Leapinglizardto 0 #301 July 7, 2008 wow, you guys are still going at this, holy crap. It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #302 July 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteWe know that God allowed sin, becasue the bible says that God created satan to work havoc and destroy, Rubbish......i would suggest actually reading the bible before making incorrect statements... Quote Are you under the impression that the bible suggests there is more than one God? Then God created everything for his purpose didnt he? But if thats not enough, take Isaiah 54:16-17... You still haven't bothered to read it all, but just cut and paste some rubbish that you dont really understand. So let me cut and paste from a post i made in another thread, and hopefully this will spell it out for you.. Genesis 3: 22 “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever” Well, well, well. It appears here that what the devil said was true. God himself says that mankind can now judge right and wrong, knowing good and evil. It seems to me here that Satan was just trying to wake us up from the ignorance God had us in. Which begs the question: Why does god now punish mankind for committing a sin when we don’t know what good or evil is? Sure, he may have told us not to eat the apple, but how could we have understood the implications of this action, since we had no notion of good or evil? If we don’t know how to be good, then we wouldn’t recognize something as evil. Again, evil is defined as something “that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction”. Well according to the punishment God deals out in the following passages as the result of tasting the apple, that taste could definitely be defined as evil. Genesis 3: 16-19 “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” Well that certainly sounds like suffering to me, and this is just the tip of the iceberg of God’s cruelty to those who sin against him. So because Eve and Adam ate the fruit of the tree, without knowing the difference between right (good) and wrong (evil), Eve’s sorrow will be greatly multiplied, and have sorrowful conception, and serve her husband, and Adam has all of the ground cursed and it will be hard labor for him to grow food. So to return to our main point of whether or not we can judge God as good or evil, I think it is obvious that we can. All you have to do is read the scripture in which God himself says we know good and evil as he does, “…the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…” Genesis 3: 22. As a human who knows good and evil, I judge the biblical god to be evil by definition. Well if God is evil, then what is Satan? Why did God cast Satan out, and what is his punishment? Satan was proud, and rose up against God (Isaiah 15: 13-14, Ezekiel 28: 14-19). Therefore, he is judged, bruised, chained in darkness, and sent to Hell (John 12: 31, John 16: 11, Romans 16:20, Jude 6, 2 Peter 2: 4, Matthew 25: 41). It’s interesting to note that Satan was an angel (Isaiah 14: 12) who was perfect (Ezekiel 29: 15) and beautiful (Ezekiel 28: 17). The angels had free will, as is indicated by the fact that Satan chose to go against God. If he had known the punishment, he would not have had true free will. However, it says nowhere that Satan knew he would be sent to hell for his actions. It is only after he rebels that he is punished. The angels were created before man, and as free moral agents, some revolted against God. Therefore, God made mankind, and made him ignorant of good and evil. We didn’t gain the ability to judge good or evil until after the fall, and then God punished us for doing what he knew we would do(he’s omniscient, remember?). It’s as if God knew that once we realized the difference between good and evil as the angel’s did, we would see him for what he truly is. Satan led a rebellion against God in Heaven and was cast out for it. Well, since we’ve established that God is evil by definition, wouldn’t fighting against God be considered an act of goodness?----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #303 July 7, 2008 Quote I may define perfect different than you. We all live in and are part of a universe perfectly controlled by physical laws. The physics that defines our existence is perfect, so we are perfect. This would not make any sense. If our perfection or imperfection is external and comes from and depends on something outside, the it doesn't make any sense to not sin or to follow Jesus. Quote Our bodies are designed to grow old and die, that is not imperfection. Actually they weren't according to the Bible. Growing old and dying was a part of God's punishment for Adam and Eva for "apple rule violation", followed by their Edem expulsion. Quote It is my belief that God created the initial members of our species in a state of spiritual purity. You didn't exactly answer the question; what is "spiritual purity"? Does it mean "inability to sin"? Or just a "clean slate", like the babies are born right now? Quote They used their free will to chose the knowledge of good and evil over the Knowledge of God. Then it means the God created the people being able to chose the knowledge of good and evil over the Knowledge of God, and therefore the God should be fine with this. What do you think? Quote As far as actions, I see it that we are either in Gods spiritual reality or we are not. I don't see what perfect/imperfect has to do with it. Are you equating perfection with acceptable to God? I'm equating perfection with "doing what the God wants us to do, and not doing what the God does not want us to do". The "acceptance" is too vague word, and for this discussion like this I'd like to avoid interpretations whenever possible. That's why I'm trying to be very specific, and it would really help if you're too :) Quote I guess we will just disagree on this point. Why? You seemed to already agree that the God knows the future for any of us. What exactly you're disagreeing? Quote I agree with you, He doesn't. I believe He is doing it for us to see. But what sense it makes for everyone, who is already dead, and therefore cannot change anything? It won't have any educational effect (since it's too late); what for?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #304 July 7, 2008 Quote 24Jesus told them another parable I was asking those questions (and I believe I explicitly mentioned it) that I wanted to know that my opponent thought about the subject. Not what the Bible said about it. Trust me, if I ever need to know what the Bible says about something, I will find it myself. Thank you.