kallend 1,661 #276 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote HOW. Stop evading the question. HOW will you identify the mentally disturbed potential purchaser? Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? kallned!!!!! that has been the question I and many others have asked you! How do you square advocating this when you blast other (what you think) are gross invasions of privacy? Please, YOU answer the question Is it a gross invasion of privacy to have to have a medical exam to be a pilot? To have an eye test to get a drivers license? A gross invasion of privacy is potentially having your every phone conversation listened to by the government without a warrant, when a simple mechanism for getting a warrant already exists. So, answer the question. Even though you mis-characterize the phone conversation part, you still avoid the question. How do you square the gov having acess to YOUR mental medical records should YOU choose to purchase a firearm? What you post as a pilot exam is not the same. I think you know that. If you bothered to read billvon's post in another thread, you will see that no-one suggested letting the govt. have anyone's medical records, so we have YET ANOTHER STRAWMAN. BTW, since I am an active pilot the govt CAN access my medical records.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #277 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote HOW. Stop evading the question. HOW will you identify the mentally disturbed potential purchaser? Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? kallned!!!!! that has been the question I and many others have asked you! How do you square advocating this when you blast other (what you think) are gross invasions of privacy? Please, YOU answer the question Is it a gross invasion of privacy to have to have a medical exam to be a pilot? To have an eye test to get a drivers license? A gross invasion of privacy is potentially having your every phone conversation listened to by the government without a warrant, when a simple mechanism for getting a warrant already exists. So, answer the question. Even though you mis-characterize the phone conversation part, you still avoid the question. How do you square the gov having acess to YOUR mental medical records should YOU choose to purchase a firearm? What you post as a pilot exam is not the same. I think you know that. If you bothered to read billvon's post in another thread, you will see that no-one suggested letting the govt. have anyone's medical records, so we have YET ANOTHER STRAWMAN. BTW, since I am an active pilot the govt CAN access my medical records. Which ones? All of them? And if your point is true, then how do the feds get a mental (before purchase) screening?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #278 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote HOW. Stop evading the question. HOW will you identify the mentally disturbed potential purchaser? Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? kallned!!!!! that has been the question I and many others have asked you! How do you square advocating this when you blast other (what you think) are gross invasions of privacy? Please, YOU answer the question Is it a gross invasion of privacy to have to have a medical exam to be a pilot? To have an eye test to get a drivers license? A gross invasion of privacy is potentially having your every phone conversation listened to by the government without a warrant, when a simple mechanism for getting a warrant already exists. So, answer the question. Even though you mis-characterize the phone conversation part, you still avoid the question. How do you square the gov having acess to YOUR mental medical records should YOU choose to purchase a firearm? What you post as a pilot exam is not the same. I think you know that. If you bothered to read billvon's post in another thread, you will see that no-one suggested letting the govt. have anyone's medical records, so we have YET ANOTHER STRAWMAN. BTW, since I am an active pilot the govt CAN access my medical records. Which ones? All of them? And if your point is true, then how do the feds get a mental (before purchase) screening? You participated in the thread where billvon suggested a simple way. If you paid attention you would know. It gets really irritating having you guys ask the same questions over and over because you don't pay attention.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #279 September 12, 2008 I think you evaded giving an answer to this, so I'll try again: Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #280 September 12, 2008 Network of International Christian Schools??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #281 September 12, 2008 Quote Network of International Christian Schools??? Naturally Ignorant Conservatives Society But I WAS referring to National Instant Criminal Background Check System... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #282 September 12, 2008 QuoteLame, false and hypocritical You can say that all you want....That does not make it true. We have answered your questions...You have avoided answering any with anything more then cryptic responses. We have given you details FOLLOW THE CURRENT LAWS. I don't know how else to explain that to you...And that is DETAILED. FOLLOW THE CURRENT LAWS. And as for Kelp...He asked you a question you REFUSED to answer. I don't see why you should be able to demand an answer from someone when you are unwilling to answer any questions yourself. Here is one of those questions so you can avoid answering it again...I have asked the SAME type of question and you have refused to answer it from me as well..... "Until you can explain why Bush's moves to infringe on our rights to fight terrorism is bad, but sacrificing medical privacy rights in gun control is good, good evening to you." You have avoided answering that time after time. Get off your high horse and either answer that question, or quit bitching that others don't answer yours. QuoteSTRAWMAN - no one suggested putting peoples private lives on display. You have proposed that a gun owners medical records be open to background checks....You must have forgotten that little bit. Quote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Really? Do you even know the process to own a MG? Are model rockets protected in the BoR's? How many people have been killed by a legal MG since 1934? You once again show you have no clue about the process or the rules....Yet you continue to claim they fall short. Really....You need to do better than this to be taken seriously...And I personally like you. I just think your arguments are weak and based on pure emotion."