rhaig 0 #701 March 3, 2010 QuoteQuoteLets stick to simple physics, that we as skydivers, should clearly understand. Being a skydiver does not qualify you to understand any physics. Many skydivers still don't understand why heavy people fall faster than light people, and think the wind hits them from behind when the I explained that over dinner one night to a commercial pilot at our table with a bunch of skydivers. Little did I know I was explaining it to the whole table. They all understood that it was true, but not why.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #702 March 3, 2010 How fast should it have fallen? Until you have some basis for an estimate based upon analysis or experiment, you cannot support your assertion that it was unusual. Perhaps it should have been slowed by 1%, maybe 10%. It makes a HUGE difference in that if it should have been slowed by something on the order of 1%, then you cannot expect measurement by video to be anywhere near accurate enough to capture that. How accurate do you think the measurement of the fall was? I assert the measurement upon which you rely so heavily is much less accurate than you realize, and it has nothing to do with the repeatability of someone using a stopwatch while watching a video. Many factors are involved that would contribute to the inaccuracy of such a measurement.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #703 March 3, 2010 > explain how you think it is possible for 'building 7' to collapse at free fall > speed through thepath of greatest resistance? Because the middle of the building had nothing in it (was a big atrium.) A big empty space is the path of least resistance - at least, once you remove the remaining structural elements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #704 March 3, 2010 Quote> explain how you think it is possible for 'building 7' to collapse at free fall > speed through thepath of greatest resistance? Because the middle of the building had nothing in it (was a big atrium.) A big empty space is the path of least resistance - at least, once you remove the remaining structural elements. With thermite & rockets planted by rabbits, of course. Dropped in by airplanes that can suddenly vanish without a trace.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #705 March 3, 2010 QuoteQuote> explain how you think it is possible for 'building 7' to collapse at free fall > speed through thepath of greatest resistance? Because the middle of the building had nothing in it (was a big atrium.) A big empty space is the path of least resistance - at least, once you remove the remaining structural elements. With thermite & rockets planted by rabbits, of course. Dropped in by airplanes that can suddenly vanish without a trace. No, no...that's where the unicorns come in - they bring in the rabbits and punch holes in the support beams with their horns. The rabbits pack them with the magical nano-thermite and attach the rockets. Then, GW Bush triggers the rockets, which ignite the magical nano-thermite to cut the support beams and accelerate the falling mass to freefall speeds. It's all true...just ask rhys.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #706 March 3, 2010 Quote> explain how you think it is possible for 'building 7' to collapse at free fall > speed through thepath of greatest resistance? Because the middle of the building had nothing in it (was a big atrium.) A big empty space is the path of least resistance - at least, once you remove the remaining structural elements. Along with a lot of damage: http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm#reporter"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #707 March 3, 2010 this was on tv the other night: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR30IhksVVk i guess National geographic are in on the conspiracy too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #708 March 3, 2010 Quote Quote Quote > explain how you think it is possible for 'building 7' to collapse at free fall > speed through thepath of greatest resistance? Because the middle of the building had nothing in it (was a big atrium.) A big empty space is the path of least resistance - at least, once you remove the remaining structural elements. With thermite & rockets planted by rabbits, of course. Dropped in by airplanes that can suddenly vanish without a trace. No, no...that's where the unicorns come in - they bring in the rabbits and punch holes in the support beams with their horns. The rabbits pack them with the magical nano-thermite and attach the rockets. Then, GW Bush triggers the rockets, which ignite the magical nano-thermite to cut the support beams and accelerate the falling mass to freefall speeds. It's all true...just ask rhys. Oh yeah? You got any evidence of that? Everybody knows unicorn horns can't pierce steel. I've seen 'em try. HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #709 March 4, 2010 QuoteAs Bill, myself, and other continually tell you: Your questions have been answered in depth many times over. Do not expect us to repeat because you fail to comprehend. You have not answered, You have told me you have, bill has told me he has, but neither of you can substanciate your claims with evidence or a link. you may be into creationism etc. and rely or accept faith as an answer, i am not, and need evidence in order to make decisions. hgow about you simply cut and paste your answer so we can discuss it rather than you simply telling me you have done something you havn't. By the way you may be interested to see that; The entire February 2010 Issue of the American Behavioral Scientist Devoted to State Crimes Against Democracy: The Case of September 11, 2001. You'd better start conjuring up some more excuses, or simply accept that you have no argument. "I'm better than you" and lying simply doesn't cut it!