An Atheist Speaks

[Lindsey 0]

People have been using their intellect and senses to get it wrong for just about ever.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[pbwing 0]

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Yes, the underlying neuroscience is incredibly complex (10^11 neurons) and neuronal connections (synapses, 10^14 in a human brain) have to be formed at some point and synapses can/do reform (“plasticity”).

my cat's breath smells like cat food!!

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Truth? all I have read from you is ramblings of what you imagine to be true. You can ramble on all you want, but it doesn't make it any more valid. You have no evidence to back up anything you have written about. It's all based on your feelings. If you were born to muslim parents you would be saying the same things about Mohamed instead of Jesus.

Alright, in the spirit of freindship...It seems most of what you rebutte is due to what you have been taught on the imagination. So well talk a little about the imagination. Isnt the imagination what drove us to where we are today? So you and I both agree that imagination is very powerful right? So lets see if we can agree that imagination is fed on influence, inspiration, wonder, and possiblity? But, if you dont agree on that, then we disagree on what the imaginaiton is, I beleive the imagination is only as powerful as we allow it to be. Those who imagine with walls dont imagine much do they? Those who imagine without walls, imagine limitlessly and thiers is the power. Whether that power is used for good or evil, that is up to the influence or the inspiration??? Just a thought.

2nd. You are right in assuming that if I were born muslim I would be for muhammed right now, as it is a religion that works on opression, not truth. I am actually in the middle east right now actually
But to continue, As it is, God is the God of Abraham, the God of Muhammed, the God of Jesus, he is God, and God is spirit. Islam is based on the same God that Abrahams is, surely you knew that right? What Christians believe, is that what was written, the law of Moses, the same Law of Muhammed, was fulfilled and completely finished through Jesus on the cross therefore allowing those access to the life of righteousness through faith in the spirit and not through the law. The very spirit that was all throughout the old testament (Islam based) was not seen through those who lived without truth. this is where the hypocrites that Jesus spoke so adamantly against appeared. Islam and Judeaism are still under the law, where as those in Christ are under the spirit of grace. There is so much more to explain to you about this very subject, but still I like to focus on what is truth. And it seems you have more questions. I am very familiar with the new testement which is spirit, so feel free my freind to continue with all the questions you have. I myself desire to be humble and to embrace humility, kindness and gentle respect, so dont worry about what you say to me, its all in the spirit of freindship on this end
I hope I explained it well enough so that you can examine it a little more clearly from someone who understands the word (I say that as humbly as I can) I am sorry if all you read is ramblings, but maybe its beacause your really not listening??

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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People have been using their intellect and senses to get it wrong for just about ever.

Are you talking about getting truth wrong? Surely we all can agree that there is only one universal truth right? Whether or not we believe in the same one doesnt mean that the truth changes right? All I am saying is that I believe Jesus to be the truth, nothing I say will ever come close to the things he said! So forgive me for saying but if you disagree with this stuff, you are really disagreeing with Jesus. All Jesus wanted everyone to do was take hold of life and love one another deeply from the heart. I cant imagine that is getting everything wrong.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Truth? all I have read from you is ramblings of what you imagine to be true. You can ramble on all you want, but it doesn't make it any more valid. You have no evidence to back up anything you have written about. It's all based on your feelings. If you were born to muslim parents you would be saying the same things about Mohamed instead of Jesus.

Ok, I think I may see our difference. You believe that feelings are merely feelings and have little to know inspiration attached to them, correct? Yet both of us can agree that love feels good right, (if you dont have it, you mourn it, which means it felt good to you when you had it, so lets stay on track) so is love or goodness the feeling? And if goodness is the feeling of love, then what is love?

Faith is a genuine gift, it is not something you can find in this way. Nothing I say (as was said earlier) will give it to you, it is a gift given by the creator of our souls for repentance. It is the only way to salvation and if you want it someday, just knock and ask.

