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SpeedRacer

Do atheists/agnostics believe in.....

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the Big Bang Theory of the origin of the Universe?

and if so, why?

(and if they do, do they believe that the Big Bang event had a cause, or did not have a cause?)


I'm going away for a few days & won't have access to the Internet, so I won't respond for awhile.
Speed Racer
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I'm going away for a few days & won't have access to the Internet, so I won't respond for awhile.



GREAT! Next time walk into your local biker bar and yell, "Hey! All you pussy bikers suck! I'd love to discuss it, but I'm going to be on the road for a few days. See ya!" ;)

Why in Hawkings name would you start this thread knowing you're going to bail?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Actually, knowing enough science helps me to understand how the universe works. Enough for me to grasp certain concepts like Doppler shift, the speed of light, trigonometry, spectrometry, radio wave propagation, light absorption . . .

The thing is, if you understand enough of this sort of thing you realize that you can look at the way things are now and extrapolate how certain things must have happened in the past just based on where things are in the observable universe.

It only follows that if you take two snapshots of a pond and see ripples in one and ripples further apart in the second that you can sort of infer that they originated at a certain point and how long ago that was. This isn't an exact model of the universe, but it does give you a bit of an idea.

So, yeah, I do believe in the Big Bang based on what the observable universe has evidence of.

Can I tell you what caused it or came before? Well, no. The way the Big Bang works, unfortunately, that is unknowable. In fact, the observable universe actually has a couple of issues when it comes to getting really, really close to the actual moment of the Big Bang because our current understanding of physics breaks down when you get very, very close to the actual moment itself. That's not to say "God" caused it, that is to say simply that we don't understand it yet.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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GREAT! Next time walk into your local biker bar and yell, "Hey! All you pussy bikers suck!



Well let's be honest: If they ride a Harley, they're gayer than a tree full of parrots. :D

But that is for another thread for another day. :P

.jim
"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC

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Can I tell you what caused it or came before? Well, no. The way the Big Bang works, unfortunately, that is unknowable. In fact, the observable universe actually has a couple of issues when it comes to getting really, really close to the actual moment of the Big Bang because our current understanding of physics breaks down when you get very, very close to the actual moment itself. That's not to say "God" caused it, that is to say simply that we don't understand it yet.

which is a form of faith-based reasoning.

it is important to understand that this gap in science is not due to the same thing as most other gaps in scientific knowledge. it is in fact a very fundamental, epistemological gap. ie, an event must have a cause.
Speed Racer
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And more importantly.... whose name do they scream when they orgasm? :P


I scream my own Name I'm THAT good:D:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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***

it is important to understand that this gap in science is not due to the same thing as most other gaps in scientific knowledge. it is in fact a very fundamental, epistemological gap. ie, an event must have a cause.


And this leads us straight into the Faith based approach of
"THE GOD OF THE GAPS" theory,
i.e. since our science base has YET to explain it based on our current understanding of physics.
IT MUST BE GOD.

Bollocks, not being able to explain it now, does not mean it will not be explained by physicics later
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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it is important to understand that this gap in science is not due to the same thing as most other gaps in scientific knowledge. it is in fact a very fundamental, epistemological gap. ie, an event must have a cause.



So, when the Greeks thought the gods threw down thunderbolts . . . they did . . . until Ben Franklin came around and pushed them out of existence?

Anyway, we're not saying it DIDN'T have a cause, just that we don't yet understand it.

My guess is that there are plenty of things you, personally, don't understand how they happen. That doesn't mean that "god" makes them happen. It just means YOU don't understand it.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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GREAT! Next time walk into your local biker bar and yell, "Hey! All you pussy bikers suck! I'd love to discuss it, but I'm going to be on the road for a few days. See ya!" Wink




:D:D:D:D good one!