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #283 September 12, 2008 Quote Hello, Pot. I thought you'd gone on vacation. I'm sorry for your misunderstanding. Not to mention the McCain you seem to be pulling tonight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #284 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote HOW. Stop evading the question. HOW will you identify the mentally disturbed potential purchaser? Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? kallned!!!!! that has been the question I and many others have asked you! How do you square advocating this when you blast other (what you think) are gross invasions of privacy? Please, YOU answer the question Is it a gross invasion of privacy to have to have a medical exam to be a pilot? To have an eye test to get a drivers license? A gross invasion of privacy is potentially having your every phone conversation listened to by the government without a warrant, when a simple mechanism for getting a warrant already exists. Flying a plane and driving a car are not rights that are SPECIFICALLY mentioned in the BOR as NOT being infringed. Seeing as how you have NO qualms about invasion of privacy in regards to the exercise of 2nd amendment rights, you have NO leg to stand on in regards to complaining about invasion of privacy in regards to 1st amendment rights. But, since we are on the subject - did you make the same bitter complaints about Echelon, Carnivore and Omnivore? Or is it the simple fact that it's now a Republican administration spying on it's people that has you so incensed?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #285 September 12, 2008 Quote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #286 September 12, 2008 QuoteI think you evaded giving an answer to this, so I'll try again: Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? Prior to GCA 68, school kids could MAIL-ORDER machine guns - where were all the school massacres back then?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #287 September 12, 2008 QuoteIt's OK, we can accept his opinion that his right to convenience in buying guns is more important than massacre victims' rights not to be shot dead. When you can demonstrate that giving away our rights--whether it be right to guns or right to convenience in getting them--stops people getting shot to death, maybe we can parley. Quote(I think I remember some old saying about "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" - Oliver Wendell Holmes.) My buying a gun, owning a gun, even walking around with that gun in my hand, doesn't come anywhere near your nose. Or are you going to claim that JohnRich or I have tried to claim a right to go around shooting people unprovoked?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #288 September 12, 2008 QuoteI think you evaded giving an answer to this, so I'll try again: Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? Yes"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 635 #289 September 12, 2008 Lighten up Francis. We're not all conservatives. Having purchased a large number of weapons in my life, I knew exactly what you were referring to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #290 September 12, 2008 You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for example. Then submit the form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and wait for BATF to do its checking. Quote You really seem to miss the point, the CLEO is not required, there is a provision in case someone does not want to go this route, or has a CLEO that will not sign under any circumstances. As for fingerprints, sure why not? The government has had my prints since 1979. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,661 #291 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote I think you evaded giving an answer to this, so I'll try again: Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? Yes Thanks for the honest answer.I'm glad the feds don't agree with you. Even warped has no objection to the fingerprinting requirement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,661 #292 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote HOW. Stop evading the question. HOW will you identify the mentally disturbed potential purchaser? Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? kallned!!!!! that has been the question I and many others have asked you! How do you square advocating this when you blast other (what you think) are gross invasions of privacy? Please, YOU answer the question Is it a gross invasion of privacy to have to have a medical exam to be a pilot? To have an eye test to get a drivers license? A gross invasion of privacy is potentially having your every phone conversation listened to by the government without a warrant, when a simple mechanism for getting a warrant already exists. Flying a plane and driving a car are not rights that are SPECIFICALLY mentioned in the BOR as NOT being infringed. Depends on the limits of those "not unlimited" rights (Scalia). THAT argument went down the tubes with the Heller decision. Quote Seeing as how you have NO qualms about invasion of privacy in regards to the exercise of 2nd amendment not unlimited rights, you have NO leg to stand on in regards to complaining about invasion of privacy in regards to 1st amendment rights. Privacy? Maybe you should read the latest edition of Scientific American to see just how much of that we have left. Quote But, since we are on the subject - did you make the same bitter complaints about Echelon, Carnivore and Omnivore? Or is it the simple fact that it's now a Republican administration spying on it's people that has you so incensed? They are ALL objectionable, IMO. BTW, what do you think about the current requirements to buy a machine gun?