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #710 March 4, 2010 Try searching the threads you have started. The answers to your questions lie within. I never said I was better than you. Nobody here ever said they were better than you. We only said we have more education and experience in the subject than you. If you have an inferiority complex because of that then deal with it. But don't accuse people here of lying. We have only told you the truth.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #711 March 4, 2010 >but neither of you can substanciate your claims with evidence or a link. OK. To answer you again: Yes, buildings can fall at near-freefall speeds due to structural failure. A bridge in Minnesota did just that, despite the massive amounts of structure that had to fail all at the same time to make that happen. In 1981 a walkway at the Hyatt Regency collapsed at freefall speeds, despite having to plow through another walkway on its way down. So your claim that it is physically impossible is contradicted by real-world evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #712 March 4, 2010 QuoteTry searching the threads you have started. The answers to your questions lie within. I have tried and I have only found your inadequate analogy aboiut a lever and a weight, an analogy that goes into no further detail than that. A bit like NIST's 'imminent global collapse' description. somwhat vague! QuoteI never said I was better than you. Nobody here ever said they were better than you. We only said we have more education and experience in the subject than you. If you have an inferiority complex because of that then deal with it. But don't accuse people here of lying. We have only told you the truth. I do not have an inferiority complex at all, In fact I find it amusing that you suggest that."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #713 March 4, 2010 QuoteYes, buildings can fall at near-freefall speeds due to structural failure. A bridge in Minnesota did just that, despite the massive amounts of structure that had to fail all at the same time to make that happen. In 1981 a walkway at the Hyatt Regency collapsed at freefall speeds, despite having to plow through another walkway on its way down. So your claim that it is physically impossible is contradicted by real-world evidence. Quote Haha, a bridge and a walkway, I suppose they had a lattice of sructural steel below them also. try again Bill, I'm still waiting for your description you said you have posted before... I have seeked and i have not found..."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,259 #714 March 4, 2010 QuoteYou have not answered, How about you start giving some answers? Why was Building 7 demolished? Where did the Pentagon plane go if it didn't hit the Pentagon? Or, if it did hit the Pentagon, are you willing to accept that your sources on that one are just making stuff up? QuoteBy the way you may be interested to see that; The entire February 2010 Issue of the American Behavioral Scientist Devoted to State Crimes Against Democracy: The Case of September 11, 2001. Maybe we will. Why don't you tell us what's in it? Oh wait, you haven't read it, you just think the title (which you've copied and pasted from a headline on a truther site) is cool. Quote"I'm better than you" and lying simply doesn't cut it! But what else have you got?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #715 March 4, 2010 Quote How about you start giving some answers? Why was Building 7 demolished? you are asking me to speculate in order to mock my assertions, I am not willing to speculate anymore, I simply want you to face the facts. Quote Maybe we will. Why don't you tell us what's in it? Oh wait, you haven't read it, you just think the title (which you've copied and pasted from a headline on a truther site) is cool. Yes I did copy and paste it, and I do think it is cool. How about you copy and paste something to tell us how a building can gather freefall acceleration from and office fire? If you cannot read it or do your own research, I suggest you don't reply. It is going to be interesting to see how long you and your mates will continue to deny the inevitable! Far to many people have 'seen the light' so the speak. When 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by the perpertrators, 911blogger is now getting close to 20000 hits a day, sunder and gross will soon be going to trial for misconduct (drylabbing) and the exponential growth of the truth is begining to unfold in the mainstream media. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #716 March 4, 2010 Quote When 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by the perpertrators, 911blogger is now getting close to 20000 hits a day, sunder and gross will soon be going to trial for misconduct (drylabbing) and the exponential growth of the truth is begining to unfold in the mainstream media. So....next time they'll remember to crash a plane into Network Solutions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #717 March 4, 2010 Quote you may be into creationism etc. and rely or accept faith as an answer, i am not, and need evidence in order to make decisions. Oh that is a precious statement. The irony of you calling them creationists....totally priceless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,259 #718 March 4, 2010 Quoteyou are asking me to speculate You have been speculating from day one. You have been very clear in asserting your belief that a US gov't conspiracy was behind the events of 9/11. So why did that conspiracy decide to demolish Building 7? What possible benefit could there be? See if you can think of even one plausible reason why they would have rigged Building 7. Secondly, you always say that you evaluate the information that comes from both sides. Well, prove it. wice now you have posted a theory that would require a fully laden, low flying passenger jet to vanish