Of course everything is based on my feelings, but my feelings were inspired by the Gospel. God wants us to experience him with everything we have, our feelings, our minds, everything, this is a gift my freind, not a burden. He wants us to feel him in everything so much that he actually designed us to starve for him. It is clear that you havent starved yet, or maybe you have? Feeling the spirit is unlike any feeling I have felt, it is very powerful. Repent and become born again, pray for the Holy Spirit and you too will feel this power, or are you afraid that it might feel too good?

It is obvious that you may not ever see, that is a shame, but what is written usually is read by more than one person and the Gospel has a purpose, it saves, heals, loves and brings hope, it is Gods word and he is the one who scatters it and makes it fruitful. God bless freind, even if you dont believe

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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While I am not a very good/faithful Christian, my beliefs in God, Jesus and the Holy spirit has not hurt anyone.

Yours may not have, but your bretheren have killed millions in the name of the same superstition.

It's bullshit. It always has been, and always will be. If you want to look for a god, look within yourself. If you believe in an all seeing god, then I'd like to sell you defense for unicorns that uses a bag of magical shreiking peanuts.

I live my life by the pagan (or Wiccan) rede. It goes, and I quote....

"Be it harm none, do what thy wilt shalt be the whole law"

One sentence. Beats the fuck out of every other religious text ever written IMHO.

"Be it harm none, do what thy wilt"

that is what the satanic bible is based on completely. Its moral and rebellious at the same time, making it as deceptive as it is attractive, just be careful these two combined invite a wealth of demonic power, which is much more deceptive than you can even imagine. Those who do the absolute worst damage to others are those who believe they dont do any. And tell me, where does this rebellion stop? Who has the power? This type of thinking leads to one world domination, the very thing Jesus told us about 2000 yrs ago was going to come about before the end of the world.

And by the way, my bretheren never killed anyone, the killers were all imposters acting in Jesus' name but not living according to the spirit. All those who lived by the spirit were persucuted and ultimately martryd, they did not kill. And many more wars have been started by man acting in the name of man than in the name of God. Under communist, faccist, and totalitarian regimes or global domination. So what you have allowed to be your guide in the spirit not only is proven dangerous by history, but actually shows that your morals rest more firmly on Christianity than you think. But, there is no reason to take offense to any of this if you truly dont believe it. the spirit is meant to set us free, not to enslave us.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Yes, the underlying neuroscience is incredibly complex (10^11 neurons) and neuronal connections (synapses, 10^14 in a human brain) have to be formed at some point and synapses can/do reform (“plasticity”).

my cat's breath smells like cat food!!

this is too funny! Im with you on this one Pbwing...what?@!!! Sounds like code to me

"We didn't start the fire"

[TankBuster 0]

How does the athiest consensus explain the origin of life? Is it (albeit very simplistic): 5 billion years ago, there was no life. Then, a random combination of elements formed a self replicating molecule, which formed a minimal cell structure, which started the evolutionary chain? From what I've read, that seems to be science's best guess. I've read some dissertations on the low probabilities of that occurance, which vary wildly based on assumptions. In any case, it seems to be based on a very highly improbable random combination of elements/protiens under exactly the right conditions. I'm not saying it's not possible, just want to know if I have the basics. Any thoughts?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[nerdgirl 0]

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How does the athiest consensus explain the origin of life?

There’s no more of an “atheist consensus” than there is a “theist consensus.” There have been historically more creationism stories than individual religions.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[shropshire 0]

Just so. Cool answer

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TankBuster 0]

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There’s no more of an “atheist consensus” than ....

OK then gimme some of your individual views. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm seriously trying to understand the nature of thought among athiests here. If atheists rely on the human understanding of science to explain every occurance, there must be at least some general scientific direction.

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[jcd11235 0]

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How does the athiest consensus explain the origin of life? Is it (albeit very simplistic): 5 billion years ago, there was no life. Then, a random combination of elements formed a self replicating molecule, which formed a minimal cell structure, which started the evolutionary chain? From what I've read, that seems to be science's best guess. I've read some dissertations on the low probabilities of that occurance, which vary wildly based on assumptions. In any case, it seems to be based on a very highly improbable random combination of elements/protiens under exactly the right conditions. I'm not saying it's not possible, just want to know if I have the basics. Any thoughts?

