Stop Shoving Christianity Down My Throat

[pirana 0]

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Scientists may well be religious, but it beats me how they can claim to have both methodologies engaged at the same time.

Depends on the flavor of their religion, the flavor of their science, and how they apply each.

I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Heinz 57 and french fried potato
Big dill pickle and a cold draft beer

Days like this (wind chill below 0) remind me of the Caribean, and that I am not there.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[jpjc2000 0]

How in Gods name-(pun intended) would you know if "atheists" are giving a helping hand, I don't see many running around trying to convert or looking for praise. A guess-(and that's ALL it is...a guess) is atheists do good deeds for the sake of doing a good deed, not for a longer term reward of everlasting life in bliss.

[maadmax 0]

I think this statement is absurd. Replace the word god with the phrase "invisible (to any form of human perception) dragon in my living room" in your statment and hopefully you will see. The beliver in the invisble dragon does have faith,the non believer does not require faith it merely requires lack of evidence. Same with god. I believe in things based upon the evidence for them, no evidence= no belief. Not believing should not then be treated equally as believing.

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Your statement is nonsensical. No one is talking about an invisible anything. That analogy is not relevant. The visible proof for God goes back through the ages of our species self awareness.
God has always been apart of our self-consciousness in one way or another. Many have used their awareness and knowledge of God for great good. Others of us have taken something wonderful and turned it into great evil. The ignorant do not nullify the Truth.


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[peregrinerose 0]

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I don't see atheists making great efforts to lift up the downtrodden.

So my participation with Lions Club doesn't count? How about my volunteer position on the board of directors of the local blind association? The years of volunteer work I've done at the hospital? The 7 animals all adopted from rescue organizations in my house? The fact that I'm starting proceedings to adopt 2 kids out of the foster care system? The 50 or so free eye exams I do every year for people I know can't pay for it? Or the free glasses that I pay for out of my pocket for those same people? Or the $100 gift card I gave to a cashier at a local Turkey Hill because life hit her really hard financially lately? None of that counts because it's not flaunted in your face every day.

Your statement really pissed me off. I do my best every day to make the world around me a little bit nicer place to be. Just because I do it silently doesn't mean I don't do it. And most of my athiest/agnostic friends are just as active as I am in truly trying to help the wolrd be a better place.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[pirana 0]

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How in Gods name-(pun intended) would you know if "atheists" are giving a helping hand, I don't see many running around trying to convert or looking for praise. A guess-(and that's ALL it is...a guess) is atheists do good deeds for the sake of doing a good deed, not for a longer term reward of everlasting life in bliss.

I just do good deeds for the here-and-now bliss.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Royd 0]

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How in Gods name-(pun intended) would you know if "atheists" are giving a helping hand, I don't see many running around trying to convert or looking for praise. A guess-(and that's ALL it is...a guess) is atheists do good deeds for the sake of doing a good deed, not for a longer term reward of everlasting life in bliss.

As much as atheists stomp and shout about Christians trying to shove religion down their throats, if they actually were helping the 'Less Fortunate' as a group, they wouldn't be silent about it.

[jpjc2000 0]

As much as atheists stomp and shout about Christians trying to shove religion down their throats, if they actually were helping the 'Less Fortunate' as a group, they wouldn't be silent about it.
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When did you steal a copy of our atheist manual...if you read to much of it, you might turn to stone...yikes!

[Royd 0]

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I don't see atheists making great efforts to lift up the downtrodden.

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So my participation with Lions Club doesn't count? How about my volunteer position on the board of directors of the local blind association? The years of volunteer work I've done at the hospital? The 7 animals all adopted from rescue organizations in my house? The fact that I'm starting proceedings to adopt 2 kids out of the foster care system? The 50 or so free eye exams I do every year for people I know can't pay for it? Or the free glasses that I pay for out of my pocket for those same people? Or the $100 gift card I gave to a cashier at a local Turkey Hill because life hit her really hard financially lately? None of that counts because it's not flaunted in your face every day.

Your statement really pissed me off. I do my best every day to make the world around me a little bit nicer place to be. Just because I do it silently doesn't mean I don't do it. And most of my athiest/agnostic friends are just as active as I am in truly trying to help the wolrd be a better place.

Well, you've tooted your horn today.

[peregrinerose 0]

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Well, you've tooted your horn today.

On here, to possibly give you something to think about. Do you really think I went out and did all that to make one stupid post on dropzone.com??? Hardly.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[jakee 1,279]

Par for the course in Royd-world.

If you don't tell him about it then you can't be doing it - if you do tell him about it you must be a self centred ego freak!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Muenkel 0]

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I think this statement is absurd. Replace the word god with the phrase "invisible (to any form of human perception) dragon in my living room" in your statment and hopefully you will see. The beliver in the invisble dragon does have faith,the non believer does not require faith it merely requires lack of evidence. Same with god. I believe in things based upon the evidence for them, no evidence= no belief. Not believing should not then be treated equally as believing.