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,661 #293 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #294 September 12, 2008 QuoteBTW, what do you think about the current requirements to buy a machine gun? I think it's bullshit.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #295 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Color me unimpressed, in comparison to the hoops that a FFL license holder has to go through. Looks much like the registration and safe storage that you so advocate for gun owners, however - what's your gripe?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #296 September 12, 2008 Quotethe new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun... A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Okay, I did. Background for other readers: http://www.jefallbright.net/node/2615 The qualification questions for a LEUP (low explosives user permit) look pretty much identical to the requirements for buying a gun: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf So, it's ironic once again that you cry "foul" when your own personal model rocket hobby is regulated, yet at the same time there is no regulation too great which you wouldn't impose upon gun owners. You want no regulations to purchase model rocket explosives, and want no regulations concerning home storage of these dangerous explosives. Don't look now: your double standard is showing again, Emperor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites birdlike 0 #297 September 12, 2008 QuotePrivacy? Maybe you should read the latest edition of Scientific American to see just how much of that we have left. QuoteBut, since we are on the subject - did you make the same bitter complaints about Echelon, Carnivore and Omnivore? Or is it the simple fact that it's now a Republican administration spying on it's people that has you so incensed? They are ALL objectionable, IMO. Then why is it that you clearly object to privacy infringements as you advocate for yet another one, WRT gun purchases?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,661 #298 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote STRAWMAN - no one suggested putting peoples private lives on display. You have proposed that a gun owners medical records be open to background checks....You must have forgotten that little bit. Wrong again - I endorsed billvon's suggestion which does NOT involve that AT ALL. Quote Quote 8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Really? Do you even know the process to own a MG? Yes. Rest of your emotional ranting snipped.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,661 #299 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Color me unimpressed, in comparison to the hoops that a FFL license holder has to go through. Red herring alert, we're not discussing becoming a DEALER here. Try to stay on track. Quote Looks much like the registration and safe storage that you so advocate for gun owners, however - what's your gripe? Guess you just skipped the part about fingerprinting, mug shots, REAL background check for all the same things as a MG permit, requiring an approved magazine with an approved lock (and inspection of same on demand by an ATF agent). Everyone I know who got a LEUP was interviewed, and some had their neighbors interviewed too. All for a 2 ounce hobby motor. And recall, there is no instance of any crime ever being committed with a hobby rocket. Gun users, however, commit over ten thousand homicides a year and hundreds of thousands of other crimes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 18 #300 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote 8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Color me unimpressed, in comparison to the hoops that a FFL license holder has to go through. Red herring alert, we're not discussing becoming a DEALER here. Try to stay on track. Quote Looks much like the registration and safe storage that you so advocate for gun owners, however - what's your gripe? Guess you just skipped the part about fingerprinting, mug shots, REAL background check for all the same things as a MG permit, requiring an approved magazine with an approved lock (and inspection of same on demand by an ATF agent). Everyone I know who got a LEUP was interviewed, and some had their neighbors interviewed too. All for a 2 ounce hobby motor. And recall, there is no instance of any crime ever being committed with a hobby rocket. Gun users, however, commit over ten thousand homicides a year and hundreds of thousands of other crimes. No sir, it is criminal who use guns. Fixed it for you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." 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kallend 1,661 #291 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote I think you evaded giving an answer to this, so I'll try again: Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? Yes Thanks for the honest answer.I'm glad the feds don't agree with you. Even warped has no objection to the fingerprinting requirement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #292 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote HOW. Stop evading the question. HOW will you identify the mentally disturbed potential purchaser? Do you think a NICS check would be adequate for someone wanting to purchase a machine gun? kallned!!!!! that has been the question I and many others have asked you! How do you square advocating this when you blast other (what you think) are gross invasions of privacy? Please, YOU answer the question Is it a gross invasion of privacy to have to have a medical exam to be a pilot? To have an