Royd 0 #101 February 5, 2008 QuoteIt;s in the governemtns best interst to keep its people healthy and educated. anything else is all up to the people. I thought that it was in my best interest to keep myself healthy. Is the govt. going to provide me with a drill sargeant to get me off of my ass to go for a run or is someone going to hold my hand to be sure I eat a salad instead of a pizza? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #102 February 5, 2008 What I find especially stupid, is that Pop still skydives, and has a heart problem that he considers serious. So he cares about his own welfare, but does not give a shit whether or not he takes out a few of his fellow jumpers or spectators on his way to the Auger Inn. He should have his license revoked. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #103 February 5, 2008 QuoteHow do they kill each other without guns? I thought banning guns would end that sort of thing. Snowball fights. Also checking from behind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #104 February 6, 2008 we've talked abour california before and they have some good things going on there, but to be over all effective, most or all states should enact similar legislation. it would be great if that would happen and then the feds wouldn't need to get involved, but this is one area where i wouldn't mind the gov stepping in to set up bounaries if need be. do you happen to know what states already have similar laws and what states are considering it? i'm also curious why these changes aren't talked about much in the media. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #105 February 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteBecause two hours is better than eight, and the rooms arent filled with illigal mexicans. Is that the liberal coming out in you? No, its the Republican.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #106 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote Quote You've drawn your whole opinion on the American Healthcare System on just one ER visit? No just comapring my emergency room experiences in this country to the emergency room experiences in others. Went to Saint Michaels for dizziness nausea and chest pains (my boss insisted) and still had to wait for several hours. Maybe you have just had some outlier experiences here because I have not seen our system to be the utopia it is frequently made out to be. Oh by the way, if ever you are having chest pains and it is not a heart attack don't say anything because they overreact, want to hook you up to all kinds of shit and take a trillion tests My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #107 February 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteI am going back to Canada, where I never had to wait more than 2 hours to get FREE help. Do you need directions to find your way there? I will send you a buddy pass. Quoteget FREE help. I love how people say it is free. Who do you think is paying for it? It sounds like you dont care who is paying for it as long as it is not you. Yea, words from morons are like this until they need the help of some sort, then they magically become liberal. Pathetic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misaltas 0 #108 February 6, 2008 QuoteI think the government's primary responsibilities should be to feed the people, educate the people and provide healthcare for the people. That's one of the strangest things I've ever read. Education? By the constitution, sure. I kinda wish it was pushed down to the state level or lower. Can't understand what a national level dept of education does or why it's needed. Healthcare? Looking around the world, it seems to be very expensive, of questionable quality, and quite a mess whether or not a gov't provides it. Given that, and given how gov't runs big things, I think I'll take my chances with keeping myself healthy and paying for my own healthcare. Food? How does anyone honestly figure it's the gov't job to feed its people? QuotePretty much everything else is optional. And here we have the "optional" list: a. Public Works (roads, bridges, utility infrastructure) b. National defense c. Law enforcement and courts d. Public safety (fire, disaster response/recovery) e. Environmental protection f. Tax collection (someone's gotta pay for all of this gov't provided food, education, and healthcare, right?) g. ...probably a few more I could think of; point madeOhne Liebe sind wir nichts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #109 February 6, 2008 Quote You've drawn your whole opinion on the American Healthcare System on just one ER visit? Yea, really, I don;t have a problem with the American healthcare system. I do so because I am one of the 50 million who don't have insuance, so that's how I avoid having trouble with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #110 February 6, 2008 QuoteQuotewell that is where we disagree - I think the government's primary responsibilities should be to feed the people, educate the people and provide healthcare for the people. I do not agree with that. While I am a big fan of making education attainable for all income brackets since society benefits from it, I do not see how those things are a direct obligation of the government. I do feel the government has the responsibility to try to set the economy up so people have the best opportunity to do that for themselves. I like the idea of having social systems for those who are SOL but once you start looking at it as an entitlement you end up getting all kinds of abusers like up here in Canada. