I'm thinking of packing a piece.

[west33freefall 0]

I would say go shooting sometime at a local gun shop/range. Take some classes, like CCW, basic pistol, and self-defense pistol classes. Carring a gun is like skydiving. It looks simple from the outside. Get in a plane, jump, and pull a chute when in actuallity it is very technical. Learn how to shoot, how to use, how to warn off attackers and how to stop them. But I would recommend many people to get a gun and be smart with it.

Recommendations. would def. be a sub-compact .40 smith and wesson of any gun type. But definitly shoot them before you by one. Sometimes the recoil can be too much for first time shooters. If so a decent 9mm like a H/K USP or 2000, or a cheaper Smith and Wesson/ M & P both are very good and reliable. Just make sure you pack hollow points if you intend to use it for protection!

[west33freefall 0]

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Recommendations. would def. be a sub-compact .40 smith and wesson of any gun type.

ok so don't get a Hi-point or a Kahr they are crap! Get like a FN, Ruger, S & W, or a H/k.

[nerdgirl 0]

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While I agree, I have always been completely baffled by those who say they could not.

I mean, isn't it clear that it comes down to, "If you can't/won't kill, you die?!" And what does that say about how much someone values her life?

If she won't kill the man trying to kill her, isn't a woman saying that despite what he is doing, his life is of equal value and sacredness to hers? Otherwise, why act as though it should be protected?

"I can't bring myself to kill the person who is viciously trying to kill me; trying to take me away from my kids/husband/parents/brothers/sisters/friends. I just so abhorr the taking of life that I will defer and allow mine to be taken because I won't take my attacker's."

I just don't get it. I really do believe it boils down that way. If you think your attacker does not forfeit his right to safely keep his life even though he is trying to take yours, then yes, you will die without fighting. But if you value your life over that of your attacker, as I (personally) feel a normal person should, why would you have any qualms about killing him (so long as you recognize that your life is in actual danger)?

You bring up a lot of really good points and there’s a lot of value in what you write … there’s a whole lot underlying, what some might call “truth.”

W/r/t the "bafflement" you cite: while my impression is that the original poster is strong, confident, and resolved, one reason why some women (& some men in stalking or abusive situations as well) hesitate and doubt (& there are lots of reasons) is that way too often explicit and implicit messages tell them that the stalking (or by extension, abuse) is *their* fault … rather then the stalker’s fault. It can be insidious.

I've had one real-world stalker while in college (who I ended up having to go to court to obtain a restraining order against and again to have it extended) and one on-line stalker. (I'm a self-professed 'nerd', who the hell's going to stalk me?) Been there, done that, got the 't-shirt' ... that I didn't ever want.

The response here, while not in consensus on tactics, has been very good. It's a commendable trait of the SC community.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[birdlike 0]

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Recommendations. would def. be a sub-compact .40 smith and wesson of any gun type.

ok so don't get a Hi-point or a Kahr they are crap! Get like a FN, Ruger, S & W, or a H/k.

My recommendation is GLOCK all the way. I'm a firm believer.

But whatever you do, don't get suckered into buying a Kel-Tec. OMG they are such JUNK!!

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[west33freefall 0]

GLOCKs are very nice just not a fan of the design. They make very nice and reliable firearms just not the best looking thing on the market.

[birdlike 0]

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GLOCKs are very nice just not a fan of the design. They make very nice and reliable firearms just not the best looking thing on the market.

Hmm, I'm well familiar with the (very common) feeling that Glocks are "ugly, but do the job well."

I have never found them to be ugly, though!
I've always admired the elegance of their simplicity. I have seen lots of supposedly "handsome" guns that I thought were dolled-up and horrendously ugly.

Why, for example, aren't people bashing the Walther P99 for being ugly? God, that thing looks like poop from a leper warthog! And even the S&W M&P looks, to me, far too much like the old (deservedly maligned) Colt 2000. Hideous.

I respect your personal opinion about the Glock -- hey, if you don't like it, you don't like it. I'm glad you recognized that it's up to the job; but I still can't fathom people's feelings that it's an ugly gun. I guess it's a lot like taste in cars.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Botellines 0]

The thing is that wether your life is at risk or not is based on perceptions, not facts. You don´t have the facts, your attacker does.
If someone points a gun at you and demands all your money, the only thing you can be sure is that you are about to loose your money. As a matter of fact, if you just handle your money you will probably be safer than if you attack the attacker.

