Why should you learn English if you immigrate to the US?

[masterrig 1]

Quote

>Then in his second post he doesn't know how to spell an english word?

?? That's pretty common, I've discovered. Most immigrants I know speak and write english far better than people who were born here.

Why is that? Is it because the immigrants who speak and write englis better than us, go to classes and learn our language properly? Is it a reflection on our school system in this country that schools are more absorbed in (like Texas) testing students and preparing them more for these 'mandated' tests rather than concentrating on giving our kids a good education? Is it just a pure desire to learn our language and be a part of our society?
Thanks.


Chuck

[mnealtx 0]

A combination of the three, I believe.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

Quote

>Then in his second post he doesn't know how to spell an english word?

?? That's pretty common, I've discovered. Most immigrants I know speak and write english far better than people who were born here.

Why is that? Is it because the immigrants who speak and write englis better than us, go to classes and learn our language properly? Is it a reflection on our school system in this country that schools are more absorbed in (like Texas) testing students and preparing them more for these 'mandated' tests rather than concentrating on giving our kids a good education? Is it just a pure desire to learn our language and be a part of our society?
Thanks.


Chuck

My theory is that people that are born here learn to understand and speak before they learn to write, so they learn a much more informal English. Then, when taught to write, they have to reconcile the English they know with what is considered correct.

An immigrant usually will learn reading/writing/speaking simultaneously or even learn reading/writing before the speaking part. Therefore the person pays more attention to the correct grammar structure and spelling.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Am I the only one that finds it really funny that the OP posts a thread about how immigrants should learn English. Then in his second post he doesn't know how to spell an english word?

Some words are just tricky. I even added the parentheses because I wasn't sure and I didn't want to just get up and go get the dictionary.

We mispell a word every now and then. What gets me is how immigrants fuck up the grammar of the English language. Granted, that's the hardest part for them to learn.

Then there's all the 'jive' and 'slang' and regional colloquialisms.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

Makes sense. I never really thought about it till now.


Chuck

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Am I the only one that finds it really funny that the OP posts a thread about how immigrants should learn English. Then in his second post he doesn't know how to spell an english word?

Some words are just tricky. I even added the parentheses because I wasn't sure and I didn't want to just get up and go get the dictionary.

We mispell a word every now and then. What gets me is how immigrants fuck up the grammar of the English language. Granted, that's the hardest part for them to learn.

Then there's all the 'jive' and 'slang' and regional colloquialisms.


Chuck

I also think that English is getting worse and worse in native speakers because of things like instant messenger and text messaging. people grow up always typing internet slang and not using the 'real' words and it becomes a habit.

[masterrig 1]

I think, there's a lot to that theory, come to think of it. I think too, what screws with people's heads is, the spelling of words in advertising. Like "Open all nite!" or "Lite (whatever)" and so-on.


Chuck

[DSE 3]

Quote

And the Lakota language is far from dead - at least in the Black Hills.

I'm not sure where you're getting that information, but it's not accurate. The median age for people speaking Lakota is 65 and rising. In 1993, it was 15%. Now it's less than 11%.
http://www.lakhota.org/html/loss.html
True, schools are now creating immersion programs, particularly Lakota and Dine (Navaho), but they're coming late. Even among the Dine', the language has suffered greater than 30% loss in a single generation. Montezuma Creek, Monument Valley, Round Rock, Rock Point, and other elementary level schools have periods in the day of Dine'-only speech, as does Rocky Boy in Montana, Pine Ridge, Lower Brule', Sisseton Point, and other school in Lakota/Dakota areas, but these are revival programs. Most kids just aren't interested.
Kinda like how you probably took Spanish in 6th grade, if you're not needing to use it every day, you probably only have a few words of the language. It's not the same as being fluent. At the end of the day, only Lakota/Dakota/Nakota and Dine will survive for much longer, simply because of numbers. Hopi and some of the Pueblo languages will continue in small, but very stable numbers, due to the way young children are raised in the Kiva, but it's such a small percentage, it's not worth mentioning on the whole.
At one time, there were more than 2600 identified languages and dialects in North America. Today, there are fewer than 500, and of those 500, fewer than 70 are spoken with regularity according to NCAI.
"Trying to keep a language alive" is admirable, but there is a significant difference between preserving a language and having it be prolifici within the culture. As an example, my mother doesn't speak English, all of my siblings speak both, and virtually none of my nieces and nephews speak anything but English. it's an extremely common scenario.

[shropshire 0]

English is also a tricky language to learn. Lots of arcane structure and inconsistent 'rules'. The language is in a constant state of flux and varies (often considerably) from location to location.... that is, inpart, why, it's so colourful and poetic.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

English is also a tricky language to learn. Lots of arcane structure and inconsistent 'rules'. The language is in a constant state of flux and varies (often considerably) from location to location.... that is, inpart, why, it's so colourful and poetic.