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Leapinglizardto 0 #305 July 7, 2008 Quote for "apple fig rule violation" fixed it for ya. when properly translated it was a fig. hence the 'fig leaf' of shame. that is of course, if you're a big fan of fiction. It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #306 July 7, 2008 You are greatly decieved. Nevertheless, how exactly does this explain that God didnt create satan and allow sin? Which is what we were talking about. You all should know that I still beileve in the balance of good and evil, but that love has power over them both. And, you should know that I also believe we are evil, wicked, and sinful, thats exactly why we need a savior. To snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #307 July 8, 2008 This would not make any sense. If our perfection or imperfection is external and comes from and depends on something outside, the it doesn't make any sense to not sin or to follow Jesus.Quote Sorry, don't follow your point. Our bodies perfectly conform to physical laws. Our spirits have the free will choice to conform to God's law or a law of our own choosing. Actually they weren't according to the Bible. Growing old and dying was a part of God's punishment for Adam and Eva for "apple rule violation", followed by their Edem expulsion.QuoteThat was true before the awareness of good and evil, now perfect function of living things is to grow old and die. You didn't exactly answer the question; what is "spiritual purity"? Does it mean "inability to sin"? Or just a "clean slate", like the babies are born right now?QuoteSpiritual purity is having a mind like Gods. There is no sin in Gods reality. We had to learn self deification through the knowledge of good and evil in order to sin. Then it means the God created the people being able to chose the knowledge of good and evil over the Knowledge of God, and therefore the God should be fine with this. What do you think?QuoteHe allows it, so He must be fine with it. I'm equating perfection with "doing what the God wants us to do, and not doing what the God does not want us to do". The "acceptance" is too vague word, and for this discussion like this I'd like to avoid interpretations whenever possible. That's why I'm trying to be very specific, and it would really help if you're too Quote Not sure what your objection is, but I don't classify behavior as perfect or imperfect. We are either in God's will and are acceptable or we are not and thereby rejected. But what sense it makes for everyone, who is already dead, and therefore cannot change anything? It won't have any educational effect (since it's too late); what for?QuoteThere will be a resurrection of all the dead. Small and great as it is described. Everyone will give an accounting of their actions. All the whining by some who lived here on earth that there is to much suffering, God is to harsh, God does not make any sense, His physical laws allows for creation to function perfectly therefore what need to we have for a God, etc, will probably be non-issues then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #308 July 8, 2008 <>"Have you guys found a pair of cufflinks? They're mother of pearl..." Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #309 July 8, 2008 Quote >"Have you guys found a pair of cufflinks? They're mother of pearl..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeanJeanie 0 #310 July 8, 2008 QuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Righteousness, mercy, goodness, and compassion are not defined by dogma. Love is something man created to differentiate us from the animals. But, if there is a God, we are his biggest joke. He was bored on the 6th day, the animals had it down, breeding, they knew the pecking order and didn't question it. God said, "let me create man and woman, two completely different species, give them the ability to cross breed, give them animal instincts and the ability to reason." One the 7thy day, God laughed! I really respect other people's views and beliefs as their own. Religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing, but this holier than thou dialog has been really fun to read, and I couldn't resist. BTW, when are ya'll gonna be disappeared? I want your house! Peace, Jeanie~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #311 July 8, 2008 Quote Sorry, don't follow your point. Our bodies perfectly conform to physical laws. Our spirits have the free will choice to conform to God's law or a law of our own choosing. Ok. So were our spirits created perfect as well? Quote Spiritual purity is having a mind like Gods. There is no sin in Gods reality. We had to learn self deification through the knowledge of good and evil in order to sin. I don't know what "having a mind like Gods" is. Is it being born sinless, or living a sinless life? Quote Not sure what your objection is, but I don't classify behavior as perfect or imperfect. We are either in God's will and are acceptable or we are not and thereby rejected. A "perfect behavior" is something the God wants us to do according to Christians (like do not steal, pray Jesus and so on). Quote There will be a resurrection of all the dead. Small and great as it is described. Everyone will give an accounting of their actions. But the God already knows how everyone would behave, and could give an accounting of their actions right there. Moreover, if he doesn't like the actions and wants the people to act differently, he has the power to change it. Why not to use it then?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #312 July 8, 2008 Humans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. Yes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #313 July 8, 2008 Quote Humans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. First, humans do not really have free will. There are restrictions, both physical (could you stop sleeping? could you eat a stone?) and from the society. Second, if you accept the God being omniscient, the whole concept of "free will" is useless to God since the omniscient creature would know in any given moment how any of us was, is, or will be behaving. Quote Yes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. I do not agree. It might look valueless for you, but it doesn't mean it's valueless for God. Remember, God works in his own ways. The second thing is that for an omnipotent creature nothing could have value (just think about it). Quote Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Yes, until proven otherwise. Wanna try?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,271 #314 July 8, 2008 QuoteHumans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. So your God is not omniscient? That's where the glaring incosistencies tend to creep into the religious mythologies. QuoteYes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. Why would a God particularly care about love from beings as tiny, brief and limited (relatively speaking) as humans anyway? I don't get why religions postulate such immense, incredible beings on an unimaginable scale, and then proceed to imagine them being totally hung up on the minutiae of human existence. Wierd. QuoteHardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Maybe, maybe not. Whether freewill is real or just an illusion doesn't really matter much to an atheistic worldview, since the perception is the same either way. To a fair few religions, the Abrahamic ones certainly, it's an insolvable paradox. Either triple-O God, or freewill. Not both.