eye test to get a drivers license? A gross invasion of privacy is potentially having your every phone conversation listened to by the government without a warrant, when a simple mechanism for getting a warrant already exists. Flying a plane and driving a car are not rights that are SPECIFICALLY mentioned in the BOR as NOT being infringed. Depends on the limits of those "not unlimited" rights (Scalia). THAT argument went down the tubes with the Heller decision. Quote Seeing as how you have NO qualms about invasion of privacy in regards to the exercise of 2nd amendment not unlimited rights, you have NO leg to stand on in regards to complaining about invasion of privacy in regards to 1st amendment rights. Privacy? Maybe you should read the latest edition of Scientific American to see just how much of that we have left. Quote But, since we are on the subject - did you make the same bitter complaints about Echelon, Carnivore and Omnivore? Or is it the simple fact that it's now a Republican administration spying on it's people that has you so incensed? They are ALL objectionable, IMO. BTW, what do you think about the current requirements to buy a machine gun?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #293 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #294 September 12, 2008 QuoteBTW, what do you think about the current requirements to buy a machine gun? I think it's bullshit.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #295 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Color me unimpressed, in comparison to the hoops that a FFL license holder has to go through. Looks much like the registration and safe storage that you so advocate for gun owners, however - what's your gripe?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #296 September 12, 2008 Quotethe new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun... A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Okay, I did. Background for other readers: http://www.jefallbright.net/node/2615 The qualification questions for a LEUP (low explosives user permit) look pretty much identical to the requirements for buying a gun: http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f540013.pdf So, it's ironic once again that you cry "foul" when your own personal model rocket hobby is regulated, yet at the same time there is no regulation too great which you wouldn't impose upon gun owners. You want no regulations to purchase model rocket explosives, and want no regulations concerning home storage of these dangerous explosives. Don't look now: your double standard is showing again, Emperor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #297 September 12, 2008 QuotePrivacy? Maybe you should read the latest edition of Scientific American to see just how much of that we have left. QuoteBut, since we are on the subject - did you make the same bitter complaints about Echelon, Carnivore and Omnivore? Or is it the simple fact that it's now a Republican administration spying on it's people that has you so incensed? They are ALL objectionable, IMO. Then why is it that you clearly object to privacy infringements as you advocate for yet another one, WRT gun purchases?Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #298 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote STRAWMAN - no one suggested putting peoples private lives on display. You have proposed that a gun owners medical records be open to background checks....You must have forgotten that little bit. Wrong again - I endorsed billvon's suggestion which does NOT involve that AT ALL. Quote Quote 8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Really? Do you even know the process to own a MG? Yes. Rest of your emotional ranting snipped.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,661 #299 September 12, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Color me unimpressed, in comparison to the hoops that a FFL license holder has to go through. Red herring alert, we're not discussing becoming a DEALER here. Try to stay on track. Quote Looks much like the registration and safe storage that you so advocate for gun owners, however - what's your gripe? Guess you just skipped the part about fingerprinting, mug shots, REAL background check for all the same things as a MG permit, requiring an approved magazine with an approved lock (and inspection of same on demand by an ATF agent). Everyone I know who got a LEUP was interviewed, and some had their neighbors interviewed too. All for a 2 ounce hobby motor. And recall, there is no instance of any crime ever being committed with a hobby rocket. Gun users, however, commit over ten thousand homicides a year and hundreds of thousands of other crimes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #300 September 12, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote 8. Despite the above, the new rules for owning even one 2 ounce hobby rocket motor are more stringent than the rules for owning a machine gun. Do you HONESTLY think that makes sense? Cite. A BATF LEUP license is needed. Check the requirements for THAT! Color me unimpressed, in comparison to the hoops that a FFL license holder has to go through. Red herring alert, we're not discussing becoming a DEALER here. Try to stay on track. Quote Looks much like the registration and safe storage that you so advocate for gun owners, however - what's your gripe? Guess you just skipped the part about fingerprinting, mug shots, REAL background check for all the same things as a MG permit, requiring an approved magazine with an approved lock (and inspection of same on demand by an ATF agent). Everyone I know who got a LEUP was interviewed, and some had their neighbors interviewed too. All for a 2 ounce hobby motor. And recall, there is no instance of any crime ever being committed with a hobby rocket. Gun users, however, commit over ten thousand homicides a year and hundreds of thousands of other crimes. No sir, it is criminal who use guns. Fixed it for you"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