The odds are irrelevant. If the odds had not been overcome, we would not be here to ask the questions.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[TankBuster 0]

So that's what I'm trying to figure out. We're here because of some random mixing of elements, however improbable, somewhere between 2.5 and 5 billion years ago?

The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

[nerdgirl 0]

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So that's what I'm trying to figure out. We're here because of some random mixing of elements, however improbable, somewhere between 2.5 and 5 billion years ago?

Processes that underly all physiological 'life' on Earth -- from viruses to trees to mammals -- occur because carbon is small and multi-valent.

Are you trying to build a teleological argument?

If you are sincerely interested in understanding evolutionary theory, I would suggest a fantastic resource, which was partially funded by your tax dollars through an independent agency created by President Lincoln: the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) updated booklet "Science, Evolution, and Creationism" released in January.

You may find particularly interesting Chapter 3 & some of the other sidebars (e.g., pp. 13-15) that includes comments by Pope John Paul II, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the Presbyterian General Assembly, and the Clergy Letter Project disputing the assertion that evolution is inherently in conflict with religious belief. I’m hearteded to see that minister at my church has signed.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[jcd11235 0]

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So that's what I'm trying to figure out. We're here because of some random mixing of elements, however improbable, somewhere between 2.5 and 5 billion years ago?

As we examine our existence as humans we should take into account cosmology's Anthropic Principle, which can be paraphrased, "We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to observe it."

More specifically:

The weak anthropic principle states that in a universe that is large or infinite in space and/or time, the conditions necessary for the development of intelligent life will be met only in certain regions that are limited in space and time. The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the conditions that are necessary for their existence. It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty.
-Stephen Hawking

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Shotgun 1]

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If atheists rely on the human understanding of science to explain every occurance . . .

They don't. Some may, but you're making a pretty big assumption to think that all atheists care much about science.

Personally, I find science fascinating, but it has little to do with my disbelief in god. And I certainly don't rely on science to explain every occurrence.

[Skyrad 0]

'There's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole'

and now we jnow why..... They're not welcome, at least not in US foxholes!

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr26/0,4670,ArmyAtheistSpeaks,00.html

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Processes that underly all physiological 'life' on Earth -- from viruses to trees to mammals -- occur because carbon is small and multi-valent.

Are you trying to build a teleological argument?

If you are sincerely interested in understanding evolutionary theory, I would suggest a fantastic resource, which was partially funded by your tax dollars through an independent agency created by President Lincoln: the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) updated booklet "Science, Evolution, and Creationism" released in January.

You may find particularly interesting Chapter 3 & some of the other sidebars (e.g., pp. 13-15) that includes comments by Pope John Paul II, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the Presbyterian General Assembly, and the Clergy Letter Project disputing the assertion that evolution is inherently in conflict with religious belief. I’m hearteded to see that minister at my church has signed.

VR/Marg

[maadmax 0]

I like the way you think, brother.

[Royd 0]

Faith has no logic? that is very interesting to me my freind especially coming from a skydiver!!! So when you jump out your not hoping that everything will work out for you? Thats all faith is my friend, you

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see the joy of your jump, jump, then you hope with possible death right at your door, and your hope is filled with that joy when you land. Is it not logical to believe that you will land when you jump out? I hope so, otherwise I would be sort of concerned! It is funny the things we can accomplish when we believe, but somehow the method of science isnt what brought me to the exit door is it? So it seems to me that belief and faith have all the power in the universe. It is after all mans mind that will destroy it. Something that goes against logic actually, why would we destroy our own habitat? Let me guess, thats Gods fault right? I would suggest before any of you jump again to at least read the Gospel, you have the choice to ignore it. But, I wouldnt want to lead you to the truth or anything!