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #315 July 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Righteousness, mercy, goodness, and compassion are not defined by dogma. Love is something man created to differentiate us from the animals. But, if there is a God, we are his biggest joke. He was bored on the 6th day, the animals had it down, breeding, they knew the pecking order and didn't question it. God said, "let me create man and woman, two completely different species, give them the ability to cross breed, give them animal instincts and the ability to reason." One the 7thy day, God laughed! I really respect other people's views and beliefs as their own. Religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing, but this holier than thou dialog has been really fun to read, and I couldn't resist. BTW, when are ya'll gonna be disappeared? I want your house! Peace, Jeanie You and I believe differently. But did you happen to notice my signoff. Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Everyone fears something, it can be a beautiful guide for us. Again, what we know about Heaven and Hell is very little. Im ny walk with Jesus I have begun to understand that Heaven and Hell, although could also be places, are more conditions or states of the heart. That is, Heaven is with God, Hell is without. Nevertheless, you and I believe very differently in regards to love. Even if love were created by us or not, it is very powerful, enough to destroy and empower. Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help??"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,463 #316 July 8, 2008 > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #317 July 8, 2008 Quote Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. WTF? The point is not that atheists think that free will is an illusion (where did you get that idea from anyway?) but that an omniscient god precludes free will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #318 July 9, 2008 Quote(where did you get that idea from anyway?) from one of the atheists in Speakers Corner. not you, I guess. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #319 July 9, 2008 I don't know what "having a mind like Gods" is. Is it being born sinless, or living a sinless life?Quote We were originally created with a mind like Gods. Gods reality and that of original humans was the same. After the fall we must now relearn what we have lost. The work of Christ and Truth found in the Bible is our best bet. But the God already knows how everyone would behave, and could give an accounting of their actions right there. Moreover, if he doesn't like the actions and wants the people to act differently, he has the power to change it. Why not to use it then?Quote God could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. I don't see why foreknowledge is so hard to understand in relation to free will. Knowledge of past events do not influence the free will that made them. In general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. One would not have more influence over free will than the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites br0k3n 0 #320 July 9, 2008 QuoteGod could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. And you have based this statement on what evidence exactly?? More likey is that you just made this statement up because it supports you belief.. a common trend with religous beilief due to the complete lack of evidence.----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #321 July 9, 2008 Quote > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. We dont all believe the same things do we? But, if love takes courage and courage takes fear, is there any other way to see it? I have no problem admitting I have fear in my life, well maybe I do, oops but I just did, didnt I?No, but seriously, this revelation was a beautiful thing in my spiritual understanding, While I have found that God inspires us to fear him, it is a beautiful fear...a very beautiful fear. I have begun to understand that there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeanJeanie 0 #322 July 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Peace, Jeanie Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help?? I should clarify, I do have fear, fear is good, if we don't let it control us, it keeps us alive, but I do not fear hellfire and brimstone. I am not perfect, but i am on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to evil. And if you think you need help from an outside source, then cool. My help comes from within. As for "holier than thou" comment I made let me quote you "haven't seen god's beautiful light" "The skeptic will only change when he decides to believe." "while your belief seems to be fashioned around the conscience for its power, mine is fashioned around a limitless love and desire to be the righteousness of God. " "To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist." "that us, his greatest and most tresured creation" ">>>>Born into a buddahist household, I surely would have followed the path of enlightenment. I can only thank God with great gratitude that I was able to find Jesus. " "One day, maybe logic will tell you that faith is where the power actually is." I could go on.... Personally, I believe that Jesus was a cool man that had it going on. Just as I believe that the Dalai Lama is a cool man, do I believe he was reincarnated? No. But I will choose to listen to his teachings of compassion and forgiveness before I would ever listen to a preacher. Jesus too, I believe, was sorely misunderstood and later, misrepresented. I don't buy a virgin birth, nor the raised from the dead story. If all religion did was teach the love that Jesus purportedly taught, that would be cool. But then they lumped fear fear fear................. I prefer to fear what is real (in my reality). PeaceOut, Jeans PS and if we are his most treasured creation, he is a pretty twisted sort..... A serious question, do you think he listens to us pray, and honestly what do you pray for? Have you ever prayed for a better job, or to not run out of gas when you are on empty, or world peace? (this is a serious question)~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites br0k3n 0 #323 July 9, 2008 QuoteA serious question, do you think he listens to us pray No, its been tested he failed Miserably. In fact Matthew 6:5-6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly So god tells us he will answer prayer, so hes either a lier, or most likely isnt there...