Low-Mao 0 #1 August 7, 2007 First of all, the message is unreasonable. That’s the first cause for them to disbelieve, it is unreasonable. 1Corintians 1:18, “The Word of the cross, or the testimony of God, or the Word of God’s wisdom, that is to say the revelation of God inscripturated is to those who are perishing, that is their condition, foolishness...it is foolishness.” In a somewhat sarcastic way, that idea is repeated in verse 21, “God was well pleased through the foolishness of the message.” Verse 23 says to the Gentiles, “It is foolishness.” And then in another sarcastic way in verse 25, “The foolishness of God is actually wiser than men.” And so clearly there is this idea that the revelation of God in Scripture is foolish. It is...the word is moron, moronic, stupid, pointless, unsuitable to human reason. They treat the Word of God with contempt and disdain. And I won’t go into all the details about that, but a crucified God was ridiculous to the Gentiles and equally if not more ridiculous to the Jews. Salvation by faith in a crucified God was even more ridiculous. The whole thing was frankly unreasonable. Secondly, non-Christians do not believe the Bible because the reality is unattainable. 1Corintians 1:19, “It is written, ‘I will destroy the wisdom of the mind and the cleverness of the clever I will set aside. Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God...that is to say God made it this way...the world through its wisdom did not come to know God.” In our rebellion towards God, He cursed the human race into a condition in which it is impossible by means of human wisdom to come to know God. You can’t get there on your own. God designed it that way. “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise...He says...I will destroy the cleverness of the clever. And it pleases God by means of all their intellects and all their wisdom and all their erudition, they cannot come to know Him. In the wisdom of God, God made it possible....impossible for men and women to come to know Him on their own. Thirdly, they don't believe because it's ridiculous. 1Corintians 1:22, “They...the Jews...seek for signs. The Greeks for wisdom.” The Jews were looking for signs. You say, “Wait a minute. Jesus gave them signs and signs and signs and signs.” Yeah, but they wanted the big sign, you knock off the Romans, set up the Kingdom, reign in fulfillment of the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenant. And when He started talking about His death, He went to the cross, it was over. Crucifixion came to the Lord Jesus because He condemned their hypocritical religion, because He didn’t display His power against the Romans and fulfill their own messianic scheme. And then even on the cross they said, “Why don’t You come down off the cross?” Maybe there was a last hope that He would do the sign that they were looking for. But the crucifixion of God? The crucifixion of the Messiah by the Romans? Unthinkable. On the other hand, the Greeks, they sought wisdom. And what does that mean? They sought intricate, complicated, profound, complex philosophies with fancy words and esoteric concepts. And they laughed at the simplicity of the gospel and the unbelievable idea that a crucified God was to be worshiped. That’s why there is to this day a stone in Rome that shows a man bowing down to a jackass and it’s a reflection of an ancient view of Christianity and it says, Alexamanos worships his god.” And the interesting thing about it is the jackass is on a cross. Who would worship a jackass on a cross? It is frankly unbelievable. Number four, its people are unremarkable. The Jews wanted a sign, the Greeks wanted wisdom. Paul preached Christ crucified. The Jews stumbled over it. The Gentiles said it was foolish. 1Corintians 1:26 doesn’t help. “Consider your calling, brethren, there were not many wise, according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble.” Bottom line here is we’re not too impressive. They weren’t then and we aren’t now. The majority of believers have always been unremarkable. They have always been unimpressive to the world, especially to the world of elite minds who treat us with contempt. We’re not the smartest and we’re not the noblest. In fact, 1Corintians 1:27, “God has chosen the foolish to shame the wise. He has chosen the weak to shame the strong. He has chosen the base and the despised and He has chosen the things that are not...” It just keeps getting lower and lower and lower. He chose not the noble, not wise, not the intellectual elite, not the mighty, not the great, the influential, the movers, the shakers, the powerful, not the noble. It’s actually a Greek word that means well-born, high-born, socially ranked. “But He’s chosen foolish, weak, base, agenes, the no births, the nobodies, the no-names, the John Does, the insignificant and the despised.” And then it goes down even lower than that. He’s chosen “The things that are not,” the present participle of ami, the non-existent ones. This last statement is the most contemptible expression in the Greek language to demean another person, to treat them as if they did not even exist. So, they don’t believe. And the fact that we are such an unremarkable lot adds to their resistance. And then a fifth. Not only are the people of this book unremarkable, but the preachers are unfashionable. Come in to chapter 2, “When I came to you, brethren, I didn’t come with superiority of speech or of wisdom.” And that was a problem because they loved this