Unless you are a gang member or something like that it is very unlikely that anyone will want to kill you just because. So almsot always it will not be your life what is at risk, but your money.

I doubt anyone wouldn´t kill if they are really fearing for their lifes. There is not that many sheeps out there. Many though will prefer to hand out their money and their ego than further risking their lives with a confrotation with someone armed. And i agree, life weights more than ego and the money will be handed back by the insurance.

There is some exceptions. Being a guy my chances of being raped are slim, but i fully support the use of lethal force against a rapist, and if i was a woman, i would surely use it although maybe not centermass.

Just my 0,2 €

[birdlike 0]

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The thing is that wether your life is at risk or not is based on perceptions, not facts. You don´t have the facts, your attacker does.
If someone points a gun at you and demands all your money, the only thing you can be sure is that you are about to loose your money.

In such a case, what I'd be sure of is that I'm about to shoot a criminal.

I disagree on a different basis. This isn't about whether you can be prescient or not. This is about what you have a right to believe the criminal is willing to do to you. A weapon brought to bear on you is clear, unambiguous license to use your own weapon to end your assailant's life.

It is impossible for me to fathom any person's opposition to that principle. To tell me I cannot act decisively and lethally when someone expresses an overt threat to my life--whether or not, unbeknownst to me, deep in his heart, my assailant knows he'd never shoot me--is to tell me that I do not have more of a moral right to emerge the victor in a robbery/murder situation than he who attacks me does. And that's nonsense.

I do not have to be able to get inside his mind; I just have to reasonably fear that he intends to cause me grievous injury or death if I do not defend myself. It doesn't matter whether he "means it"; it just matters that the threat is presented and is credible.

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As a matter of fact, if you just handle your money you will probably be safer than if you attack the attacker.

First of all, I keep reading news story after news story lately of people shot to death after complying with robbers' demands. So much for "give them what they want and they won't hurt you." How would you like to lie on the ground, dying, wondering why the fuck this shitpile shot you after you gave him everything you had. I'd rather die after failing to beat him to the trigger pull.

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Unless you are a gang member or something like that it is very unlikely that anyone will want to kill you just because. So almsot always it will not be your life what is at risk, but your money.

Is there a gun or weapon being used to threaten you? Then your life is at risk. I don't think you ought to parse words here. How can you possibly know, at the moment of the robbery, whether this is "good" robber or a "bad" robber? (That's a sick joke I'm making there, as though a guy could be robbing you but still be "good.") Just as you say that you can't know that he's going to kill you, I say that you can't know that he won't kill you. And if you make the latter assumption, there's a hell of a price to pay if you were wrong to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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I doubt anyone wouldn´t kill if they are really fearing for their lifes. There is not that many sheeps out there. Many though will prefer to hand out their money and their ego than further risking their lives with a confrotation with someone armed. And i agree, life weights more than ego and the money will be handed back by the insurance.

What insurance will pay me for money that is taken from me in a robbery? None that I know of.
You might be right about the idea that few people who really believe they're about to be murdered would not fight back. The trick is, many people come to find out that someone really does mean to kill them, and all they have is a cellular phone with a 911 operator asking them what the emergency is.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[west33freefall 0]

They are very simple and have a type of elegance. My first gun ever was a Glock 9mm. I like guns for different reasons as most have all their little pros/cons. Rugers are freakin ugly as well and designed (functionality wise) very simply. But they feel nice in the hand and are accurate for me. The P99 in my opinion is a great looking gun. Very tactical in style. How ever if you like the simple, smooth, sleek style of the classic auto's or revolvers you probably won't like it. Its nice to here there are so many more people out there who use their second amendment rights. Anyone against the use of the second amendment check out how many vehicular manslaughter cases there are a year and how many shooting victims. You might be surprised.

[Darius11 12]

There is a lot of good advice on here. I will only add that once you’re at the range and practicing you will most likely (if you like your hearing) be using some sort of ear plugs. I practice with no earplugs as well just for a bit. I think being used to the noise makes you a more accurate shooter. Just a suggestion.