----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Erroll 49 #324 July 9, 2008 Quote....there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear. Well, that settles it then. Nobody can argue with that. Really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #325 July 9, 2008 QuoteIn general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. Please elaborate. How does general relativity allow observations into the future?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next Page 13 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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georgerussia 0 #303 July 7, 2008 Quote I may define perfect different than you. We all live in and are part of a universe perfectly controlled by physical laws. The physics that defines our existence is perfect, so we are perfect. This would not make any sense. If our perfection or imperfection is external and comes from and depends on something outside, the it doesn't make any sense to not sin or to follow Jesus. Quote Our bodies are designed to grow old and die, that is not imperfection. Actually they weren't according to the Bible. Growing old and dying was a part of God's punishment for Adam and Eva for "apple rule violation", followed by their Edem expulsion. Quote It is my belief that God created the initial members of our species in a state of spiritual purity. You didn't exactly answer the question; what is "spiritual purity"? Does it mean "inability to sin"? Or just a "clean slate", like the babies are born right now? Quote They used their free will to chose the knowledge of good and evil over the Knowledge of God. Then it means the God created the people being able to chose the knowledge of good and evil over the Knowledge of God, and therefore the God should be fine with this. What do you think? Quote As far as actions, I see it that we are either in Gods spiritual reality or we are not. I don't see what perfect/imperfect has to do with it. Are you equating perfection with acceptable to God? I'm equating perfection with "doing what the God wants us to do, and not doing what the God does not want us to do". The "acceptance" is too vague word, and for this discussion like this I'd like to avoid interpretations whenever possible. That's why I'm trying to be very specific, and it would really help if you're too :) Quote I guess we will just disagree on this point. Why? You seemed to already agree that the God knows the future for any of us. What exactly you're disagreeing? Quote I agree with you, He doesn't. I believe He is doing it for us to see. But what sense it makes for everyone, who is already dead, and therefore cannot change anything? It won't have any educational effect (since it's too late); what for?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #304 July 7, 2008 Quote 24Jesus told them another parable I was asking those questions (and I believe I explicitly mentioned it) that I wanted to know that my opponent thought about the subject. Not what the Bible said about it. Trust me, if I ever need to know what the Bible says about something, I will find it myself. Thank you.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leapinglizardto 0 #305 July 7, 2008 Quote for "apple fig rule violation" fixed it for ya. when properly translated it was a fig. hence the 'fig leaf' of shame. that is of course, if you're a big fan of fiction. It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #306 July 7, 2008 You are greatly decieved. Nevertheless, how exactly does this explain that God didnt create satan and allow sin? Which is what we were talking about. You all should know that I still beileve in the balance of good and evil, but that love has power over them both. And, you should know that I also believe we are evil, wicked, and sinful, thats exactly why we need a savior. To snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #307 July 8, 2008 This would not make any sense. If our perfection or imperfection is external and comes from and depends on something outside, the it doesn't make any sense to not sin or to follow Jesus.Quote Sorry, don't follow your point. Our bodies perfectly conform to physical laws. Our spirits have the free will choice to conform to God's law or a law of our own choosing. Actually they weren't according to the Bible. Growing old and dying was a part of God's punishment for Adam and Eva for "apple rule violation", followed by their Edem expulsion.QuoteThat was true before the awareness of good and evil, now perfect function of living things is to grow old and die. You didn't exactly answer the question; what is "spiritual purity"? Does it mean "inability to sin"? Or just a "clean slate", like the babies are born right now?QuoteSpiritual purity is having a mind like Gods. There is no sin in Gods reality. We had to learn self deification through the knowledge of good and evil in order to sin. Then it means the God created the people being able to chose the knowledge of good and evil over the Knowledge of God, and therefore the God should be fine with this. What do you think?QuoteHe allows it, so He must be fine with it. I'm equating perfection with "doing what the God wants us to do, and not doing what the God does not want us to do". The "acceptance" is too vague word, and for this discussion like this I'd like to avoid interpretations whenever possible. That's why I'm trying to be very specific, and it would really help if you're too Quote Not sure what your objection is, but I don't classify behavior as perfect or imperfect. We are either in God's will and are acceptable or we are not and thereby rejected. But what sense it makes for everyone, who is already dead, and therefore cannot change anything? It won't have any educational effect (since it's too late); what for?QuoteThere will be a resurrection of all the dead. Small and great as it is described. Everyone will give an accounting of their actions. All the whining by some who lived here on earth that there is to much suffering, God is to harsh, God does not make any sense, His physical laws allows for creation to function perfectly therefore what need to we have for a God, etc, will probably be non-issues then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #308 July 8, 2008 <>"Have you guys found a pair of cufflinks? They're mother of pearl..." Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #309 July 8, 2008 Quote >"Have you guys found a pair of cufflinks? They're mother of pearl..