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

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which is a form of faith-based reasoning

that doesn't cause a person to believe in God. It's kinda like they taught you in grade school when learning about sets and subsets. People who believe in God use faith-based reasoning, but not everyone who uses faith-based reasoning believes in God. :)

linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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And more importantly.... whose name do they scream when they orgasm? :P



"OH NOTHING!! NOTHING!! NOOOOTHIIIINNNNG!!!!":D:D:D


Hey, that ain't as bad as what Jesus screamed "Oh Dad! Oh Dad! OH MY FAAATTTHHHEEERRR!!!"

:D:D:D

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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People who believe in God use faith-based reasoning, but not everyone who uses faith-based reasoning believes in God. :)

linz



Hmmm. So faith based reasoning seems to be ingrained into a reasonable mind? So, why is it so unreasonable for some to believe in even the possiblity of a Wisdom that was here before mankind?
"We didn't start the fire"

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People who believe in God use faith-based reasoning, but not everyone who uses faith-based reasoning believes in God. :)

linz



Hmmm. So faith based reasoning seems to be ingrained into a reasonable mind? So, why is it so unreasonable for some to believe in even the possiblity of a Wisdom that was here before mankind?



Well, we could go another step on that sets and subsets lesson. People who use faith-based reasoning are a subset of people who reason.

:P
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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People who believe in God use faith-based reasoning, but not everyone who uses faith-based reasoning believes in God. :)

linz



Hmmm. So faith based reasoning seems to be ingrained into a reasonable mind?



I don't think that's what he said and I definitely believe you've made a false assumption there.

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So, why is it so unreasonable for some to believe in even the possiblity of a Wisdom that was here before mankind?



This question presumes a faulty premise.

In any case, it's not so much that it's not "possible", but there simply is no evidence for it whatsoever.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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but there simply is no evidence for it whatsoever.



See, this is what I dont understand. Do you need evidence to belieive? Dont you think its a little interesting that we posess the ability to progress without having evidence of something? Not only that, that it really isnt that unreasonable to do so?
"We didn't start the fire"

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Do you need evidence to belieive?

Some people do

Dont you think its a little interesting that we posess the ability to progress without having evidence of something?

Some people "wonder" about things before they believe them. Being reasoning people, they seek evidence around those things they wonder about. Based on the evidence, then, they come to believe or not....or somewhere in between (like the agnostic who really isn't sure).

:)
linz
--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

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the Big Bang Theory of the origin of the Universe?

and if so, why?

(and if they do, do they believe that the Big Bang event had a cause, or did not have a cause?)


I'm going away for a few days & won't have access to the Internet, so I won't respond for awhile.




Here's a tip to save us all a lot of time: If you want to know what atheists think about the big bang or the 2nd amendment or last tuesday weather, just look up the definition of atheist in a dictionary, it will tell you exactly what the official atheist line of thinking is on every subject in the entire history of subjects.

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See, this is what I dont understand. Do you need evidence to belieive?


Actually, yes. I am highly skeptical of anything without supporting evidence to back it up.

From the time I was a small child I quickly understood that there were many people in this world that would lie so they could gain power over others. The "lessons" start small.

Quote


You'd better watch out!
You'd better not cry!
You'd better not pout!
I'm telling you why,
Santa Claus is comin' to town.
He's making a list
and checking it twice.
He's going to find out who's naughty and nice.
Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town.

He sees when you are sleeping.
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good.
So be good for goodness sake!



Sorry, but when you find out that "Santa Clause" really doesn't know when you are sleeping or when you're awake and really isn't coming to town, that SHOULD be a huge wake up call to young minds to be skeptical that those in power use the idea of mythical beings to control behavior.

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Dont you think its a little interesting that we posess the ability to progress without having evidence of something? Not only that, that it really isnt that unreasonable to do so?



Actually, I think you're once again making assumptions based on a false premise.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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And more importantly.... whose name do they scream when they orgasm? :P


I scream my own Name I'm THAT good:D:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:


So, then you are normally the only one present at the time?:o

:P
Well in my mind i'm not alone;):D:D
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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