As someone that learned spanish first, learned english, then had to re-learn spanish, I have to say that learning English for Spanish speakers is easier than learning Spanish for English speakers. While there are a lot of complicated nuances of English, the basic speaking is much easier because of the lack of gender rules for nouns and conjugation.

I personally like English as a means of expression because it's very precise. I think Spanish is much more lyrical and poetic, but it's harder to just 'get to the point' about what you're talking about.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

I agree.

In Holland I took the following languages in High School:

English
Dutch
German
French
Latin
Greek
Spanish

English was by far the easiest language out of that group.

(Though obviously exposure to the language through TV, music and movies plays a role)

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

I agree.

In Holland I took the following languages in High School:

English
Dutch
German
French
Latin
Greek
Spanish

English was by far the easiest language out of that group.

(Though obviously exposure to the language through TV, music and movies plays a role)

Where do you rate Spanish in the list? I have been teaching myself that for a while now, and it has been difficult, but I know part of the problem is age.

. . =(_8^(1)

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

Quote

I agree.

In Holland I took the following languages in High School:

English
Dutch
German
French
Latin
Greek
Spanish

English was by far the easiest language out of that group.

(Though obviously exposure to the language through TV, music and movies plays a role)

Where do you rate Spanish in the list? I have been teaching myself that for a while now, and it has been difficult, but I know part of the problem is age.

I think the order that you learn makes a difference too. If you learn French, then Latin, then Spanish, learning spanish becomes much easier because the basic structure and some words carry over.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Spanish I took last, with the background in french and latin at the time I found it easier. However I think that had more to do with timing than anything else.

[billvon 2,400]

>English was by far the easiest language out of that group.

Of course there's Esperanto . . .

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Now there is a failed idea lol

I wonder how many people still speak that.

[billvon 2,400]

>There is a failed idea

Yep. Reminds me of communism - a great idea in theory, but . . .

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

>There is a failed idea

Yep. Reminds me of communism - a great idea in theory, but . . .

You know, I always wondered about that saying "communism works in theory" -- in reality, it's not a good theory because it's a theory for humans without taking into account human behaviors or nature.... just my opinion and complete sidetrack...

[skydyvr 0]

Quote

Of course there's Esperanto . . .

Is that where you just add an "o" to the end of every english sentence?

. . =(_8^(1)

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

Quote

Of course there's Esperanto . . .

Is that where you just add an "o" to the end of every english sentence?

No, thats Spanish!

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Hear Hear. If you're going to live in this country, learn the language. I'm tired of hearing press 2 for spanish. This is America damn it. Speak AMERICAN or go back where you came from. (American is our version of the Queens English.)

No such thing as American, just because you fuck up a language doesn't make it a new one.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[SkyDekker 1,123]

Quote

Of course there's Esperanto . . .

In trying to find out how many people still use Esperanto I found out that there are actually some native Esperanto speakers. Most notably amongst them is George Soros.

Also led me to Lojban and the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Some very interesting stuff.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Okay, add your own reasons!

To me, it’s a no-brainer. When living in the US, the ability to speak, write, and read English correlates to higher income. From a study published in 1999 that considered legalized aliens: “Earnings are higher by about 8% for men and 17% for women who are proficient in both speaking and reading English, compared to those lacking both skills.” (I had expected it to be larger.) Am doubtful that the situation has changed dramatically.

--- ---- --- ----- ---

Between 2001 & 2003, I travelled to Tokyo every few months for my company. In Tokyo in the summer, it got very smoggy. I came down with a nasty cold & cough. I don’t speak or read Japanese. I went down to the convenience store and tried to find cough drops. There were no Ludens or Halls. The clerk didn’t speak English (I wouldn’t expect him too), and my improvised sign language seemed to be more amusing/annoying to him. I didn’t want to end up with a “Preparation H for toothpaste”-esque moment.

In the end, I had one of my Japanese colleagues write out the Kanji on a piece of paper for me to show to the store clerk. It took a while to convey the idea, as “cough drops” is something of a colloquialism.

R/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Lastchance 0]

Alright, I had that one coming. I lived in England for 2 1/2 yrs so I became quite accustomed (sp) to the Queens English. I Lived in Finchingfield and Haverhill. I worked with a bloke who had been born and raised in that same area. But he seemed to roll the Cockney, Birmingham, Liverpool. and every other English accent all into one. Most of the time I could barely understand him. I'm alright. You alright?

I may be getting old but I got to see all the cool bands.

[kbordson 8]

When I was in South Dakota, my little sister (Big Brother/Big Sisters) was learning Lakota and she would tell me about the those classes. Now... as you said, there is a difference between taking one class in school and knowing the language. From the prespective that she gave me though, the language was being stressed. (which I thought was a good thing)