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeanJeanie 0 #310 July 8, 2008 QuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Righteousness, mercy, goodness, and compassion are not defined by dogma. Love is something man created to differentiate us from the animals. But, if there is a God, we are his biggest joke. He was bored on the 6th day, the animals had it down, breeding, they knew the pecking order and didn't question it. God said, "let me create man and woman, two completely different species, give them the ability to cross breed, give them animal instincts and the ability to reason." One the 7thy day, God laughed! I really respect other people's views and beliefs as their own. Religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing, but this holier than thou dialog has been really fun to read, and I couldn't resist. BTW, when are ya'll gonna be disappeared? I want your house! Peace, Jeanie~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #311 July 8, 2008 Quote Sorry, don't follow your point. Our bodies perfectly conform to physical laws. Our spirits have the free will choice to conform to God's law or a law of our own choosing. Ok. So were our spirits created perfect as well? Quote Spiritual purity is having a mind like Gods. There is no sin in Gods reality. We had to learn self deification through the knowledge of good and evil in order to sin. I don't know what "having a mind like Gods" is. Is it being born sinless, or living a sinless life? Quote Not sure what your objection is, but I don't classify behavior as perfect or imperfect. We are either in God's will and are acceptable or we are not and thereby rejected. A "perfect behavior" is something the God wants us to do according to Christians (like do not steal, pray Jesus and so on). Quote There will be a resurrection of all the dead. Small and great as it is described. Everyone will give an accounting of their actions. But the God already knows how everyone would behave, and could give an accounting of their actions right there. Moreover, if he doesn't like the actions and wants the people to act differently, he has the power to change it. Why not to use it then?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #312 July 8, 2008 Humans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. Yes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #313 July 8, 2008 Quote Humans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. First, humans do not really have free will. There are restrictions, both physical (could you stop sleeping? could you eat a stone?) and from the society. Second, if you accept the God being omniscient, the whole concept of "free will" is useless to God since the omniscient creature would know in any given moment how any of us was, is, or will be behaving. Quote Yes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. I do not agree. It might look valueless for you, but it doesn't mean it's valueless for God. Remember, God works in his own ways. The second thing is that for an omnipotent creature nothing could have value (just think about it). Quote Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Yes, until proven otherwise. Wanna try?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,271 #314 July 8, 2008 QuoteHumans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. So your God is not omniscient? That's where the glaring incosistencies tend to creep into the religious mythologies. QuoteYes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. Why would a God particularly care about love from beings as tiny, brief and limited (relatively speaking) as humans anyway? I don't get why religions postulate such immense, incredible beings on an unimaginable scale, and then proceed to imagine them being totally hung up on the minutiae of human existence. Wierd. QuoteHardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Maybe, maybe not. Whether freewill is real or just an illusion doesn't really matter much to an atheistic worldview, since the perception is the same either way. To a fair few religions, the Abrahamic ones certainly, it's an insolvable paradox. Either triple-O God, or freewill. Not both.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #315 July 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Righteousness, mercy, goodness, and compassion are not defined by dogma. Love is something man created to differentiate us from the animals. But, if there is a God, we are his biggest joke. He was bored on the 6th day, the animals had it down, breeding, they knew the pecking order and didn't question it. God said, "let me create man and woman, two completely different species, give them the ability to cross breed, give them animal instincts and the ability to reason." One the 7thy day, God laughed! I really respect other people's views and beliefs as their own. Religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing, but this holier than thou dialog has been really fun to read, and I couldn't resist. BTW, when are ya'll gonna be disappeared? I want your house! Peace, Jeanie You and I believe differently. But did you happen to notice my signoff. Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Everyone fears something, it can be a beautiful guide for us. Again, what we know about Heaven and Hell is very little. Im ny walk with Jesus I have begun to understand that Heaven and Hell, although could also be places, are more conditions or states of the heart. That is, Heaven is with God, Hell is without. Nevertheless, you and I believe very differently in regards to love. Even if love were created by us or not, it is very powerful, enough to destroy and empower. Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help??"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,463 #316 July 8, 2008 > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #317 July 8, 2008 Quote Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. WTF? The point is not that atheists think that free will is an illusion (where did you get that idea from anyway?) but that an omniscient god precludes free will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #318 July 9, 2008 Quote(where did you get that idea from anyway?) from one of the atheists in Speakers Corner. not you, I guess. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #319 July 9, 2008 I don't know what "having a mind like Gods" is. Is it being born sinless, or living a sinless life?Quote We were originally created with a mind like Gods. Gods reality and that of original humans was the same. After the fall we must now relearn what we have lost. The work of Christ and Truth found in the Bible is our best bet. But the God already knows how everyone would behave, and could give an accounting of their actions right there. Moreover, if he doesn't like the actions and wants the people to act differently, he has the power to change it. Why not to use it then?Quote God could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. I don't see why foreknowledge is so hard to understand in relation to free will. Knowledge of past events do not influence the free will that made them. In general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. One would not have more influence over free will than the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites br0k3n 0 #320 July 9, 2008 QuoteGod could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. And you have based this statement on what evidence exactly?? More likey is that you just made this statement up because it supports you belief.. a common trend with religous beilief due to the complete lack of evidence.