Practice, practice, practice this is not much different then practicing your EPs before every jump. You hope and pray you never have to use it but if you do you want to do it right and quick.

My personal defense weapon is a Glock. Love it.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Skyrad 0]

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Pack a piece of what?

Dog doo.

If a rapist comes to rape you, smear it all over your face and genitals, and he won't want to bother*.



* Unless he's the really sick kind, who likes that, and then you're really in trouble, I guess.

Why? Thats just weird. Carrying doggy doo! Why not just pack your pants yourself?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[downwardspiral 0]

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There is a lot of good advice on here. I will only add that once you’re at the range and practicing you will most likely (if you like your hearing) be using some sort of ear plugs. I practice with no earplugs as well just for a bit. I think being used to the noise makes you a more accurate shooter. Just a suggestion.

Practice, practice, practice this is not much different then practicing your EPs before every jump. You hope and pray you never have to use it but if you do you want to do it right and quick.

My personal defense weapon is a Glock. Love it.

I don't think it's necessary to go without hearing protection as practice. You can still hear the bangs while wearing it and still hear the door knob jiggle when you need to which is more important in my opinion.

I can't believe how many like the glocks here. I hate them. They freaking spit the casings at your face. The last time I fired one I had a casing get caught in my shooting glasses. The last thing I want is a handgun that shoots forwards AND backwards.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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Why, for example, aren't people bashing the Walther P99 for being ugly?

Because almost everyone agrees, and it's not exactly a best seller.

Personally, I'd rather have a 229 or 226 over any glock. Or P7M8 or USP45. If CCW was an option (you people keep talking about conceal carry despite the fact that it's likely not an option for the OP), glocks might be more interesting, but they still won't beat out the P7.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I don't have plans to get a motorcycle in the immediate future, but I plan to get the license this fall. Same deal. Good to have because at the moment you decide you really want/need it, you don't want to have to then go about submitting the applications...

Frankly, motorcycling is much more complicated than safe gun use. Getting trained and licensed now, then expecting in a couple year to immediately be able to do it is not a good plan. We're already seeing the effects of a large increase in inexperienced riders on the road in response to gas prices. And those people are vaguely current (but current in crap, esp the scooter riders).

A gun owner can always go to the range. And the common sense rules about where to point it and to check the chamber don't require much mental review.

[mnealtx 0]

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I think being used to the noise makes you a more accurate shooter. Just a suggestion.

Look up 'auditory exclusion' and quit fucking up your ears, bro!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NelKel 0]

I agree about carrying a handy cellular phone.

However, I don't think it's quite accurate to say that "you have to prove fear for your life" -- you may have to demonstrate that a reasonable person would have feared for her life in the situation you faced. It's not about proof of anything, it's about getting others (usually either the cops, the DA, or a grand jury well before it's a jury of 12) to say, "Yeah, I'd'a done the same thing -- look at what she was facing!" <<<<<<

then you will have to suppena the cop and the DA because the jury in the civil case will need that information, whenthe family sues you for wrongful killing their son or daughter.


I don't agree. I think that semi-auto handguns of the type like the Glocks, SAs, Kimbers, S&Ws, are common enough that they are eminently defensible for self defense use. One avenue of defending them is the fact that they are in widespread use by police departments. I wouldn't recommend going around with a 33 round mag in your Glock 22, but the standard 15+1 should not cause you legal trouble in this day and age. <<<<

I would agree with yuor ststment here if it were a home invasion, but in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart pulling out a 1000 dollar kimber will only wind up in the cops confiscating a 1000 dollar gun. You may eventualy get it back, maybe the same day but you have to weigh the cost of the weapon. A 250 - 300 dollar 38+p snub nose is eiser to hide and when you get home the Kimber is still there for home defense.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[birdlike 0]

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I don't think it's necessary to go without hearing protection as practice. You can still hear the bangs while wearing it and still hear the door knob jiggle when you need to which is more important in my opinion.

