castro resigns

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Equality of opportunity, however, does not mean equality of results.

Agreed. However, unregulated markets can sometimes be counterproductive when it comes to providing freedom of opportunity. Just as we should be careful about which industries and markets we allow the government to regulate, we should be careful about which industries and markets we allow to be unregulated. Not all government intervention is bad, nor is it all good.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rwieder 0]

Quote

can we end sanctions now?

Why would we do that? Fidel probably freaking croaked. His brother, Raul is full fledged commie. He won't do anything but start more BS. Ya gotta remember that Cuba & S.A. are allies. Hugo Chavez is a PITA.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Steel 0]

Quote

Most people don't see a big difference between that and going to resort in DR Owned by the descendants of the Conquistadores and worked by mixed Spanish-Indios at the top and illegal black Haitians at the bottom.

Also just to be specific, most of the resorts in the DR are owned by The Spaniards who never left Spain, and they are worked by the local population of the DR which is mulatto 73%, white 16%, black 11% (according to the CIA world fact book).

I have been to these resorts and can tell you that the Mulatto population is probably more of an 80/20 percent black to white mixture. You can't really tell the difference between the pure black and those that are actually mixed. As for the Indiginous people, there really aren't any. Disease brought by the Europeans (the Spanish in this case) killed all of them, just like they did in Cuba and PR.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Royd 0]

Quote

because there's no need to hold an embargo against a country that we have essentially been in a "pride battle" with for the past 40 or so of those 50 years.

I do have to give it to Castro for being one stubborn, prideful dictator, who couldn't recognize that his vision of Utopia just wasn't working out the way he hoped and planned. Why shouldn't he pay the price for his stupidity?

You see, if capitalism were openly allowed there, that island would be turned into a tourist paradise.

The problem with that, from Castro's point of view, would be that it would prove him to be wrong, all along, and he's to full of pride to let that happen.

[Royd 0]

Quote

Can we put all the right wing cubans back on boats???

Kind of funny how liberals think that hardcore dictators are to die for. Sorry, that's all I could come up with.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

WTF do we want an island that for all practical purposes stopped developing in the 50's?

are we really that hard up for a beach hotel to drink in????

The BEST cigars?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

can we end sanctions now?

I would ask everyone coming off the boats...still in droves, just to touch US soil, so they can stay. I think they still don't like him, or Raul.

Castro's brother has been in a careful transition of power and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Can we put all the right wing cubans back on boats???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kind of funny how liberals think that hardcore dictators are to die for. Sorry, that's all I could come up with.

I thought MAYBE now.. they mnight have aq chance.. to fight for THEIR country...

[434 2]

I might just be wrong! But did¨nt Castro kick your ass, and CIA tried to kill him several times? Didnt USA boikott Cuba, and drove him in to comunism? He had no other choice to cooperate with Soviet union? Just asking?

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

Quote

A few things to note from this:

Yes the Island stopped developing in the 50's. But why? Is it really that difficult to see that it was the left wing ideology that destroyed this country.

What the fuck does a dictatorship have to do with left wing ideology?

Quote

The sanctions aren't going anywhere because people like me who know the history and actually care about Cuba

Quote

Can we end the sanctions? Hell no!

Well I guess we can rule out knowing its history or caring about it.

Quote

First off both the Castro's together with Che (Ernesto Guevara) have the blood of well over 100,000 in their hands

Fairly pious coming from someone who lives in a country that has killed millions

[Steel 0]

Quote

Quote

A few things to note from this:

Yes the Island stopped developing in the 50's. But why? Is it really that difficult to see that it was the left wing ideology that destroyed this country.

What the fuck does a dictatorship have to do with left wing ideology?

Quote

For most people its not so difficult to make he connection with his promotion of left wing ideology for everyone except himself. The again that is assuming common knowledge of maybe a 6th grade education. I appologize but I am not here to teach. But I will say for somebody who claims to be in education is so clueless about this topic is funny.

Quote

Can we end the sanctions? Hell no!