----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #321 July 9, 2008 Quote > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. We dont all believe the same things do we? But, if love takes courage and courage takes fear, is there any other way to see it? I have no problem admitting I have fear in my life, well maybe I do, oops but I just did, didnt I?No, but seriously, this revelation was a beautiful thing in my spiritual understanding, While I have found that God inspires us to fear him, it is a beautiful fear...a very beautiful fear. I have begun to understand that there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeanJeanie 0 #322 July 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Peace, Jeanie Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help?? I should clarify, I do have fear, fear is good, if we don't let it control us, it keeps us alive, but I do not fear hellfire and brimstone. I am not perfect, but i am on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to evil. And if you think you need help from an outside source, then cool. My help comes from within. As for "holier than thou" comment I made let me quote you "haven't seen god's beautiful light" "The skeptic will only change when he decides to believe." "while your belief seems to be fashioned around the conscience for its power, mine is fashioned around a limitless love and desire to be the righteousness of God. " "To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist." "that us, his greatest and most tresured creation" ">>>>Born into a buddahist household, I surely would have followed the path of enlightenment. I can only thank God with great gratitude that I was able to find Jesus. " "One day, maybe logic will tell you that faith is where the power actually is." I could go on.... Personally, I believe that Jesus was a cool man that had it going on. Just as I believe that the Dalai Lama is a cool man, do I believe he was reincarnated? No. But I will choose to listen to his teachings of compassion and forgiveness before I would ever listen to a preacher. Jesus too, I believe, was sorely misunderstood and later, misrepresented. I don't buy a virgin birth, nor the raised from the dead story. If all religion did was teach the love that Jesus purportedly taught, that would be cool. But then they lumped fear fear fear................. I prefer to fear what is real (in my reality). PeaceOut, Jeans PS and if we are his most treasured creation, he is a pretty twisted sort..... A serious question, do you think he listens to us pray, and honestly what do you pray for? Have you ever prayed for a better job, or to not run out of gas when you are on empty, or world peace? (this is a serious question)~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites br0k3n 0 #323 July 9, 2008 QuoteA serious question, do you think he listens to us pray No, its been tested he failed Miserably. In fact Matthew 6:5-6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly So god tells us he will answer prayer, so hes either a lier, or most likely isnt there...----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Erroll 49 #324 July 9, 2008 Quote....there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear. Well, that settles it then. Nobody can argue with that. Really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #325 July 9, 2008 QuoteIn general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. Please elaborate. How does general relativity allow observations into the future?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next Page 13 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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SpeedRacer 1 #308 July 8, 2008 <>"Have you guys found a pair of cufflinks? They're mother of pearl..." Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #309 July 8, 2008 Quote >"Have you guys found a pair of cufflinks? They're mother of pearl..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeanJeanie 0 #310 July 8, 2008 QuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Righteousness, mercy, goodness, and compassion are not defined by dogma. Love is something man created to differentiate us from the animals. But, if there is a God, we are his biggest joke. He was bored on the 6th day, the animals had it down, breeding, they knew the pecking order and didn't question it. God said, "let me create man and woman, two completely different species, give them the ability to cross breed, give them animal instincts and the ability to reason." One the 7thy day, God laughed! I really respect other people's views and beliefs as their own. Religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing, but this holier than thou dialog has been really fun to read, and I couldn't resist. BTW, when are ya'll gonna be disappeared? I want your house! Peace, Jeanie~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #311 July 8, 2008 Quote Sorry, don't follow your point. Our bodies perfectly conform to physical laws. Our spirits have the free will choice to conform to God's law or a law of our own choosing. Ok. So were our spirits created perfect as well? Quote Spiritual purity is having a mind like Gods. There is no sin in Gods reality. We had to learn self deification through the knowledge of good and evil in order to sin. I don't know what "having a mind like Gods" is. Is it being born sinless, or living a sinless life? Quote Not sure what your objection is, but I don't classify behavior as perfect or imperfect. We are either in God's will and are acceptable or we are not and thereby rejected. A "perfect behavior" is something the God wants us to do according to Christians (like do not steal, pray Jesus and so on). Quote There will be a resurrection of all the dead. Small and great as it is described. Everyone will give an accounting of their actions. But the God already knows how everyone would behave, and could give an accounting of their actions right there. Moreover, if he doesn't like the actions and wants the people to act differently, he has the power to change it. Why not to use it then?