esoteric kind of fancy, complicated, maze-like teaching that brought in all kinds of complexity and profundity and titillated their minds. “I didn’t come with superiority of speech, no tricks of wisdom. I’m determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” There again is this repulsive, unbelievable, simplistic message. Furthermore he didn’t help his cause any by his own persona. You remember the Corinthians said about him his person was frankly contemptible. And his speech was unimpressive. He was with you in weakness, fear, much trembling. My message, my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom but in demonstration of the Spirit and power. So you have a pretty comprehensive look at why people don’t believe. You start with the fact that they can’t. That they don’t have the capability. That they are void of the life of God. They can’t escape the natural. They can’t escape being in the flesh. One who is in the flesh minds only the things of the flesh and he cannot know the things of the Spirit. And you add the fact that all of these give reason to reject and you understand something of the dilemma. The message itself was offensive, unreasonable, unbelievable, incomprehensible. The people were the lowly and the preachers were the weak and the unimpressive and the fearful and the trembling. And you add the fallen condition, natural darkness, satanic blinding and divine judgment and non-Christians cannot on their own believe the truth. So the search for God and the search for Christ and the search for the truth and the search to discern whether the Bible is really true in what it’s saying cannot begin and end with human reason. That’s why every time you see one of these deals on television, “The Search for the Real Jesus,” “The Search for the Truth,” it always ends up in error...fallen mind can’t get there on its own. Slightly modified from "Why We Believe While Others Reject" - John MacArthur Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #2 August 8, 2007 Firstly, i'm not going to analyse this post in full because it bears absolutely no relationship to why i do not believe in a God as described in the bible. (that doesn't mean i don't believe in any god by the way) Secondly, viewpoints like "Why they Don't believe in Evolution" are in my view one of the things that turns a lot of people off Christianity, (certainly me having spent some time studying evolutionary biology) because they are based on lies, ignorance, misinformation, misinterpretation and bad science. I would have a lot more respect for the christian church(es) if they could accept an idea like "God created the earth, and put in motion mechanisms such as evolution."Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #3 August 8, 2007 MAny Many people believe in the exsistance of a dude called Jesus Christ, that does not however mean that "Christianity" does not favour Evolution. It's the whole GOD created the Universe and plonked everything in it. That many have issues with Christianity is whole different ball gameYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
br0k3n 0 #4 August 8, 2007 I think "Why they don't believe" can be summed up in 2 words.. NO EVIDENCE There you have it, good bye, good night, the end... Come back when you have some.... YAWN.... I wont hold my breath....----------------------------------------------------------- --+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #5 August 8, 2007 cuz it is all bull shit.. man written bull shit... man made bull shit... and Jesus did not died for MY sins...Jesus was serving MY burrito at Taco Bell..Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Low-Mao 0 #6 August 8, 2007 Quotethey are based on lies, ignorance, misinformation, misinterpretation and bad science. Interesting, this is usually the case when talking to people that don't understand the Bible. QuoteI would have a lot more respect for the christian church(es) if they could accept an idea like "God created the earth, and put in motion mechanisms such as evolution." I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't this require all scientists to believe in God and for all Christians to ultmately deny the biblical account of creation at some point within that account? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ErricoMalatesta 0 #7 August 8, 2007 For me its the part where the entire thing is complete fictional bullshit and doesn't stand a chance of combating my sound grasp of history and reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #8 August 8, 2007 QuoteQuotethey are based on lies, ignorance, misinformation, misinterpretation and bad science. Interesting, this is usually the case when talking to people that don't understand the Bible. QuoteUm - the bible is not science, bad or otherwise. It is a story. Whether or not that story is true is open to argument. I will give you the rest of it, people can be pretty unpleasant about anything. But look at the evolution article you posted - that is everything i just described. QuoteI would have a lot more respect for the christian church(es) if they could accept an idea like "God created the earth, and put in motion mechanisms such as evolution." I understand what you are saying, but wouldn't this require all scientists to believe in God and for all Christians to ultmately deny the biblical account of creation at some point within that account? No - why should it? It certainly doesn't require scientists who dont believe in god to change their minds. And i also don't think it requires Christians to deny creation, its all in the interpretation. Most christians have seen that the creation story should not be taken literally already and have no problem with that. Unless of course you are a new earth creationist, in which case there is no point even discussing this with you.