Well I guess we can rule out knowing its history or caring about it.

Quote

Yes you have made it perfectly clear from your first statement that we definately can't assume anybody know if the minimal history of the issue here.


First off both the Castro's together with Che (Ernesto Guevara) have the blood of well over 100,000 in their hands

Fairly pious coming from someone who lives in a country that has killed millions

This comment is so stupid that it does not even deserve a response. It is either coming from some Che tshirt wearing individual, who thinks he was a rock star or a Communist appologist, neither of which I think is worth educating. Both of which I am glad to hear is not living in the same country as me.

Cheers,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[Bmore_chrissy 0]

Quote

I do have to give it to Castro for being one stubborn, prideful dictator, who couldn't recognize that his vision of Utopia just wasn't working out the way he hoped and planned. Why shouldn't he pay the price for his stupidity?

The same reason American citizens shouldn't pay for GW's stupidity. The embargo doesn't hurt the Castro family - it hurts Cuban citizens as a whole.

I do understand that the US has a right to trade with whomever it wants, but the logic doesn't hold up anymore, and I don't think it's the place of the US to 'punish' Cubans. (Yeah, there's a little hypocrisy in that statement).

The only way to make Castro 'pay for his stupidity' would be to imprison or assassinate him, right? And well, the US government tried (600 or so times), and we see how well that worked out.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

What the fuck does a dictatorship have to do with left wing ideology?

Looking at history, um, absolutely everything. Find me a communist system that DIDN'T have a dictator.

Quote

Fairly pious coming from someone who lives in a country that has killed millions

Indeed. WE haven't had people killing hemselves to get out of the US since, well, for a while. Meanwhile, we have people killing themselves to try to get in here.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Quote

can we end sanctions now?

I would ask everyone coming off the boats...still in droves, just to touch US soil, so they can stay. I think they still don't like him, or Raul.

Why does that make Cuba such a special case? When it comes to China you won't even boycott the Olympics...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

Why shouldn't he pay the price for his stupidity?

If you made a list of everyone in Cuba and put it in order of who'd endured the most hardship because of US sanctions do you think Castro would be near the top or the bottom of the list?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

What the fuck does a dictatorship have to do with left wing ideology?

Well if you read Marx you will learn that democracy can only take you so far. The wants of the masses will lead to "Trade Unionism" but not to socialism. For that you need leadership from the vanguard. This leadership must be imposed upon the proletariat for their own good. Lennin knew that, so did Mao, so does Castro.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

can we end sanctions now?

I would ask everyone coming off the boats...still in droves, just to touch US soil, so they can stay. I think they still don't like him, or Raul.

Why does that make Cuba such a special case? When it comes to China you won't even boycott the Olympics...

It makes Cuba a special case because of its proximity to the US. The US also grants special privilege to refugees coming from Cuba. In the historical context of the Cold War, Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis provides a unique perspective.

As for China, the US didn't have diplomatic relations with them until the 1970s. I am part of that generation that will remember what must have been absolute horror in Tiananmen Square, 1989. If the rest of the world does not understand that Beijing will show only what they want to be seen, then shame on us all.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Steel 0]

Quote

I might just be wrong! But did¨nt Castro kick your ass, and CIA tried to kill him several times? Didnt USA boikott Cuba, and drove him in to comunism? He had no other choice to cooperate with Soviet union? Just asking?

Yeah for the most part you are wrong. Castro never "kicked the U.S. ass". He stole from a lot of American businesses, when he "Nationlized" a lot of their assests in Cuba. But to say tha he kicked the U.S.'s is a pretty far strecth.

Did the CIA try to kill him? OFcourse, as have many Cubans who are upset about their country being destroyed and their freinds and/or family having been brutally executed by him and his thugs over the last 5 decades.

Did they drive him into Communism? NOT, He was preaching that left wing ideology from day 1, only he would not admit to being a Communist until 20 or so months after having assumed control (through a forceful military style takeover ofcourse).