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #312 July 8, 2008 Humans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. Yes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #313 July 8, 2008 Quote Humans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. First, humans do not really have free will. There are restrictions, both physical (could you stop sleeping? could you eat a stone?) and from the society. Second, if you accept the God being omniscient, the whole concept of "free will" is useless to God since the omniscient creature would know in any given moment how any of us was, is, or will be behaving. Quote Yes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. I do not agree. It might look valueless for you, but it doesn't mean it's valueless for God. Remember, God works in his own ways. The second thing is that for an omnipotent creature nothing could have value (just think about it). Quote Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Yes, until proven otherwise. Wanna try?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,271 #314 July 8, 2008 QuoteHumans have free will. So you are incorrect when you say human behavior is predetermined. So your God is not omniscient? That's where the glaring incosistencies tend to creep into the religious mythologies. QuoteYes, God could have made a bunch of organic automatons that never go wrong. But that wouldn't be human beings. Love from such "enitities" would be valueless. Why would a God particularly care about love from beings as tiny, brief and limited (relatively speaking) as humans anyway? I don't get why religions postulate such immense, incredible beings on an unimaginable scale, and then proceed to imagine them being totally hung up on the minutiae of human existence. Wierd. QuoteHardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. Maybe, maybe not. Whether freewill is real or just an illusion doesn't really matter much to an atheistic worldview, since the perception is the same either way. To a fair few religions, the Abrahamic ones certainly, it's an insolvable paradox. Either triple-O God, or freewill. Not both.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #315 July 8, 2008 QuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Righteousness, mercy, goodness, and compassion are not defined by dogma. Love is something man created to differentiate us from the animals. But, if there is a God, we are his biggest joke. He was bored on the 6th day, the animals had it down, breeding, they knew the pecking order and didn't question it. God said, "let me create man and woman, two completely different species, give them the ability to cross breed, give them animal instincts and the ability to reason." One the 7thy day, God laughed! I really respect other people's views and beliefs as their own. Religion, or lack thereof, is a personal thing, but this holier than thou dialog has been really fun to read, and I couldn't resist. BTW, when are ya'll gonna be disappeared? I want your house! Peace, Jeanie You and I believe differently. But did you happen to notice my signoff. Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Everyone fears something, it can be a beautiful guide for us. Again, what we know about Heaven and Hell is very little. Im ny walk with Jesus I have begun to understand that Heaven and Hell, although could also be places, are more conditions or states of the heart. That is, Heaven is with God, Hell is without. Nevertheless, you and I believe very differently in regards to love. Even if love were created by us or not, it is very powerful, enough to destroy and empower. Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help??"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #316 July 8, 2008 > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #317 July 8, 2008 Quote Hardcore Atheists (those who don't believe spirituality exists in any way shape or form) have trouble with this concept, because they believe that human beings REALLY ARE just soulless, organic automatons, and that free will is just an illusion. WTF? The point is not that atheists think that free will is an illusion (where did you get that idea from anyway?) but that an omniscient god precludes free will. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #318 July 9, 2008 Quote(where did you get that idea from anyway?) from one of the atheists in Speakers Corner. not you, I guess. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #319 July 9, 2008 I don't know what "having a mind like Gods" is. Is it being born sinless, or living a sinless life?Quote We were originally created with a mind like Gods. Gods reality and that of original humans was the same. After the fall we must now relearn what we have lost. The work of Christ and Truth found in the Bible is our best bet. But the God already knows how everyone would behave, and could give an accounting of their actions right there. Moreover, if he doesn't like the actions and wants the people to act differently, he has the power to change it. Why not to use it then?Quote God could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. I don't see why foreknowledge is so hard to understand in relation to free will. Knowledge of past events do not influence the free will that made them. In general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. One would not have more influence over free will than the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites br0k3n 0 #320 July 9, 2008 QuoteGod could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. And you have based this statement on what evidence exactly?? More likey is that you just made this statement up because it supports you belief.. a common trend with religous beilief due to the complete lack of evidence.----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rynodigsmusic 0 #321 July 9, 2008 Quote > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. We dont all believe the same things do we? But, if love takes courage and courage takes fear, is there any other way to see it? I have no problem admitting I have fear in my life, well maybe I do, oops but I just did, didnt I?No, but seriously, this revelation was a beautiful thing in my spiritual understanding, While I have found that God inspires us to fear him, it is a beautiful fear...a very beautiful fear. I have begun to understand that there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeanJeanie 0 #322 July 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Peace, Jeanie Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help?? I should clarify, I do have fear, fear is good, if we don't let it control us, it keeps us alive, but I do not fear hellfire and brimstone. I am not perfect, but i am on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to evil. And if you think you need help from an outside source, then cool. My help comes from within. As for "holier than thou" comment I made let me quote you "haven't seen god's beautiful light" "The skeptic will only change when he decides to believe." "while your belief seems to be fashioned around the conscience for its power, mine is