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #111 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote You've drawn your whole opinion on the American Healthcare System on just one ER visit? No just comapring my emergency room experiences in this country to the emergency room experiences in others. They don't wanna hear truth, they just want to wave US flags while wearing blinders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #112 February 6, 2008 Quote20 years ago, in Canada, my roomie slammed a door on my finger and broke it I went the the ER in Calgary late at night, waited 4 hours to see someone, got it xrayed and bandaged up and sent home Last week here in Zephyrhills, I sliced my finger open at 9pm, went to the ER at 10pm after surrendering to the fact that it was not going to stop bleeding. I waited 3.5 hours to see a doctor (1 doctor on with 25 people in the waiting room and 15 more in the treatment areas), who looked at me for literally 30 seconds and then asked the nurse to bandage me up. The difference? I pay $750/month right now for my health insurance in the USA and get lousy service. Not to mention the trip will cost me $200 out-of-pocket for deductibles as well. So would I rather pay higher taxes and get lousy service or pay through-the-mouth and get lousy service? AT least in Canada no one has to fight with the insurance company on top of being injured, nor do they have to deal with bills rolling in from 3-4 different companies that 'touch you' during an ER visit. The system in the USA ain't all it is cracked up to be - neither is Canada, but I will take the socialized system over the crap I have today...... And no, I do not have a 'selection' of other places to go at 10pm when I cut my finger open....... TK I'd love to go there, tying up some ends now. Which anus will be the first to write, "don't let the door....." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #113 February 6, 2008 Quote Others' healthcare is not my responsibility, nor should it ever be. Here, here; fuck my fellow countryman/woman. Can't figure out the violent crime rate here with that kind of social network Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #114 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote In this case this has nothing to do with free, or not free, having insurance, or not. 8 hour wait to see an emergency doctor on a Monday evening is simply rediculous! Yeah. I know. It's what happens when emergency room care is free for so many others. Got a sniffle? Under Federal Law, the emergency room has to perform an assessment of every swinging dick that comes in - regardless of the person's ability to pay. So, guess why so many people are there at the ER - they can't be turned away. People with nothing better to do can handle an 18 hour wait. Of course, the ER is rewarded by getting paid 30 cents on the dollar another 10 months later by Uncle Sam. This means more waits in the existing ERs, because so many of them shut down due to bankruptcy. I can't believe the nerve poor people have, you know, getting sick and injured and all. mean, these are privs, how dare they. And then some will call the R's Nazis; how do they get that? Shocking Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #115 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote In this case this has nothing to do with free, or not free, having insurance, or not. 8 hour wait to see an emergency doctor on a Monday evening is simply rediculous! Yeah. I know. It's what happens when emergency room care is free for so many others. Got a sniffle? Under Federal Law, the emergency room has to perform an assessment of every swinging dick that comes in - regardless of the person's ability to pay. So, guess why so many people are there at the ER - they can't be turned away. People with nothing better to do can handle an 18 hour wait. Of course, the ER is rewarded by getting paid 30 cents on the dollar another 10 months later by Uncle Sam. This means more waits in the existing ERs, because so many of them shut down due to bankruptcy. I call bullshit. I took my son to the ER awhile back w/ a 106 temp unconsious. The hospital said no insurance. SORRY. Rushed to the next hospital and they immediatly iced him down and told me a few more mins. he'd prolly be dead. (108') by then. I cut myself BAD a few yrs. ago. Had insurance. Bled all over the lobby for an hr. Asked for an ibuprophen. They said "sorry, this ain't Burger King". I took a cab home and stiched myself. Now. I've payed 50th thousand outta my check in the last 6 yrs. never used a dime. Went to the doc last yr. for a 50 yr. checkup. Guess what. I had been outta work for a few months. No fuckin insurance. Something has to change.