Had no chocie but to cooperate with the Soviet Union? Yeah thats a funny one. I guess you can say if you want to take free country and turn it into a leftist/Socialist/Communist country you are not going to get help from a Country that is promoting Freedom and Democracy, as the U.S always has. So turning to the other Super Power that was all about taking away freedom of the press and having the government control every aspect of peoples lives, made the most sense. If you want to ruin a country by turning it to Communism, the Soviet Union certainly was more likely to assist you than the U.S.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[jakee 1,257]

Quote

He was preaching that left wing ideology from day 1, only he would not admit to being a Communist until 20 or so months after having assumed control (through a forceful military style takeover ofcourse).

Um, how can someone be preaching a thing without admitting it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Steel 0]

Quote

Quote

He was preaching that left wing ideology from day 1, only he would not admit to being a Communist until 20 or so months after having assumed control (through a forceful military style takeover ofcourse).

Um, how can someone be preaching a thing without admitting it?

By saying things like, There are too many rich people here who don't really need all the money from those sugar plantations for themselves. I am going to take all there "excess uneeded money" and put it to better use feeding poor people.

The general ignorant population can buy into this crap, just as many are buying into it now, in the U.S., when Obama speaks. The difference is that the U.S. political system has more safe guards to avoid this leading to thousands of people being executed to further a cause of stealing assets from all businesses. (no matter how large or how small)

Most people already have these horrors associated with Communism, so by preaching the content, but denying the title, he was able to win over a few more idiots, before they started to see the effects of his madness.. By that time it was already much more difficult to overthrow him because he already so much more power.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

I am part of that generation that will remember what must have been absolute horror in Tiananmen Square, 1989. If the rest of the world does not understand that Beijing will show only what they want to be seen, then shame on us all.

Concur heartily.
I hope our generation keeps remembering.
That specific incident is unquestionably one that profoundly impacted and influenced my world view formatively too and my unrepentant support of democratic movements. I still remember staying up late watching the BBC reports coming back.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

The same reason American citizens shouldn't pay for GW's stupidity.

I have to respectfully disagree here. Whether one agrees with the legitimacy of Bush's election win in 2000 (or 2004) or not, the American people have not taken necessary steps to remove Bush from power. We are a representative republic, and like it or not (I fall firmly in the "not camp, personally) he is our president. We, as a nation, are responsible for his actions and his policies. For example, as misguided as the war in Iraq has been, we "broke" Iraq, and now it is our responsibility to help fix it. It doesn't matter who wins in November, that responsibility won't go away.

Back on topic, I don't believe that translates to the situation in Cuba, unless Cubans have been repeatedly voting for Castro in multi-candidate elections.

IMO, economic sanctions have harmed Cuba far more than Castro has. Why wasn't the US concerned about the dictator that Castro overthrew? The sanctions are a remnant of the Cold War, because CommunismIsBad™. It is ironic that the fight against communism has done more harm to the Cuban people than communism. Everyone involved would have been better off if Cuba's communist economy had been allowed to succeed or fail on its own merits.

Without sanctions, Cuba would have most likely adopted a hybrid socialist/capitalist economy by now, like China and other economically successful countries have. Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jakee 1,257]

So you think that Obama would execute thousands of people if it weren't for US checks and balances? You don't think there is any difference between having some socialist policies and having completely communist government?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[434 2]

Quote

Quote

I might just be wrong! But did¨nt Castro kick your ass, and CIA tried to kill him several times? Didnt USA boikott Cuba, and drove him in to comunism? He had no other choice to cooperate with Soviet union? Just asking?

Yeah for the most part you are wrong. Castro never "kicked the U.S. ass". He stole from a lot of American businesses, when he "Nationlized" a lot of their assests in Cuba. But to say tha he kicked the U.S.'s is a pretty far strecth.

Did the CIA try to kill him? OFcourse, as have many Cubans who are upset about their country being destroyed and their freinds and/or family having been brutally executed by him and his thugs over the last 5 decades.