First, it is our minds that give us the power right? I mean thats what science is all about. Those with faith choose to give that power back in exchange for true power, Logic may describe this as humbleness. Those who are humble and who submit to themselves not being the grandest thing on the earth are in a position to recieve the wisdom of the beginning, which if we understand correctly, is actually the wisdom of the end as well, as wisdom has revealled itself more and more. But if we know already that the wisdom of the beginning is the wisdom of the end, then why not just find the wisdom of the beginning? Its like that song simple man, and it is the very wisdom that Jesus came with. The wisdom that gives all live and all power to the beginning and the end. Those who choose faith feel it is logical to seek the power of the beginning which coincedentally is love. Had we stayed with that, the world would be grander, as it is, we had something working against this simple but powerful force all along. Call it the ego, call it evil. All man does is seek to prove everything and that is where our power is lost. Why do we spend all of our time and energy seeking to prove something anyway? Isnt life way way too short for that?

Another thing, this girl who loves to dis believe in God talks about finding Joy. Just a question for thinkers, but doesnt joy and hope combine? If she doesnt believe in God, how does she have hope for life after this life? Another thing, why do people think that desiring a righteous life and living it is so boring or un-rewarding? I lived full on in sin and it got me nothing but heartache in the end. A life that is driven by love is adaptable to anything and much more able to deal with disasters ect... This girl also said that she loves her family, but hasnt life shown us that in an instant we can lose that? Then where are we? Shouldnt we try to connect with loves source, be it in your brain (as it is with some of you) or in your heart, where it is for most of us? Jesus' message is I love you and I want you, and wouldnt it be wise to at least listen to the wisdom of those who adopt the wisdom of the ancients? We need to understand that nothing we do is new, where the excitement in life is for me at least is in knowing there truly is a God (Jesus says God is spirit) and knowing that the God of all things made feels it important enough to make sure I know that I am loved by him.

When you see a beautiful sunset, sunrise, or majestic scenery, you see beauty right? (The fluids are flowing in your brain for all you science people),. but nonetheless, you feel beauty, a powerful almost indescribable connection. That is God showing you how beautiful you are to him, that connection is very powerful and if you let it, can show you the greater things in this life.

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Step away from the communion wine.

[Royd 0]

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Processes that underly all physiological 'life' on Earth -- from viruses to trees to mammals -- occur because carbon is small and multi-valent.

Are you trying to build a teleological argument?

The problem with your vocabulary lessons is that I just can't seem to fit those words into everyday conversation.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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I like the way you think, brother.

Thank you brother, but I must continue to say that this is the wisdom of Jesus, not me, so that others may have a chance to believe that thoughts are inspired and therefore, though we recieve them, they are not from us. They were born from the very beginning to lead us back to the very beginning. Since Love is the glory of wisdom, then it takes love to find wisdom.

No one finds wisdom without love. Love is the greatest! I promise everyone, if they seek the love in Jesus, they will find the love that is from the very beginning bursting with power and light, and a heart that is full of love is a heart that is full of the life! Try not to let fear keep you from the light. Thank you for your comment and your heart.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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'There's no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole'

and now we jnow why..... They're not welcome, at least not in US foxholes!

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr26/0,4670,ArmyAtheistSpeaks,00.html

Thats too bad. I read most of the article and I am sure there are things like this happening all over. After 911 I think we saw Amercia and much of the world for that matter sort of re examine what they believe. Its a shame that they treated this guy differently, I dont recall Jesus treating those who hated him any differently, he just spoke the wisdom he had and that was enough for him to take the cross. He didnt condemn or judge anyone, in fact all he did was question their faith, not necessarily how they lived as much as how they treated one another, especially those outside of their faith. What happened to that man is the same thing that happened to Jesus, they rejected him and therefore, I think they missed the spirit of grace altogether. Grace is given BECAUSE of our faults and our sins, the problem with people who dont live by truth is that they think they themselves do not have sin, or dont sin ect... They failed to show the atheist grace, the very thing that was shown to them. A true Christian will speak the truth about himself, about his faults, about his sin, about his shortcomings not only to God but to others as well. Hypocrisy is a problem amongst people in general, but truth will expose the hypocrite eventually, and besides, God knows mans hearts, you cannot be truthful enough to him. The only way that grace has power in our hearts is by acknowledging the truth, that we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

Now what I have said might raise a flag in many Christians' lives, but I submit that those who do not believe that may not have the truth revealed to them as well. Generally it is the atheist that take well to these words and of course truth speaking Christians who do not hide their weaknesses. It is the self righteous and hypocritical ones that are the most dangerous, as they have forgotten how to see their very own faults and in doing so have fallen further away from the power of grace.