fashioned around a limitless love and desire to be the righteousness of God. " "To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist." "that us, his greatest and most tresured creation" ">>>>Born into a buddahist household, I surely would have followed the path of enlightenment. I can only thank God with great gratitude that I was able to find Jesus. " "One day, maybe logic will tell you that faith is where the power actually is." I could go on.... Personally, I believe that Jesus was a cool man that had it going on. Just as I believe that the Dalai Lama is a cool man, do I believe he was reincarnated? No. But I will choose to listen to his teachings of compassion and forgiveness before I would ever listen to a preacher. Jesus too, I believe, was sorely misunderstood and later, misrepresented. I don't buy a virgin birth, nor the raised from the dead story. If all religion did was teach the love that Jesus purportedly taught, that would be cool. But then they lumped fear fear fear................. I prefer to fear what is real (in my reality). PeaceOut, Jeans PS and if we are his most treasured creation, he is a pretty twisted sort..... A serious question, do you think he listens to us pray, and honestly what do you pray for? Have you ever prayed for a better job, or to not run out of gas when you are on empty, or world peace? (this is a serious question)~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites br0k3n 0 #323 July 9, 2008 QuoteA serious question, do you think he listens to us pray No, its been tested he failed Miserably. In fact Matthew 6:5-6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly So god tells us he will answer prayer, so hes either a lier, or most likely isnt there...----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Erroll 49 #324 July 9, 2008 Quote....there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear. Well, that settles it then. Nobody can argue with that. Really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jcd11235 0 #325 July 9, 2008 QuoteIn general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. Please elaborate. How does general relativity allow observations into the future?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Next Page 13 of 15 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
br0k3n 0 #320 July 9, 2008 QuoteGod could influence our free will decisions, but He has chosen not to. And you have based this statement on what evidence exactly?? More likey is that you just made this statement up because it supports you belief.. a common trend with religous beilief due to the complete lack of evidence.----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #321 July 9, 2008 Quote > Love takes Fear. To live without fear is to live in a lie. Yikes. We dont all believe the same things do we? But, if love takes courage and courage takes fear, is there any other way to see it? I have no problem admitting I have fear in my life, well maybe I do, oops but I just did, didnt I?No, but seriously, this revelation was a beautiful thing in my spiritual understanding, While I have found that God inspires us to fear him, it is a beautiful fear...a very beautiful fear. I have begun to understand that there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeanJeanie 0 #322 July 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteTo snatch us from the fire. But, unfortunately you seem to be believing what you want to and until you see the truth, you will never see Gods beautiful light. Because we are not 'saved'. Haven't gotten on our knees and accepted Jesus Christ as our lord and savior. We won't "see Gods beautiful light". Fear a god of mercy, love, compassion? Fear hellfire and brimstone? From this same merciful god? Fear...fear....fear...... If I don't believe in heaven and hell, I guess I have nothing to fear. Peace, Jeanie Edited to add: How is it holier than thou to admit I am evil and in need of help?? I should clarify, I do have fear, fear is good, if we don't let it control us, it keeps us alive, but I do not fear hellfire and brimstone. I am not perfect, but i am on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to evil. And if you think you need help from an outside source, then cool. My help comes from within. As for "holier than thou" comment I made let me quote you "haven't seen god's beautiful light" "The skeptic will only change when he decides to believe." "while your belief seems to be fashioned around the conscience for its power, mine is fashioned around a limitless love and desire to be the righteousness of God. " "To say that God doesnt exist is to say that love doesnt exist." "that us, his greatest and most tresured creation" ">>>>Born into a buddahist household, I surely would have followed the path of enlightenment. I can only thank God with great gratitude that I was able to find Jesus. " "One day, maybe logic will tell you that faith is where the power actually is." I could go on.... Personally, I believe that Jesus was a cool man that had it going on. Just as I believe that the Dalai Lama is a cool man, do I believe he was reincarnated? No. But I will choose to listen to his teachings of compassion and forgiveness before I would ever listen to a preacher. Jesus too, I believe, was sorely misunderstood and later, misrepresented. I don't buy a virgin birth, nor the raised from the dead story. If all religion did was teach the love that Jesus purportedly taught, that would be cool. But then they lumped fear fear fear................. I prefer to fear what is real (in my reality). PeaceOut, Jeans PS and if we are his most treasured creation, he is a pretty twisted sort..... A serious question, do you think he listens to us pray, and honestly what do you pray for? Have you ever prayed for a better job, or to not run out of gas when you are on empty, or world peace? (this is a serious question)~~We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly~~MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #323 July 9, 2008 QuoteA serious question, do you think he listens to us pray No, its been tested he failed Miserably. In fact Matthew 6:5-6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly So god tells us he will answer prayer, so hes either a lier, or most likely isnt there...----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 49 #324 July 9, 2008 Quote....there is love in fear...and you may or may not admit, that many fear love...but fearing love and finding love in fear still means that love takes fear. Well, that settles it then. Nobody can argue with that. Really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #325 July 9, 2008 QuoteIn general relativity, past and future observations are both possibilities. Please elaborate. How does general relativity allow observations into the future?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