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Your statement is nonsensical. No one is talking about an invisible anything. That analogy is not relevant. The visible proof for God goes back through the ages of our species self awareness.
God has always been apart of our self-consciousness in one way or another. Many have used their awareness and knowledge of God for great good. Others of us have taken something wonderful and turned it into great evil. The ignorant do not nullify the Truth.

Thanks maadmax. You saved me a reply to a ridiculous analogy.

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Chris

[mnealtx 0]

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A guess-(and that's ALL it is...a guess) is atheists do good deeds for the sake of doing a good deed, not for a longer term reward of everlasting life in bliss.

So you should easily be able to name some atheist organizations that operate in the local community like the Salvation Army does, then...right?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jakee 1,279]

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Your statement is nonsensical. No one is talking about an invisible anything. That analogy is not relevant.

Yes it is. Show me a picture of what god looks like.

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The visible proof for God goes back through the ages of our species self awareness.

What does that even mean? What 'visible proof'?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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Par for the course in Royd-world.

If you don't tell him about it then you can't be doing it - if you do tell him about it you must be a self centred ego freak!

Here in Royd-world[Thanks, I like that, and think I'll keep it, with your permission.] I see all kinds of organizations based around philosopies or things.

I just joined a local BMWMOA because I'm proud of my new R1200GSA [Yea, I'm bragging] and it gives me an opportunity to go on group rides with others of like mind. Totallly selfish, I know, but hey, it's a lot of fun.
We meet at the local VFW club.
We have flower clubs.
We have gardening clubs.
We have Civil War Reenactment clubs.
We even have some silly ass Renaissance Fairs.
We have civic organizations of like minded people.

It seems that atheists, in their superior intellectalism, would have come together proudly, to present their solution to solve the world's problems.

[jakee 1,279]

Nice bike.

Now here's an interesting thought for you. Atheists are not drawn together within a common organisation, or driven by a common purpose. Atheism isn't a higher calling or inspiration, and people don't tend to quote atheism as a motivation for doing anything.

The overwhelming majority of the time, if an atheist starts a charity, he doesn't start an atheist charity, just a charity.

When an atheist comes up with a great idea to combat (insert global problem here), it's not marketed as an atheist solution to X, just as a solution to X.

Just because there aren't people out there trumpeting that they, "as an atheist", are helping people does not mean that atheists are not out there helping people.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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Nice bike.

Thanks, I'm truly enjoying it.

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Now here's an interesting thought for you. Atheists are not drawn together within a common organisation, or driven by a common purpose. Atheism isn't a higher calling or inspiration, and people don't tend to quote atheism as a motivation for doing anything.

I believe that they called it the USSR. There are a couple of others. Red China and North Korea.
The USSR failed, Korea is a miserable failure. All hope for a better life has been taken away.

China has started to get a grasp on the fact that people need something more to look forward to than a miserable day to day existance. Enter capitalism, and thus, the opportunity for people to seek their own level of being. The human spirit seeks a little bit higher form of existance than a dog or a snake, thus separating us by some unknown factor. Just because we can't put it in a bottle and examine it in a lab, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Altruism, for its own sake, makes as much sense to the logical mind as the concept of God does.
If I buy lunch for the crew that is pouring a slab for me, I appear to have been generous, but I really just want to get a little bit more, or better work out of them.
Unless I am compelled by some strange, unseen force,[let's call it compassion] I'm not just going to buy lunch for 10 guys pouring a slab somewhere.
There are acts that defy logic; bravery, compassion, laying your life down for another, that cannot be explained.
If you accept this premise, then you have to accept the idea that there may be something much larger than us that keeps us going in the right direction.

[jakee 1,279]

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I believe that they called it the USSR. There are a couple of others. Red China and North Korea.
The USSR failed, Korea is a miserable failure. All hope for a better life has been taken away.

The USSR was a political philosophy of which state atheism was but a very small part.

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China has started to get a grasp on the fact that people need something more to look forward to than a miserable day to day existance. Enter capitalism, and thus, the opportunity for people to seek their own level of being. The human spirit seeks a little bit higher form of existance than a dog or a snake, thus separating us by some unknown factor. Just because we can't put it in a bottle and examine it in a lab, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Capitalism = God?

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Altruism, for its own sake, makes as much sense to the logical mind as the concept of God does.

That's where you're wrong. Coniderable research has been done on the evolutionary benefits of altruism, and has revealed many patterns of altruistic behaviour in all kinds of social animals that can materially benefit the group as a whole and also the altruistic individual in particular. Plus, of course, we are intelligent beings with the ability to make all kinds of decisions which don't neccesarily make sense.

