John Edwards: "Give up your SUV's"

[SpeedRacer 1]

people really kinda go overboard with focusing on SUVs.

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[lawrocket 3]

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So when some bitch taking the kids to school talking on her mobile phone runs a red light and has a side impact with another vehicle smashing the upper half of the innocent parties vehicle only to get out unscathed I get the hump.

Yep. So I try to even my odds and be at bumper level. Some bitch tries doing that in her Z3, I'd prefer that she go under me as opposed to through me.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shropshire 0]

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Anyone who drive a vehicle that only returns 15 miles per American gallon needs their head examining.

My Freelander returns around 37 - 40 miles per Real gallon.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

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Standard divide and conquer tactic.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,400]

>Kinda like saying, "So if you have the choice of a child being adopted by a
>loving and gentle gay couple, you would prefer that the child go to
>alcoholic abusive heterosexual parents." It gives two different situations to
>compare.

More like saying "When comparing the risk of a child being abused by a parent, the risks are fairly similar when factoring in sexual orientation of the parents."

[craddock 0]

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SUV's typically cost more, have less room, get worse mileage

My wife has a 2007 Grand Caravan. It don't think we have ever gotten 20 mpg with it. The company I work for has had hundreds of Grand Caravans on the road for the last several years. While I like them, every one reports around 18-19 mpg because they have them loaded up. I only used one for work once when my truck was in the body shop, and I averaged 17.8 mpg. Now don't get me wrong I really like the Grand Caravan. I also realise that there are mini vans that get better gas milage, but the Caravan is the most popular on the road.

I get equal or better gas mileage in either of my full size 4 door trucks. Many SUV's get better gas mileage than all of the above. If I did not need a truck, I would drive an SUV. It is the most pratical for my family. The main reasons I would need one over the minvan are towing and 4x4(awd minvan will not cut it).

I am so sick of all the rants against SUV's

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[kelpdiver 2]

most of the safety advantages of the SUV dissipate if everyone else gets one, and now you have 5000lb cars hitting each other instead of 3500lb ones.

Traction control and ABS haven't done very much to improve safety either - it just seems to encourage more tailgating and other bad behavior under the comfort of perceived safety.

You'd be just as safe with the regular volvo.

[willard 0]

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>And if Edwards thinks I should sacrifice the safety of my kids for gas mileage . . .

SUV's are no safer for children than your average car. People just _feel_ safe because they feel like they're sitting up higher - and that makes people feel more secure.

Hmmm...I don't know about that. Is there any data to support that claim? Seems you would be safer in any collision sitting in a heavier vehicle, all else being the same (air bags, restraints, etc.)

[craddock 0]

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Traction control and ABS haven't done very much to improve safety either - it just seems to encourage more tailgating and other bad behavior under the comfort of perceived safety.

Classic Risk Compensation.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[SpeedRacer 1]

S.U.V. = Suddenly Upsidedown Vehicle

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[kallend 1,623]

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>And if Edwards thinks I should sacrifice the safety of my kids for gas mileage . . .

SUV's are no safer for children than your average car. People just _feel_ safe because they feel like they're sitting up higher - and that makes people feel more secure.

Hmmm...I don't know about that. Is there any data to support that claim? Seems you would be safer in any collision sitting in a heavier vehicle, all else being the same (air bags, restraints, etc.)

All else is never the same. How about ability to maneuver to avoid said accident without rolling over, for example.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sv3n 0]

Seating for 4, under 15.000 €, and 157 mpg.....

http://www.loremo.com/index_en.php

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/vehicles/loremo-157mpg-dieselpowered-car-157074.php

...and you're in violation of your face!

[billvon 2,400]

>Seems you would be safer in any collision sitting in a heavier vehicle . . .

If the issue is head-on collision with another vehicle, the heavier vehicle is safer.

If the issue is tangential collision, you are generally safer in the lower vehicle. "Riding up" on another vehicle due to high ground clearance virtually guarantees a rollover.

If the issue is collision with a safety barrier (i.e. guardrail) you are safer in the lighter, lower vehicle - the barrier is more likely to prevent excursion of the vehicle into an unsafe area (dropoff, oncoming traffic etc)

If the issue is maneuvering to _avoid_ a collision, you are safer in the lower vehicle; lower CG's equal more maneuverability, stronger braking potential and more resistance to rollover (all else being equal.)

If the issue is collision with an immovable object (i.e. a bridge abutment, a big rock, a retaining wall) you are safer in the vehicle with the best crush zones and best cabin integrity. Vehicle weight does not enter into it.

So you have to define your scenario before deciding which vehicle is safer.

[willard 0]

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So you have to define your scenario before deciding which vehicle is safer.