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #116 February 6, 2008 Quotewell that is where we disagree - I think the government's primary responsibilities should be to feed the people, educate the people and provide healthcare for the people. Pretty much everything else is optional. the 'right to life' is in the constitution that you so stanchly uphold..... Anyone can have an accident, very few can afford the consequences of it..... TK The gov should encourage health and education, as well as friendly socializtion of its citizenry. Instead we encourage filthy rich habits which few get to enjoy at the cost of the poor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #117 February 6, 2008 QuoteDave, Amen on the billing situation. I have experienced exactly what you have described. If anything needs to be fixed it is the billing system. To the others: Our healthcare system is not perfect by any means; but I do believe it is still a damn good one. Yea, great for those with priv., sucks for those w/o. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lindsey 0 #118 February 6, 2008 Maybe this is the il-liberal coming out in me. I'm covering our ER tonight... Nurse just called me with one of our regulars. It's rare that I don't see her when I'm working. Talk about someone who abuses the system. Never pays a penny on her bill. The only reason I know that is because she tells me. I'll go see her....eventually. Probably when the nurse calls me to see somebody else. Now, pop, I wouldn't have made you wait. Would've tended to THAT problem quickly. But this chick will go complaining about how badly I suck and how she deserves something better, and I'm sure there will be people ready to jump on HER bandwagon, talking about how piss-poor healthcare is in the US. I'm probably wrong for it, but there always is th rest of the story.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #119 February 6, 2008 Quote The gov should encourage health and education, as well as friendly socializtion of its citizenry. Instead we encourage filthy rich habits which few get to enjoy at the cost of the poor. So you would have us all waxing eloquent about how wonderful it is not to have a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out of?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #120 February 6, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Say what you want about the Canadian system, and sure, Canadians gripe about it too, but NO ONE in Canada would give it up for a privatized system...... And if people tried it here it would be here to stay, that's what worries the NAzis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #121 February 6, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>So let's say I don't have insurance and have a heart attack. I need a bypass operation. I look for an insurance carrier to pay for it. They'd say, "SEE YA!" just like a car insurer would - and for damned good reason. What god damned planet are you from? Oh yea, that's right, you're a lawyer, now I understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #122 February 6, 2008 QuoteA friend of the family is being buried this week. He had surgery last Friday. Came out of the operating room OK, spoke to his family in the recovery room, then died. The autopsy revealed severe internal bleeding from a small artery that had been cut but not fixed, and two sponges left in his abdomen. So first weget raped in the billing, then killed in the OR? Fuck this trashy country, what a joke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #123 February 6, 2008 QuoteI took my son to the ER awhile back w/ a 106 temp unconsious. The hospital said no insurance. SORRY. Google "EMTALA" The hospital shouldn't have done that - if it was accepting medicare. Quotecut myself BAD a few yrs. ago. Had insurance. Bled all over the lobby for an hr. Asked for an ibuprophen. They said "sorry, this ain't Burger King". So you were triaged and told to wait. With regard to Ibuprofen, you can have my profession to thank for why they wouldn't give it to you. QuoteWent to the doc last yr. for a 50 yr. checkup. Guess what. I had been outta work for a few months. No fuckin insurance. Did you pay cash for it? Or was it not worth your money to pay for it? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #124 February 6, 2008 Quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>So let's say I don't have insurance and have a heart attack. I need a bypass operation. I look for an insurance carrier to pay for it. They'd say, "SEE YA!" just like a car insurer would - and for damned good reason. What god damned planet are you from? Oh yea, that's right, you're a lawyer, now I understand. Wait. So are you telling me insurance would pay for pre0existing conditions? That is called "moral hazard" in insurance law. It'd be like you getting a couple of million in life insurance on me. You can't because of the moral hazard associated with it. You have no insurable interest in me, and what's to stop you from killing me? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #125 February 6, 2008 QuoteHow do they kill each other without guns? I thought banning guns would end that sort of thing. Pay attention to what richards wrote, instead of making up your own version of Canadian laws.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. 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Lucky... 0 #111 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote You've drawn your whole opinion on the American Healthcare System on just one ER visit? No just comapring my emergency room experiences in this country to the emergency room experiences in others. They don't wanna hear truth, they just want to wave US flags while wearing blinders. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #112 February 6, 2008 Quote20 years ago, in Canada, my roomie slammed a door on my finger and broke it I went the the ER in Calgary late at night, waited 4 hours to see someone, got it xrayed and bandaged up and sent home Last week here in Zephyrhills, I sliced my finger open at 9pm, went to the ER at 10pm after surrendering to the fact that it was not going to stop bleeding. I waited 3.5 hours to see a doctor (1 doctor on with 25 people in the waiting room and 15 more in the treatment areas), who looked at me for literally 30 seconds and then asked the nurse to bandage me up. The difference? I pay $750/month right now for my health insurance in the USA and get lousy service. Not to mention the trip will cost me $200 out-of-pocket for deductibles as well. So would I rather pay higher taxes and get lousy service or pay through-the-mouth and get lousy service? AT least in Canada no one has to fight with the insurance company on top of being injured, nor do they have to deal with bills rolling in from 3-4 different companies that 'touch you' during an ER visit. The system in the USA ain't all it is cracked up to be - neither is Canada, but I will take the socialized system over the crap I have today...... And no, I do not have a 'selection' of other places to go at 10pm when I cut my finger open....... TK I'd love to go there, tying up some ends now. Which anus will be the first to write, "don't let the door....." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #113 February 6, 2008 Quote Others' healthcare is not my responsibility, nor should it ever be. Here, here; fuck my fellow countryman/woman. Can't figure out the violent crime rate here with that kind of social network Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #114 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote In this case this has nothing to do with free, or not free, having insurance, or not. 8 hour wait to see an emergency doctor on a Monday evening is simply rediculous! Yeah. I know. It's what happens when emergency room care is free for so many others. Got a sniffle? Under Federal Law, the emergency room has to perform an assessment of every swinging dick that comes in - regardless of the person's ability to pay. So, guess why so many people are there at the ER - they can't be turned away. People with nothing better to do can handle an 18 hour wait. Of course, the ER is rewarded by getting paid 30 cents on the dollar another 10 months later by Uncle Sam. This means more waits in the existing ERs, because so many of them shut down due to bankruptcy. I can't believe the nerve poor people have, you know, getting sick and injured and all. mean, these are privs, how dare they. And then some will call the R's Nazis; how do they get that? Shocking Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #115 February 6, 2008 Quote Quote In this case this has nothing to do with free, or not free, having insurance, or not. 8 hour wait to see an emergency doctor on a Monday evening is simply rediculous! Yeah. I know. It's what happens when emergency room care is free for so many others. Got a sniffle? Under Federal Law, the emergency room has to perform an assessment of every swinging dick that comes in - regardless of the person's ability to pay. So, guess why so many people are there at the ER - they can't be turned away. People with nothing better to do can handle an 18 hour wait. Of course, the ER is rewarded by getting paid 30 cents on the dollar another 10 months later by Uncle Sam. This means more waits in the existing ERs, because so many of them shut down due to bankruptcy. I call bullshit. I took my son to the ER awhile back w/ a 106 temp unconsious. The hospital said no insurance. SORRY. Rushed to the next hospital and they immediatly iced him down and told me a few more mins. he'd prolly be dead. (108') by then. I cut myself BAD a few yrs. ago. Had insurance. Bled all over the lobby for an hr. Asked for an ibuprophen. They said "sorry, this ain't Burger King". I took a cab home and stiched myself. Now. I've payed 50th thousand outta my check in the last 6 yrs. never used a dime. Went to the doc last yr. for a 50 yr. checkup. Guess what. I had been outta work for a few months. No fuckin insurance. Something has to change.I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #116 February 6, 2008 Quotewell that is where we disagree - I think the government's primary responsibilities should