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There are acts that defy logic; bravery, compassion, laying your life down for another, that cannot be explained.
If you accept this premise, then you have to accept the idea that there may be something much larger than us that keeps us going in the right direction.

No. As I said, there is no rule that means human beings have to behave logically. We do all kinds of nonsensical things. On another note, I happen to believe that human beings have the capability to make decisions of great bravery and compassion without having to be pushed by some higher force - you, apparently, do not. How pessimistic!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

By doctrine all communists are atheist; this does not mean that all atheists are communist. By doctrine Fascists are Christian; does this mean all Christians are fascist?

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There are acts that defy logic; bravery, compassion, laying your life down for another, that cannot be explained.
If you accept this premise, then you have to accept the idea that there may be something much larger than us that keeps us going in the right direction.

Sacrificing yourself for the group is evidence that there is something larger than yourself upon which you place higher value than yourself; that something is the group. There is no evidence whatsoever of anything larger than the group. Consider the Hell's Angels. If a member takes one for the gang, is this evidence of God? I hardly think so. I think it is evidence that the member places a high value upon the gang (or more likely the chapter).

[jakee 1,279]

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Sacrificing yourself for the group is evidence that there is something larger than yourself upon which you place higher value than yourself; that something is the group. There is no evidence whatsoever of anything larger than the group. Consider the Hell's Angels. If a member takes one for the gang, is this evidence of God? I hardly think so. I think it is evidence that the member places a high value upon the gang (or more likely the chapter).

A very good point that bears repeating.

For every American soldier who heroically gave his life for his buddies or his principles in WW2 there is an equally 'heroic' Nazi. How can both their actions be guided by God?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[maadmax 0]

-Yes it is. Show me a picture of what god looks like.

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You will never understand God if you keep trying to cling to your physical senses for perception. God choses to exist as a nonphysical Spirit and can only be understood through spiritual means.

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--The visible proof for God goes back through the ages of our species self awareness.

[jakee 1,279]

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You will never understand God if you keep trying to cling to your physical senses for perception. God choses to exist as a nonphysical Spirit and can only be understood through spiritual means.

You reinforce my point. 'God' is invisible!

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The visible proof is the history of mankind as far back as we have archaeololgical evidence. Humans have always sought out God

Proof that people do and have believed in God is in absolutely no way proof of God. The only thing it is proof of is that people do and have believed in God. That's it, nothing more.

Similarly (hypothetically speaking) if, in the early stages of human evolution, common belief in God conveyed some kind of survival benefit it would still not in any way be evidence that God exists, just that common belief conveyed some form of survival benefit.

And the 'holy scriptures' comment is simply insulting to science, and indicates a massive lack of understanding of the subject.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[skydyvr 0]

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Show me a picture of what god looks like.

All you had to do was ask . . .

. . =(_8^(1)

[freethefly 6]

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I don't see atheists making great efforts to lift up the downtrodden.

Secular charity is everywhere. Secular groups do a great deal of work around the world and even in your own hometown. Unlike religous charities, they do not do the work to garner points from a "God" to someday trade in for admission to some kind of invisible kingdom in the sky but, because it is the right thing to do. They focus soley on the work and not on converting the "heathens".

Here are but a few (there are a great number more);

http://www.hollows.org/

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=SHARE

http://www.secondharvest.org/

http://www.toysfortots.org/

http://www.habitat.org/

http://www.nature.org/

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/index.htm

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/home/index.asp

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://www.rethink.org/

http://www.amfar.org/cgi-bin/iowa/index.html

http://www.heifer.org/

http://www.mamaskitchen.org/

http://www.foodoutreach.org/home.html

[url]

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[maadmax 0]

--You reinforce my point. 'God' is invisible!


Electromagnetic radiation is also invisible but is still
exists. Are you trying to say that invisibility equals "non-existence" ?

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-Proof that people do and have believed in God is in absolutely no way proof of God. The only thing it is proof of is that people do and have believed in God. That's it, nothing more.

Disagree, it is definitely proof of some type of conveyed advantage to survivability and reproductive success. There has to be something there or the whole experience would have disappeared long ago.

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--Similarly (hypothetically speaking) if, in the early stages of human evolution, common belief in God conveyed some kind of survival benefit it would still not in any way be evidence that God exists, just that common belief conveyed some form of survival benefit.

I am not sure what you mean by "early stages"
Gods presence is still very much apart of the human experience.

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--And the 'holy scriptures' comment is simply insulting to science, and indicates a massive lack of understanding of the subject .

O come on, I agree it was not very professional, but surely not insulting.


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[popsjumper 2]

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...How is this any different than a barly clothed woman selling Black Velvet?

My idea of heaven IS a barely clad young lady and a bottle of Velvet.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239