US Passport Denial Program

[quade 3]

I'm conflicted by this story.

While I think that anything that gets people to pay legitimate child support is probably a good thing, I really don't like the idea of this being used as a way to do it.

What will the government decide to tack on to this at a later date? Will they refuse a passport for say, an outstanding traffic ticket?

There are some people on this Forum that are afraid of the government taking away their guns. To me, that's the least of our worries.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

Will they refuse a passport for say, an outstanding traffic ticket?

That depends on if the Judge issued a warrant for failure to appear if the court date is past (Typically what happens if you miss your court date as I found out the hard way many years ago. Got a Ticket for a very minor moving violation, Though the court date was a week later than it was. When I did go to court a week later, I found out that a warrant had been taken out.. Cost lots more to get MY MISTAKE corrected). An outstanding warrant is absolutely reason to deny a Passport.

As for the child support thing, I agree with this. Many time Family Services ran by different states will get involved in collecting child support. They can and will Garnish wages and other things. Also failure to pay court ordered child support is a Crime and at some point a warrant should be issued (Back to the original point, an outstanding warrant is ground for denying a Passport). The problem is that judges do not like to issue warrants for non payment of child support because if the deadbeat is in Jail, they definitely cant pay. So this system seems reasonable in cases where someone significantly behind in child support, They must catch up before a Passport is given. Also it discourages deadbeats from leaving the country to avoid paying child support or going to another country to work where their wages cannot be garnished for the money owed.

[quade 3]

I completely understand all of what you said, however . . . what if the person needs the passport in order to do business outside the country in order to pay the child support?

I really, really don't like the government being involved in personal issues in general and this seems, I dunno, somehow really creepy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PhreeZone 15]

Cali can fail to renew your drivers licence if you are behind in child support payments. They will wait until your child support payments are to with in I believe $1500 of current before issuing you a new one. That is one I'm conflicted about. Most people need to drive to get to work, international travel for a job is one thing, driving is another.

Most people that are in a job that has them traveling internationally for work should be able to make enough money to stay current on their chiild support.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

what if the person needs the passport in order to do business outside the country in order to pay the child support?

excellent point. I had not thought of that.

Quote

I really, really don't like the government being involved in personal issues in general and this seems, I dunno, somehow really creepy.

Sadly enough, The are already involved before this point, It is the Government (Generally State Court) that set the child support to begin with. And like I said, More and more states are letting Family services handle collecting ALL child support if a custodial parent has any problems at all collecting payments. So basically you have a Govt agency (although typically at the state level) trying to collect money that is owed. It just seems reasonable to me that if you alot of money, They don’t want you leaving the country till that money is paid. (I also understand you point about work)

[kallend 1,623]

I can recall a time when you had to show that you had paid all your income tax before being allowed out.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

There are some people on this Forum that are afraid of the government taking away their guns. To me, that's the least of our worries.

I'm conflicted for the same reasons you are. But this is a crappy comparison.

Taking away a Constitutional Right from those that are not breaking the law is a lot different than enforcing court ordered payments on a deadbeat (essentially enforcing a "law" - using the term law loosely here but I hope you get the drift).

Using/withholding gov services to enforce the law is ok, but I'm really worried how either party would abuse this in the future. I'd rather a more direct method to enforce the law is used.

Can't the court garnish wages from a deadbeat? Isn't this in the same category? Isn't it NOT the same as removing the freedom of speech or the right to bear arms?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Thanatos340 1]

Quote

Can't the court garnish wages from a deadbeat?

They can and do but many find ways of making money "under the table" and/or relocate to another country where they cannot be touched.

I agree this is not a perfect solution but I can see some rational behind it. They dont want you to leave if you owe a bunch of money. They want the opportunity to collect it from you. They cant do that if you leave.

[normiss 622]

in Florida, child support is collected by the Department of Revenue...what does that tell you?

they can and do suspend driver licenses and auto registrations. they're also all to happy to throw guys in jail for non payment of support.

my favorite issue is during periods of unemployment dads just go in arears as the payments are still due.
so they have been known to jail unemployed dads for non payment...thereby forcing you deeper in arears and adding legal costs...yea...that makes sense to me.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

They can and do but many find ways of making money "under the table" and/or relocate to another country where they cannot be touched.

It will not work to stop those who are relocating to another country. They just need to either apply for U.S. passport in advance (as we all know, there is no passport control when you leave U.S.), or apply for a passport from another country - not even necessary the country they are going to relocate. I know the person who has six(!) legal passports and seven driving licenses - and they all are valid.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[nathaniel 0]

Quote

I completely understand all of what you said, however . . . what if the person needs the passport in order to do business outside the country in order to pay the child support?

Payday loan. Or, work through the legal system for a writ / waiver / whatever--I gather the judicial system doesn't intend to make you pay more than you have. Payday loan would probably be cheaper and more reliable.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[akarunway 1]

Quote

I'm conflicted by this story.

While I think that anything that gets people to pay legitimate child support is probably a good thing, I really don't like the idea of this being used as a way to do it.

What will the government decide to tack on to this at a later date? Will they refuse a passport for say, an outstanding traffic ticket?

There are some people on this Forum that are afraid of the government taking away their guns. To me, that's the least of our worries.

I am on this list. I had a good job lined up to catch up on the back support and was denied a passport. You tell me. My drivers license is also suspended. That really helps me catch up. And they want to put me in jail. Boy. That'll REALLY help me catch up. Fuckin assholes. State gives her a lawyer and triples my child support. They damn sure won't give me a lawyer. Have managed to save a lot of it. Thank god the kid will be 18 in a month. Here is even a better one. If the kid hasn't graduated high school by 18 in some states you gotta keep on paying. Some indefinitley. I asked the clerk of courts about which states and for how long and she told me to get a lawyer. Can't win for losing some time. Yeah I'll hire a lawyer and give him some of the child suupport money. Hope the bitch dies. Rant over.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[normiss 622]

I feel your pain brother...in fact...just yesterday I got a letter from child support requiring me to comply with insurance for my two oldest as they don't have prof of coverage for those two.
they're 20 and 19...
maybe I'll get lucky this time and actually go to jail..it's the cheapest way to see a judge.
she makes one phone call and gets all the legal representation and a prompt hearing...I have to hire a layer for thousands of dollars and it takes 18 months on average to get the hearing.
and I've always busted my ass to take care of my kids...just spent $300 for school clothes for the youngest, college tuition for the oldest...and car for middlest...I don't get it...

[Tonto 1]

My ex wife has been fighting for child support from her daughter's father since she was born. Her daughter is 9 now, and all she's got is ZAR900. (About $120)

There are laws about paying child support here, but no one enforces them.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

My ex wife has been fighting for child support from her daughter's father since she was born.

After making a couple graphs and taking an extra college course, I've deconvolved that sentence.

I believe, sir, that you are you own 1st cousin once removed.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Tonto 1]

No.. We were married, had a daughter, got divorced, she fell pregnant with someone else. Kids are now 13 and 9, and I take them both on the weekends and treat them both as my own. Not the little one's fault, but a little more money would certainly help their family out.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[lummy 4]

Quote

Cali can fail to renew your drivers licence if you are behind in child support payments. They will wait until your child support payments are to with in I believe $1500 of current before issuing you a new one. That is one I'm conflicted about. Most people need to drive to get to work, international travel for a job is one thing, driving is another.

My ex had that happen to her. The state also refused to renew her cosmetology license which effectively took away her ability to make a living.
On the flip side, The DA will make accomodations to drive on a restricted license or release a business license provided you go talk to the D.A. and make arrangements to pay the arrears.
Now if you renege on that agreement (what my ex did) you're screwed.
Personally, I'd feel sorry for her but A) she did it to herself and B) her CS is $100 a month which worked out to 2-3 days of tips for her.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

There are laws about paying child support here, but no one enforces them.

Very similar to Russia.

From other side, I know a person whose wife was going to divorce him, and get alimony/support. Instead of being screwed up in a typical "justice" way, he went to the country of origin (I believe it was Turkey), established residency, and filed a divorce there in absence of the second person. Got divorced in six months, and got the children custody. Then he returned to U.S., and served the divorce papers to his now ex-wife. This obviously canceled the divorce filed in U.S. court, as there was no marriage anymore, but she got another hearing, and the child custody was rearranged. He got a job in another coutry, moved there, and got the local court hearing, and the court ordered him to provide child support, and set the payment of $43/month. He said he should be fine as long as his country of residence was not U.S., and was in process of getting the custody back. Haven't heard from him for a year now though - maybe he's in jail :)

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

There are laws about paying child support here, but no one enforces them.

Very similar to Russia.

From other side, I know a person whose wife was going to divorce him, and get alimony/support. Instead of being screwed up in a typical "justice" way, he went to the country of origin (I believe it was Turkey), established residency, and filed a divorce there in absence of the second person. Got divorced in six months, and got the children custody. Then he returned to U.S., and served the divorce papers to his now ex-wife. This obviously canceled the divorce filed in U.S. court, as there was no marriage anymore, but she got another hearing, and the child custody was rearranged. He got a job in another coutry, moved there, and got the local court hearing, and the court ordered him to provide child support, and set the payment of $43/month. He said he should be fine as long as his country of residence was not U.S., and was in process of getting the custody back. Haven't heard from him for a year now though - maybe he's in jail :)

I guess I'm not very impressed by a parent who thinks his children are worth just $43/month.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

I guess I'm not very impressed by a parent who thinks his children are worth just $43/month.

It depends. Not everyone in this world lives in U.S., and in some countries $43/month is more than half of average monthly salary. So from the local court point they made it pretty cruel to order the guy to pay almost 50% of the average monthly income. Again, it depends.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Guest]

Your concern is warranted.

However, some services are denied if a person has not kept up with student loans, or has not registered for Selective Service.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."