from view over Washington DC, yet you have so far completely refused to look into any of the obvius probems with that theory. So, if you want to show us that you're serious, go and look into it! Either get an explanation as to how the aircraft managed to disappear in mid-air, or accept that the theory is false and start investigating how the so-called evidence of so many eye-witnesses was used to fool you. QuoteYes I did copy and paste it, and I do think it is cool. And you haven't read it. Any of it. You have no idea what any of the articles within actually say and yet you assume that you can use it as evidence that your onspiracy theory has academic backing. QuoteWhen 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by the perpertrators, 911blogger is now getting close to 20000 hits a day, sunder and gross will soon be going to trial for misconduct (drylabbing) and the exponential growth of the truth is begining to unfold in the mainstream media. Haha, see, I knew you weren't done speculating yet!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Draft 0 #719 March 4, 2010 If you can't understand a concept involving a simple lever, why should anyone go into more detail? Since you think you know what happened I would only be wasting my time. Falsely accusing people of claiming to be better than yourself is a classic symptom of an inferiority complex.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #720 March 4, 2010 QuoteIt is possible for something to have resistance for a period, none for another and then have resistance again. Therefore the debris that hit the ground before the sructure falling through the path of greatest resistance, did so because it had no (or little) reisitance (air). I'll bite. Let's say it did fall at freefall speed part of the time, then slowed down, then sped up again; or any other bizarre combinations of acceleration and decceleration you care to claim. How does that support a conspiracy versus the published report?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #721 March 4, 2010 QuoteForthe freefall of a steel framed building to occur, pre planted explosives would have to be used. So the use of explosives to weaken the structure somehow increases the force of gravity?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,434 #722 March 4, 2010 >Haha, a bridge and a walkway, I suppose they had a lattice of >sructural steel below them also. The walkway did indeed. It had an entire additional walkway under it, complete with structural steel, concrete etc. >try again Bill No need; the example above proves you wrong. Large structures CAN fall at near-freefall speeds even when there is structure under them. Next question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #723 March 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteForthe freefall of a steel framed building to occur, pre planted explosives would have to be used. So the use of explosives to weaken the structure somehow increases the force of gravity? That, or rockets.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pirana 0 #724 March 4, 2010 If someone is still on the "Where's the plane that hit the Pentagon" level; any credibility they had just hit zero. Many people actually watched as the plane come in low, clipped light poles, skipped on the ground just before impact, and hit the building. There is absolutely no mystery about it. Denial at that level reveals more about the person than the story." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,434 #725 March 4, 2010 >How about you copy and paste something to tell us how a building >can gather freefall acceleration from and office fire? Same way we do - from gravity. >When 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as >mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by >the perpertrators . . . So let's see. Mistiming the explosions by hours was just fine, accidentally not putting an Iraqi on the plane was perfectly understandable - but not taking out what you consider a future network was a "serious oversight?" And you honestly think that the net was not "mainstream" in 2001? Become a truther! Logic need not apply. 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jakee 1,259 #714 March 4, 2010 QuoteYou have not answered, How about you start giving some answers? Why was Building 7 demolished? Where did the Pentagon plane go if it didn't hit the Pentagon? Or, if it did hit the Pentagon, are you willing to accept that your sources on that one are just making stuff up? QuoteBy the way you may be interested to see that; The entire February 2010 Issue of the American Behavioral Scientist Devoted to State Crimes Against Democracy: The Case of September 11, 2001. Maybe we will. Why don't you tell us what's in it? Oh wait, you haven't read it, you just think the title (which you've copied and pasted from a headline on a truther site) is cool. Quote"I'm better than you" and lying simply doesn't cut it! But what else have you got?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #715 March 4, 2010 Quote How about you start giving some answers? Why was Building 7 demolished? you are asking me to speculate in order to mock my assertions, I am not willing to speculate anymore, I simply want you to face the facts. Quote Maybe we will. Why don't you tell us what's in it? Oh wait, you haven't read it, you just think the title (which you've copied and pasted from a headline on a truther site) is cool. Yes I did copy and paste it, and I do think it is cool. How about you copy and paste something to tell us how a building can gather freefall acceleration from and office fire? If you cannot read it or do your own research, I suggest you don't reply. It is going to be interesting to see how long you and your mates will continue to deny the inevitable! Far to many people have 'seen the light' so the speak. When 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by the perpertrators, 911blogger is now getting close to 20000 hits a day, sunder and gross will soon be going to trial for misconduct (drylabbing) and the exponential growth of the truth is begining to unfold in the mainstream media. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #716 March 4, 2010 Quote When 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by the perpertrators, 911blogger is now getting close to 20000 hits a day, sunder and gross will soon be going to trial for misconduct (drylabbing) and the exponential growth of the truth is begining to unfold in the mainstream media. So....next time they'll remember to crash a plane into Network Solutions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #717 March 4, 2010 Quote you may be into creationism etc. and rely or accept faith as an answer, i am not, and need evidence in order to make decisions. Oh that is a precious statement. The irony of you calling them creationists....totally priceless. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,259 #718 March 4, 2010 Quoteyou are asking me to speculate You have been speculating from day one. You have been very clear in asserting your belief that a US gov't conspiracy was behind the events of 9/11. So why did that conspiracy decide to demolish Building 7? What possible benefit could there be? See if you can think of even one plausible reason why they would have rigged Building 7. Secondly, you always say that you evaluate the information that comes from both sides. Well, prove it. wice now you have posted a theory that would require a fully laden, low flying passenger jet to vanish from view over Washington DC, yet you have so far completely refused to look into any of the obvius probems with that theory. So, if you want to show us that you're serious, go and look into it! Either get an explanation as to how the aircraft managed to disappear in mid-air, or accept that the theory is false and start investigating how the so-called evidence of so many eye-witnesses was used to fool you. QuoteYes I did copy and paste it, and I do think it is cool. And you haven't read it. Any of it. You have no idea what any of the articles within actually say and yet you assume that you can use it as evidence that your onspiracy theory has academic backing. QuoteWhen 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by the perpertrators, 911blogger is now getting close to 20000 hits a day, sunder and gross will soon be going to trial for misconduct (drylabbing) and the exponential growth of the truth is begining to unfold in the mainstream media. Haha, see, I knew you weren't done speculating yet!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Draft 0 #719 March 4, 2010 If you can't understand a concept involving a simple lever, why should anyone go into more detail? Since you think you know what happened I would only be wasting my time. Falsely accusing people of claiming to be better than yourself is a classic symptom of an inferiority complex.HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the object we are trying to hit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #720 March 4, 2010 QuoteIt is possible for something to have resistance for a period, none for another and then have resistance again. Therefore the debris that hit the ground before the sructure falling through the path of greatest resistance, did so because it had no (or little) reisitance (air). I'll bite. Let's say it did fall at freefall speed part of the time, then slowed down, then sped up again; or any other bizarre combinations of acceleration and decceleration you care to claim. How does that support a conspiracy versus the published report?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #721 March 4, 2010 QuoteForthe freefall of a steel framed building to occur, pre planted explosives would have to be used. So the use of explosives to weaken the structure somehow increases the force of gravity?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #722 March 4, 2010 >Haha, a bridge and a walkway, I suppose they had a lattice of >sructural steel below them also. The walkway did indeed. It had an entire additional walkway under it, complete with structural steel, concrete etc. >try again Bill No need; the example above proves you wrong. Large structures CAN fall at near-freefall speeds even when there is structure under them. Next question? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #723 March 4, 2010 QuoteQuoteForthe freefall of a steel framed building to occur, pre planted explosives would have to be used. So the use of explosives to weaken the structure somehow increases the force of gravity? That, or rockets.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #724 March 4, 2010 If someone is still on the "Where's the plane that hit the Pentagon" level; any credibility they had just hit zero. Many people actually watched as the plane come in low, clipped light poles, skipped on the ground just before impact, and hit the building. There is absolutely no mystery about it. Denial at that level reveals more about the person than the story." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #725 March 4, 2010 >How about you copy and paste something to tell us how a building >can gather freefall acceleration from and office fire? Same way we do - from gravity. >When 9/11 was planned, the internet was nowhere near as >mainstream and utilised as it is now, this was a 'serious oversight by >the perpertrators . . . So let's see. Mistiming the explosions by hours was just fine, accidentally not putting an Iraqi on the plane was perfectly understandable - but not taking out what you consider a future network was a "serious oversight?" And you honestly think that the net was not "mainstream" in 2001? Become a truther! Logic need not apply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