be to feed the people, educate the people and provide healthcare for the people. Pretty much everything else is optional. the 'right to life' is in the constitution that you so stanchly uphold..... Anyone can have an accident, very few can afford the consequences of it..... TK The gov should encourage health and education, as well as friendly socializtion of its citizenry. Instead we encourage filthy rich habits which few get to enjoy at the cost of the poor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #117 February 6, 2008 QuoteDave, Amen on the billing situation. I have experienced exactly what you have described. If anything needs to be fixed it is the billing system. To the others: Our healthcare system is not perfect by any means; but I do believe it is still a damn good one. Yea, great for those with priv., sucks for those w/o. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #118 February 6, 2008 Maybe this is the il-liberal coming out in me. I'm covering our ER tonight... Nurse just called me with one of our regulars. It's rare that I don't see her when I'm working. Talk about someone who abuses the system. Never pays a penny on her bill. The only reason I know that is because she tells me. I'll go see her....eventually. Probably when the nurse calls me to see somebody else. Now, pop, I wouldn't have made you wait. Would've tended to THAT problem quickly. But this chick will go complaining about how badly I suck and how she deserves something better, and I'm sure there will be people ready to jump on HER bandwagon, talking about how piss-poor healthcare is in the US. I'm probably wrong for it, but there always is th rest of the story.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #119 February 6, 2008 Quote The gov should encourage health and education, as well as friendly socializtion of its citizenry. Instead we encourage filthy rich habits which few get to enjoy at the cost of the poor. So you would have us all waxing eloquent about how wonderful it is not to have a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out of?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #120 February 6, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>Say what you want about the Canadian system, and sure, Canadians gripe about it too, but NO ONE in Canada would give it up for a privatized system...... And if people tried it here it would be here to stay, that's what worries the NAzis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #121 February 6, 2008 >>>>>>>>>>>>>So let's say I don't have insurance and have a heart attack. I need a bypass operation. I look for an insurance carrier to pay for it. They'd say, "SEE YA!" just like a car insurer would - and for damned good reason. What god damned planet are you from? Oh yea, that's right, you're a lawyer, now I understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #122 February 6, 2008 QuoteA friend of the family is being buried this week. He had surgery last Friday. Came out of the operating room OK, spoke to his family in the recovery room, then died. The autopsy revealed severe internal bleeding from a small artery that had been cut but not fixed, and two sponges left in his abdomen. So first weget raped in the billing, then killed in the OR? Fuck this trashy country, what a joke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #123 February 6, 2008 QuoteI took my son to the ER awhile back w/ a 106 temp unconsious. The hospital said no insurance. SORRY. Google "EMTALA" The hospital shouldn't have done that - if it was accepting medicare. Quotecut myself BAD a few yrs. ago. Had insurance. Bled all over the lobby for an hr. Asked for an ibuprophen. They said "sorry, this ain't Burger King". So you were triaged and told to wait. With regard to Ibuprofen, you can have my profession to thank for why they wouldn't give it to you. QuoteWent to the doc last yr. for a 50 yr. checkup. Guess what. I had been outta work for a few months. No fuckin insurance. Did you pay cash for it? Or was it not worth your money to pay for it? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #124 February 6, 2008 Quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>So let's say I don't have insurance and have a heart attack. I need a bypass operation. I look for an insurance carrier to pay for it. They'd say, "SEE YA!" just like a car insurer would - and for damned good reason. What god damned planet are you from? Oh yea, that's right, you're a lawyer, now I understand. Wait. So are you telling me insurance would pay for pre0existing conditions? That is called "moral hazard" in insurance law. It'd be like you getting a couple of million in life insurance on me. You can't because of the moral hazard associated with it. You have no insurable interest in me, and what's to stop you from killing me? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #125 February 6, 2008 QuoteHow do they kill each other without guns? I thought banning guns would end that sort of thing. Pay attention to what richards wrote, instead of making up your own version of Canadian laws.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