Did they drive him into Communism? NOT, He was preaching that left wing ideology from day 1, only he would not admit to being a Communist until 20 or so months after having assumed control (through a forceful military style takeover ofcourse).

Had no chocie but to cooperate with the Soviet Union? Yeah thats a funny one. I guess you can say if you want to take free country and turn it into a leftist/Socialist/Communist country you are not going to get help from a Country that is promoting Freedom and Democracy, as the U.S always has. So turning to the other Super Power that was all about taking away freedom of the press and having the government control every aspect of peoples lives, made the most sense. If you want to ruin a country by turning it to Communism, the Soviet Union certainly was more likely to assist you than the U.S.

So USA let him steel American property?

Being a socialist is not the same as being a communist! It was the American ghost running your country where many of your country men was hunted and followed in fear of comunism. That brainwashing is still working! The history you have learned is different than we are thought here in Europe. USA tied all connections to Cuba, and threatening everybody who would have anything to do with Cuba! He had only one option left.

One day we will look back and realize capitalism was as bad as any other ideology because we are dealing with human beings!

[Steel 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Had no chocie but to cooperate with the Soviet Union? Yeah thats a funny one. I guess you can say if you want to take free country and turn it into a leftist/Socialist/Communist country you are not going to get help from a Country that is promoting Freedom and Democracy, as the U.S always has. So turning to the other Super Power that was all about taking away freedom of the press and having the government control every aspect of peoples lives, made the most sense. If you want to ruin a country by turning it to Communism, the Soviet Union certainly was more likely to assist you than the U.S.

So USA let him steel American property?
----------------------------------------
For the most part yes. I guess they could have sent their tanks in there and retrieved their stolen property. But they didn't. This I believe had to do with the fear of Soviet response, but the reality is that we don't know why, although, we do know that indeed Amercian assets were stolen.
========================


Being a socialist is not the same as being a communist!

It was the American ghost running your country where many of your country men was hunted and followed in fear of comunism. That brainwashing is still working! The history you have learned is different than we are thought here in Europe. USA tied all connections to Cuba, and threatening everybody who would have anything to do with Cuba! He had only one option left.
-------------------------------------------
From my perpective Socialiam and Communism is the same with regards to the parts that matter.
Technical very few things are exactly the same, for instance, no two people are exactly the same height. One person is taller, whether he is a foot taller or 1/1,000,000 of a foot taller the fact is that they won't be the same height. But at some point you draw the line on the significance of the difference and classify accordingly. For me the difference between Communism and Socialism is insignificant.

I find it humorous that you think this is due to brainwashing because indeed I believe the facts are quite the contrary. I recall as a very young student being in school and hearing the teacher say that true Communism was the fairest deal becaue everybody got the same, but that because of corruption, it would always turn out differently. As grammar school student, I listened to the teacher and analyzed it enough to find that I actually completely disagreed with what they were trying to brainwash me with. I thought why in the hell should a moron who dropped out of school and worked as a cashier at the local supermarket make the same money as somebody like my father who went to medical school and worked hard for his position. It didn't end there, I also couldn't/still can't stand when I heard/hear somebody say that athletes make to much money. I personally would never pleasantly sit through a baseball game, but have always believe that if the players are making millions, its because what they are doing is worth millions to somebody, and for that I am fine with it. I have always resented the class envy that leads to left wing ideology (socialism, Communism or liberalism).

Its true that we may be taught different history in the U.S. from Europe. But when your imediate family has personally witnesses executions of family and/or freinds, without any trial, for polticial reasons, then any history book denying this fact whether its written in Europe, the U.S. or Cuba is still about as valueable as toilet paper to you.
===============================


One day we will look back and realize capitalism was as bad as any other ideology because we are dealing with human beings!
--------------------------------------------------
This is an interesting take. I definately do not believe it because I see capitalism as clearly a more fair deal. But I do see that dealing with people for the most part means dealing with lies that people make up to make themselves feel better about their short comings, and that definately does bother me. But I guess that is another completely different topic.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

• Quote