I was thinking the same way about that. I doubt it takes much shooting with a .40S&W before you lose a measurable amount of hearing ability. My friend and I once made the mistake of popping off some rounds from his .25 Beretta at the end of a day shooting at an outdoor range, and it hurt like all fuck, man. Like icepicks in the ears. Or cast iron Q-tips or something.

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I can't believe how many like the glocks here. I hate them. They freaking spit the casings at your face.

Never had that as an issue with any Glocks I've fired. What's the deal with that? Mine go up and to the right, plenty of clearance.

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The last time I fired one I had a casing get caught in my shooting glasses.

One question to probe this: were you shooting in a lane at an indoor range or something, where the casing (thank god you called it a casing, not a "shell") may have bounced off a partition after going the right way?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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then you will have to suppena the cop and the DA because the jury in the civil case will need that information, whenthe family sues you for wrongful killing their son or daughter.

In enlightened jurisdictions there is the "castle doctrine," which in its recently expanded form protects from criminal and civil liability a person who has used deadly force in justifiable self defense.

That means that if you were justified in shooting, you won't be prosecuted. And NO ONE CAN SUE YOU IN CIVIL COURT, EITHER.

If I, here in Florida, shoot a carjacker and it's determined that I acted in self defense, his family can't do SHIT. And that's how it OUGHT to be--everywhere.

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I would agree with yuor ststment here if it were a home invasion, but in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart pulling out a 1000 dollar kimber will only wind up in the cops confiscating a 1000 dollar gun.

Forgive me, but I don't think you can really "know" that. I think that a lot will depend on how clear-cut the case for self defense was. It's not automatic that everyone who shoots someone gets hauled in and booked and has to wait for the DA to see if he feels like prosecuting a righteous man.

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You may eventualy get it back, maybe the same day but you have to weigh the cost of the weapon. A 250 - 300 dollar 38+p snub nose is eiser to hide and when you get home the Kimber is still there for home defense.

Well, I don't have the Kimber, but I do have the $300 .38 +p snubbie.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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Personally, I'd rather have a 229 or 226 over any glock. Or P7M8 or USP45. If CCW was an option (you people keep talking about conceal carry despite the fact that it's likely not an option for the OP), glocks might be more interesting, but they still won't beat out the P7.

I have my choice of Glock or USP and I still pick the Glock for EDC. Why? I am a fiend for ultrasimplicity. I love the fact that I can separate every single part of my Glock from every single other part. I know that does not factor into using it in a shooting scenario, but it does help me to have ultraconfidence in the gun.

Now, as for the P7, yes, it's a fascinating gun and I know it is practically revered. I'd love to have one. But doesn't it cost about three times what a Glock costs? My G22 ran $529. I think that P7s are like upwards of $1200, aren't they?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[warpedskydiver 0]

I use a P226, and that is all I need, YMMV

[kelpdiver 2]

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Now, as for the P7, yes, it's a fascinating gun and I know it is practically revered. I'd love to have one. But doesn't it cost about three times what a Glock costs? My G22 ran $529. I think that P7s are like upwards of $1200, aren't they?

Around 2000, there was a large batch of returned P7s - supposedly ordered and then not accepted by an Austrian police force. So a whole bunch were sold at $699, and that's California pricing, with the glocks at about the same - maybe tad lower at 650.

Would I pay 1300 for it now...unlikely, with the sigs running in the 800s.

[Trent 0]

CDNN Investments is selling German police tradein P6's for some pretty good prices. I think they have 3 levels of condition and don't go over $600 or so. I just saw it in the catalog the other day, they're not advertised online that I've seen.

Oh, hello again!

[mnealtx 0]

I like my 9mm's pre-expanded, thanks...

I'm a 1911 guy.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[StreetScooby 5]

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So, last year, I had a former patient stalking me on here.

I just read this entire thread, and I'm surprised no one mentioned the issue of weapon retention. It's an important consideration when you decide to carry anything. Never forget, they can take it from you and use it on you. Thus, you really need to be willing to use the weapon well before they get close to you.

We are all engines of karma

[mnealtx 0]

IT's a good point, but you're talking about some pretty advanced stuff, there.

IMO - if you haven't stopped the threat by the time they're within arm's reach, you're already in pretty big trouble.

"Taking the gun away" is pretty over-hyped, IMO (again).

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706