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdshit 0 #9 August 8, 2007 Again, think goodness for ADD. Do you see the irony in explaining how you presume to know so much about why I don't believe in God by quoting Scripture? Isn't that like a Rabbi chastising the Nazis by quoting from 'Mein Kampf'? Just enjoy the fairy tale you live in. I desperately wish I could join you and dance in the dandelions, but unfortunately I am locked into my cold, hard, scientific world. Perhaps before trying to wax poetic with Quotes from the Bible, try something that is a little more my speed to try to explain to me how you know all about me... I recommend the works of Adam Smith, Voltaire, and Friedrich Nietzsche. Try to frame it in the context of of like post-modern humanism or the concept of "over-man" with a nitroglycerin chaser, a little party umbrella and a twist of lime. Mmmmmkay? And for Christs sake, just give me the cliff notes. You guys are killing me with your 10,000 word essays. K? Kewl. Peace out, my holier-than-thou brotha! Just keep looking down your nose at me... I might do a trick!!! I will still give ya a good gear check though... I am cool like that... we are all family here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdshit 0 #10 August 8, 2007 Quoteand Jesus did not died for MY sins...Jesus was serving MY burrito at Taco Bell.. Yeah I caught Jesus trying to steal my car stereo the other day. I beat him mercilessly about the face and neck with a blunt object. Call me Judas Iscariot why dontcha? Whatever. Taught that little bastard a lesson he won't soon forget! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #11 August 8, 2007 QuoteI understand what you are saying, but wouldn't this require all scientists to believe in God and for all Christians to ultmately deny the biblical account of creation at some point within that account? It would require Christians to not take the creation story literally. Which is obviously a good thing, because anyone who does take it literally is a damn idiot.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #12 August 8, 2007 my reason for not believing in Christianity is .. no evidence, end of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 August 8, 2007 Christianity: Some guy got nailed to a tree for saying we should all be nice to each other. Lessons from Christianity: 1 - We should all be nice to each other. OK, good message. 2 - Some people will nail another to a tree for saying we should all be nice to each other. Watch out for assholes. Especially if they are in power. all the rest? I don't much know or care. I assume those parts were written by guys that eventually got into power. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #14 August 8, 2007 Not sure one can summairse the teachings of jesus as described in the NT as saying we should all be nice to each other. After all he did say those that didnt support him should have ever lasting torture. Hows that for being nice to each other? "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." jesus in John 15.6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 August 8, 2007 QuoteNot sure one can summairse the teachings of jesus as described in the NT as saying we should all be nice to each other. After all he did say those that didnt support him should have ever lasting torture. Hows that for being nice to each other? "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." jesus in John 15.6 pick and choose if you will, the general theme is pretty clear - don't you think those types of statements were written later when the organized church was trying to consolidate power? or being burned is the consequence of those that aren't nice to each other pick either response that you like ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #16 August 8, 2007 QuoteInteresting, this is usually the case when talking to people that don't understand the Bible. Interesting, this is usually the case when talking to people that don't understand science. See how that works just spout some BS with no proof and your superior. What a crock O shit. Why don't you go read a brief history of time, and see if you can wrap your brain around it. That might give ya a clue. The day you can explain light cones. Not the cut and paste explanations you seem to favor, but truly explain them, will be the day I take you halfway seriously. Going with your kind of presumptive logic. That will never happen. So I don't have to ever take you seriously. good day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #17 August 8, 2007 I think its Christians that like to pik and chose. Ive never denied that Jesus (in the bible) said some great stuff. He also said some nasty stuff. Its far more common ( as you yourself did) for people to pretend he only said nice stuff than the opposite, so I feel obliged to point out the relaity of the Christian texts. Were the statements written later on? Oh thats very possible. But no one knows who wrote the gospels or when they were written, so to be honest thats all speculation. We dont know what jesus really said if he even existed at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowflake 0 #18 August 8, 2007 psssst...... No it wasn't for power. Your talking crazy. Constantine started the first council of Nicaea out of the goodness of his heart, and the love of his people. I bet Mr cut and paste has never heard of nor understands the implications that council had on his religion (edit to add) Sunday as the holy day what a laugh riot, Apollo must have been pleased. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #19 August 8, 2007 QuoteIve never denied that Jesus (in the bible) said some great stuff. He also said some nasty stuff. Do you really think that the bible actually shows exact quotes from some guy???????? Quoterelaity of the Christian texts. "reality"? nonsense, there is only a couple of scenarios that make sense in real life (not the nonsense you read in the bible written by others much later based on word of mouth by those with agendas) 1 - Some guy walked around talking a lot about how people need to be nice to each other - it resonated with a lot of people - got the guy nailed to a tree 2 - Someone made up a bunch of parables about some guy walking around talking a lot about how people need to be nice to each other and he got nailed to a tree for his troubles - it resonated with a lot of people I can believe #1, sometimes exceptional (non-deified, mortal, regular) individuals do show up now and then. Even then, it's not important which we wish is true, other than we learn the lesson. Note: any of the organized churches don't really teach the lesson "Be nice to each other". Their main messages are "Be loyal to this church" - it's important to keep cynicism over the application that reveals the 2nd message to not overwhelm the 1st message. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misaltas 0 #20 August 9, 2007 Quote Some people will nail another to a tree for saying we should all be nice to each other. Yes! Douglas Adams is not quoted nor paraphrased enough, I think. So much brilliance and talent in too short of a life.Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shermanator 3 #21 August 9, 2007 Quotecuz it is all bull shit.. man written bull shit... man made bull shit... and Jesus did not died for MY sins...Jesus was serving MY burrito at Taco Bell.. dude, mike, get out of Speakers Corner.. you don't belong here!! hahaCLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08 CSA #720 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #22 August 9, 2007 "Do you really think that the bible actually shows exact quotes from some guy???????? " No of course not. I'm critiquing the bible as it is presented. Im making no assumption on whether the characters in it are real or fiction. They may be based on a real person, they might not be, I have no idea. You are still assuming the main message is be nice to each other. I think thats an innacuarte description. The character of Jesus in the bible ( which may or may not desribe a real person) says some nice stuff like the golden rule and he says some horrid stuff like dont believe in me and youll be burnt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #23 August 9, 2007 Quotesome nice stuff like the golden rule and he says some horrid stuff like dont believe in me and youll be burnt. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2911106#2911106 ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #24 August 9, 2007 "You may be young in years but the heart that beats beneath your bosom is as shriveled as an old maid's, your soul as dry as the pages of the books to which you so desperately cleave " Is this supposed to be an argument? Perhaps you should try some evidence and logic and leave the personal insults at the door? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 August 9, 2007 It's a sig line. A quote from a movie/book I found funny. (It's from the Harry Potter series and was very funny in both type and on screen). It's placed at the end of each post like a signature. It's separated from the text content by a straight line and then also I use short line of dots to make it even more obvious for anyone who is really distracted. Almost everybody here has something of the sort. They've been used for years. We aren't allowed to place political content or advertising in sig lines though certain people get away with it anyway. I don't understand why one would want something contentious like politics in there in the first place. Though I do understand the advertising motivation - though I think it's a bit tasteless to do so and it should be monitored more for fairness to those that abide by the rules. Sig lines are considered frivolous and sometimes telling, they may or may not indicate something about someone's personality, they may just be randomness. Sometimes if someone reads something another has written they find amusing, they'll quote it directly as a sig line (I've had that happen twice). Usually they are composed of english words. Sometimes they are in hidden text. They can be applied in one's profile. I hope this clarifies the proper use and application of sig lines. An exam will be administered at the end of the month. It's amazing you'll respond to my posts while not even trying to understand the content (we get it, you and many others have some odd personal issue with others' beliefs and refuse to construct anything positive from it for the sake of grinding an axe - it's all or nothing), yet take the time to read a sig line and get distressed. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
