jclalor 12 #1 November 17, 2008 With the 30 year anniversary of Jonestown approaching I wonder if Jim Jones was born evil, or a man who started out doing good works and went bad. Jones did a lot of good works in the beginning (integrated churches in the fifties, free medical, housing and food for the poor and elderly and adopted a lot of foster children) I was friends with Steve Jones for a while, who was Jone's only biological child. Talking with him gave me a kind of different perspective, he spent almost a year in prison in Guyanna when the murders take place. While he would never defend his father he would violently defend the members of the church. On the day of the murders he was playing basketball with the church team ( He was 17 at the time) in the capital about 200 miles away. There was also a group of church members relatives waiting at the airport who were not allowed to travel to Jonestown with Rep Leo Ryan and other family members due to lack of seats on the planes. Steve was very fearful of what could happen with his father and was very anxious for Ryan to return. When it got late in the afternoon, Steve went to a house owned by the temple in George town that had a radio so he could call his dad to see what was happening. Ten minutes before he got there the temple member that lived there was told over the radio to commence the suicides, she slit her 2 young children's throats and then her own. Steve saw this and then also had to go back and identify the bodies of his family. An excellent book to read if interested is the Raven. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 200 #2 November 17, 2008 I don't know if Jones was born evil...don't care. Was Dahmer born evil? What about Gasey? Bottom line is he used his charisma to take control of a bunch of poor idiots. In actuality it probably wasn't that difficult. Hitler did it. Take people who have nothing and promise them everything and they'll follow you.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laszloimage 0 #3 November 17, 2008 QuoteTake people who have nothing and promise them everything and they'll follow you. Well said! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #4 November 17, 2008 Quote Bottom line is he used his charisma to take control of a bunch of poor idiots. So did Obama! Quote Take people who have nothing and promise them everything and they'll follow you. That about sums up Obamas plan for getting in the White House!Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #5 November 17, 2008 Interesting, I worked for Steve about 11 years ago. He had a bit of an odd sense of humor. If there were any recent hires, he would offer kool-ade to drink during the weekly team meeting. Once we explained who Steve was, we waited to see how long it took for the new guy to realize what he was drinking.50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #6 November 17, 2008 Seemingly lost to most is "What was the religion of Rev. Jim Jones?" The answer is communism. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #7 November 17, 2008 I've been watching a few of the documentaries they've aired lately on the History Channel - mostly with the two survivors who were out in the jungle while the group killed themselves. Listening to the narratives of how it all went down just made me sick to my stomach. The dialog of Jim Jones pleading with his followers "Just take the medicine, I beg you. It won't hurt, you won't go into convulsions, just please...." From the few that survived, it was apparent that those who took their lives often forced those who were reluctant at gunpoint. The children dies first, often at the hands of their mothers. I had to turn the documentary off. And it takes a lot for me to do that.=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #8 November 17, 2008 Yep it happened in 1978, 30 years ago. MSNBC just ran a documentary about it, including interviews with defectors & Stephen, the son of Jim Jones. I would hope everyone would have seen it. Very disturbing, though. The Massacre included the killing of a US Congressman & journalists who accompanied him. So it wasn't just people in the cult itself. And even of the 900+ cult members who died, it is clear that many of them in the end did not want to go along with it, but were forced to at gunpoint. It was a very weird & complicated & scary & disturbing situation all around. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #9 November 17, 2008 Quote Quote Bottom line is he used his charisma to take control of a bunch of poor idiots. So did Obama! Quote Take people who have nothing and promise them everything and they'll follow you. That about sums up Obamas plan for getting in the White House! Give me a fucking break. The Jonestown massacre happened 30 years ago, almost to the day. Have some grace at this point. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #10 November 17, 2008 you give inner contentment to somebody, you can do whatever you want with them. Very powerful. I've seen it a couple of times with some very religious born-again groups I was invited into. Nothing like Jonesborough. . . they were safe; almost cultish. They had that look in their eyes and they had that warm Physio-psychological feeling of bliss that they claim as "jesus in your heart". Wouldn't do any good to tell them that you don't have to believe in anything to be able achieve this high. It usually boils down to becoming dependent, and needing to feel that feeling all the time, like a drug. "jesus, Morbo, David coresh" becomes a drug for a lot of them and you can do anything you want with them._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #11 November 17, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Bottom line is he used his charisma to take control of a bunch of poor idiots. So did Obama! Quote Take people who have nothing and promise them everything and they'll follow you. That about sums up Obamas plan for getting in the White House! Give me a fucking break. The Jonestown massacre happened 30 years ago, almost to the day. Have some grace at this point. If you were to read that post in a different thread not related to Jonestown you wouldn't know what he was talking about.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TFFTM 1 #12 November 17, 2008 Found this recording taken at Jonestown prior and during the orders for "Revolutionary suicide"". Included our Christines pleas for them to contact the Russians for an airlift. Sad....http://www.archive.org/details/ptc1978-11-18.flac16 BSBD Home of the Alabama Gang Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #13 November 18, 2008 QuoteSeemingly lost to most is "What was the religion of Rev. Jim Jones?" The answer is communism. Somewhat true, but greatly oversimplified. Early Christianity was very communistic, the Book of Acts speaks of Christian communities living together and sharing what they owned in common. But that's not to be confused with 19th century Marxism either, or especially with 20th century Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, or any of the other "wonderful" variations of Marx's theories. I suppose Jones was communistic. Also ran a very strong cult of personality, maybe like the North Koreans and their reverance for the bad haircut dude and his late father. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AirWhore 0 #14 November 18, 2008 Quote Quote Seemingly lost to most is "What was the religion of Rev. Jim Jones?" The answer is communism. Early Christianity was very communistic, the Book of Acts speaks of Christian communities living together and sharing what they owned in common. But that's not to be confused with 19th century Marxism either, or especially with 20th century Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, or any of the other "wonderful" variations of Marx's theories. I suppose Jones was communistic. Also ran a very strong cult of personality, maybe like the North Koreans and their reverence for the bad haircut dude and his late father. You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship, A self-perpetuating autocracy. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune, we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer must be approved at a bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs. but a two-thirds majority for all other affairs. I just couldn't help myself!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertime24 8 #15 November 18, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Seemingly lost to most is "What was the religion of Rev. Jim Jones?" The answer is communism. Early Christianity was very communistic, the Book of Acts speaks of Christian communities living together and sharing what they owned in common. But that's not to be confused with 19th century Marxism either, or especially with 20th century Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, or any of the other "wonderful" variations of Marx's theories. I suppose Jones was communistic. Also ran a very strong cult of personality, maybe like the North Koreans and their reverence for the bad haircut dude and his late father. You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship, A self-perpetuating autocracy. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune, we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer must be approved at a bi-weekly meeting by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs. but a two-thirds majority for all other affairs. I just couldn't help myself!!! “Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!” Muff #5048 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chadkal 0 #16 November 19, 2008 You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you. -------------------------------------------------- I am a greek midget Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #17 November 19, 2008 This thread inspired me to watch PBS's Jonestown: Life and Death of People's Temple. It's a great documentary, though I don't think it's something I'd want to see again in light of the subject matter... Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chadkal 0 #18 November 19, 2008 there you go ruin a good monty python thread by getting back on topic -------------------------------------------------- I am a greek midget Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #19 November 19, 2008 Quote Quote Bottom line is he used his charisma to take control of a bunch of poor idiots. So did Obama! Quote Take people who have nothing and promise them everything and they'll follow you. That about sums up Obamas plan for getting in the White House! I was thinking the same thingPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