A humble and pure heart which acknowledges truth within will find the power in grace if they believe that Jesus came to save us from the lie. And truth has shown that this revelation and cleansing of the heart reveals a spirit of life through love that not only feels incredibly powerful but that keeps us on the path of goodness (which is righteousness). No one on the path of righteousness should lash out or condemn someone else for not finding the same path, it is not a burden, its a reward. What I feel is deep compassion for those who still cant see. I would never, nor would any true christian, oppress someone into the path of righteousness. One has to desire righteousness because they want it otherwise the path is fruitless.

The path is so much more than a desire to be sinless, which only Jesus was. It is to fill the heart with peace, understanding, hope, joy, comfort, beauty, pleasure, and so many other gifts that come with walking the path. Grace, Truth, and Perseverance is the only way. Without someone seeing from within themselves, it cannot be found through oppression, my goodness, I am sort of shocked at this actually.

The goal of faith my freinds is obvious. No one is trying to hide it and if they are living it, they wont have to hide it or even want to, its a gift, its a gift. The goal of faith is comfort, peace, understanding, hope, joy for this life, for this life, for this life, that is the goal and it is sought after until the very end of ones earthly life. You recieve power through insight, insight that rocks you right down to your very inner being and this insight brings you life to the fullest. Again, it is not a burden, it is a gift for those who desire truth. All those who desire truth will see their own evil and turn away from it, not because they feel like they have to, but because they want to. Oh so much to say...

Let me apologize to everyone for anyone who has come to you in the name of Jesus but has not shown you his spirit. We humbly speak the truth, especially if it is humiliating, becasue we know that the truth will free us through the grace given in Jesus. True Christians merely recognize their own evil, and darkness and desire to become more good. God gave us the forgiveness we needed to start our path of goodness, and this spirit of forgiveness is grace, mercy, and truth, to keep us on the right path by reminding us moment to moment it seems that good just feels better, lighter, easier. The path of course may not be easier at times, but the rewards found along the way sustain us. When we talk to non-believers we are only trying to share what is sacred, pure, and powerful in our own hearts. Its like when you talk to people about skydiving, some get it, some dont, but you still talk passionately about it when you feel the desire to share it with someone. The same is true about other peoples children, really no one cares right (usually anyway) but we speak about our children with deep conviction..

The spirit of the hypocrite operates in a lie he cannot see, or chooses not to see, in the attempt to empower his own ego. These are the people Jesus spoke against, not gentile atheists who havent heard his message. If Jesus were talking to you in these forums and you knew he was Jesus, I believe most of you would fall in love with him immediately. But as it is, you all speak against something you dont understand, you speak agains the greatest love, but, it is not truth keeping you from understanding, or maybe it is, but mostly it is seeing others walking and talking in the name of Jesus, who arent actually following his footsteps. You will know if someone is following in his footsteps or not by one very important quality of the spirit, Love. Again, sorry I wrote so much, but this is sort of important to me, at least that you understand what grace is and what Jesus stands for.

"We didn't start the fire"

[jakee 1,257]

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Sorry, I didnt get to see the video, but I also have a thought for you all. God is invisible, this is true, but what there are other things which are invisible as well but seem to completey run our lives. Desire, Inspiration, Hope, Love, just to name a few. Do I need evidence that those things are real or is it possible that I can just "feel it"?

So what?

Yes you feel emotions, but those emotions are generated by you. There is no independant power out there called love, or desire, or hope, just as there is no actual independant power called God.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

I think rynodigsmusic is living in fantasyland and is having trouble distinguishing it from reality!

Hey rynodigsmusic give my regards to Lalaland.