Exactly. So to say that an SUV is less safe than your average passenger car is merely conjecture without knowing the situation. Also, since driving situations vary greatly with location (stop and go driving during morning crawl vs secluded, winding, slippery mountain roads) one must also consider where the vehicle will be driven.

[willard 0]

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>And if Edwards thinks I should sacrifice the safety of my kids for gas mileage . . .

SUV's are no safer for children than your average car. People just _feel_ safe because they feel like they're sitting up higher - and that makes people feel more secure.

Hmmm...I don't know about that. Is there any data to support that claim? Seems you would be safer in any collision sitting in a heavier vehicle, all else being the same (air bags, restraints, etc.)

All else is almost never the same. How about ability to maneuver to avoid said accident without rolling over, for example.

The ability to avoid an accident without incurring a rollover is as much a function of the driver as it is the vehicle. I know people who can drive an SUV at it's limit through a slalom without trouble, but I know more who could roll an F1 car on a silky smooth frozen lake. On average, people's driving skills suck and they like to place the blame on the vehicle.

[rushmc 18]

Sure, for libs it is easy to tell everyone else what to do.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0807/Edwards_vs_the_SUV.html

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,400]

>Exactly. So to say that an SUV is less safe than your average
>passenger car is merely conjecture without knowing the situation.

Correct. As is saying that SUV's are more safe than cars. One study (the pediatrics study) shows that, on average, for most people, they are no more or less dangerous than cars when it comes to protecting children.

[billvon 2,400]

>On average, people's driving skills suck and they like to place the blame
>on the vehicle.

Yes. But if you are (as you mentioned) an excellent driver, you will be safer in a car that can be pushed harder than in an SUV in which you have to guard against rollover. Lower-CG vehicles stop faster, can turn more sharply and are more predictable. If, OTOH, you plan to drive headfirst into other vehicles, the SUV would likely be the safer vehicle. As you mentioned, it's all in the context.

[rushmc 18]

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>On average, people's driving skills suck and they like to place the blame
>on the vehicle.

Yes. But if you are (as you mentioned) an excellent driver, you will be safer in a car that can be pushed harder than in an SUV in which you have to guard against rollover. Lower-CG vehicles stop faster, can turn more sharply and are more predictable. If, OTOH, you plan to drive headfirst into other vehicles, the SUV would likely be the safer vehicle. As you mentioned, it's all in the context.

Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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If, OTOH, you plan to drive headfirst into other vehicles, the SUV would likely be the safer vehicle. As you mentioned, it's all in the context

Yup.... My Mercedes was totaled back in 1993 by a Ford F250 4x4. The driver was asleep at the wheel... and rearended me at a construction flaggers stop sign.. pushed the rear bumer of my Benz under the rear window...

My Dodge diesel 4x4 Pickup weighs about 7800 lbs...I like having that much mass aroun d me now.. and it still gets 25 MPG on the highway on average.

[kallend 1,623]

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>On average, people's driving skills suck and they like to place the blame
>on the vehicle.

Yes. But if you are (as you mentioned) an excellent driver, you will be safer in a car that can be pushed harder than in an SUV in which you have to guard against rollover. Lower-CG vehicles stop faster, can turn more sharply and are more predictable. If, OTOH, you plan to drive headfirst into other vehicles, the SUV would likely be the safer vehicle. As you mentioned, it's all in the context.

Regardless of your points here the highway safety administration says taking SUVs off the road (for everyone) would result in 96000 more deaths over 10 years. Period

Fascinating. Do you have a source for that?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nanook 1]

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Anyone who drive a vehicle that only returns 15 miles per American gallon needs their head examining.

You would be surprised how many people are not concerned with the gas savings between a 15 mph vehicle vs. a Prius. To many, the savings is negligible enough that it doesn't show a blip when you are looking at pros and cons when car shopping.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Kimbo 0]

Most product tests are repeated over and over until the group paying for the test achieve the desired test results. Once the desired results are achieved in private testing a third party is called in to conduct the final testing and those are the only results that are published. Last year my company did over $300 K worth of product safety testing on our products and only published the final test results. We had done so many tests that when we called in the third party to validate the test results we already new how the test would perform. This is the norm for automobile safety testing as well. Don't believe everything you read.

Kimbo

[billvon 2,400]

> Most product tests are repeated over and over until the group
> paying for the test achieve the desired test results.

I agree. That's why it's valuable to look for groups who have no interest in keeping SUV's on the road or getting them off the road. The American Academy of Pediatrics would be one such organization, as they are advocates for child safety, not cars.

[shropshire 0]

>


Or you could come to SC .... The American Academy of Pedantics

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome