of Irish, Cornish and Welsh and not an insignificant number of colonial American seamen. The latter led to the first foreign intervention by the US Navy in 1813 and the line from the Marine Corps hymn, “From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli”. [See Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters, Robert Davis (Palgrave MacMillan, 2003) and White Gold, Giles Milton (Hodder & Stoughton, 2004)]”

Asking if the involvement of Africans (or Indians or Chinese or Romans or Visigoths) in slavery excuses the involvement of pre-20th century Westerners is a stupid and pointless question: one cannot retroactively apply 21st century standards to what was acceptable in the past.

It’s always helpful to have a few historical facts at hand.

Hoop

[rhys 0]

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I much enjoy the thrust and parry of lively political debate.

So why do you avoid answering questions from those with oppsing opinions?

debate is debate, not smug conversations with your buddies!

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But during the period he's most exercised about, villainous white slavers didn't mount raids into the interior of Africa, they purchased stock from West African coastal chieftains, who enjoyed vast profits from the sale of fellow Africans.

Are these akin to your so called educated africans? The ones you continue to avoid talkng about, even though you used them as an example in your (very angry and strongly opinionated) entry into this conversation?

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It’s always helpful to have a few historical facts at hand.

Only if you make a point out of it, these open ended conversations are quite pointless.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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I think that you will find that 99% of the african safari ventures that provide hunting of big game provide ALOT of conservation. It does not take much to see that from a purely selfish/business point of view it is in their best interests to maintain their stock at sustainable levels. As such they usually provide breeding programs, fencing and security for the animals and actually welfare as no-one wants to hunt some half starved animal that is disease ridden.

maybe so, before you go too far, I do not oppsoe hunting, and in some cases it is needed. In Zimbabwe for instance there are too many elephants, but leopards are endagerd and NOBODY, has the right to kill one on purpose for fun.

Why do you think there are not many leopards or rhinos?

Conservation and stock protection are separate.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[JohnDeere 0]

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Someone who sells a human being of the same race, as themselves for slavery does not necessarily make them racist, they are simply being inhumane.

Buying someone (even if of a diff. race) doesn't make someone racist either

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Having separate toilets and busses and schools for diffent coloured skin is racist.

No shit? Can you show me where i said otherwise? Nope didn't think so.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[JohnDeere 0]

I never said it had anything to do with anything

I stated my opinion about slavery, and the irorny of the ignorant fucks that only point out the evil white man when talking about it!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!