b1jercat 0
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QuoteI'm waiting for guns in Church...Headlines reading "a disgruntled worshipper shot...."
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Funny you mentioned that! One of the instructors in my CHL class, is an ordained minister... he wears his pistol in church!
Chuck
QuoteIs it a good idea to have armed people in the woods (for example) where there could be wildlife but also other people are out hiking.... That rustling bush could be a bear or it could be a kid.
Not saying that all gun owners are trigger happy, but it's not too hard to envisage painfull problems.
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That's called a 'sound shot'!
Chuck
I support the right to carry in the Parks and any backcountry area. A person would have to be a fool to not carry. But, I am more worried about some crazed person than most animals. But then again, I have no experience in Grizzly country...other than camping in one of the big Yellowstone and Glacier tent sites......If I were on the trail, I would carry.
I was on a guided river trip in Idaho in 99 and the guides were very nervous. On the second day they told me that during a private trip prior to ours, some guy on a horse chased the rafters for several miles firing a shotgun into the riverbank while screaming at them. At first I thought they were kidding until we got back town and watched the news to learn the sheriff had arrested a man for such threats!
"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"
I was on a guided river trip in Idaho in 99 and the guides were very nervous. On the second day they told me that during a private trip prior to ours, some guy on a horse chased the rafters for several miles firing a shotgun into the riverbank while screaming at them. At first I thought they were kidding until we got back town and watched the news to learn the sheriff had arrested a man for such threats!
"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"
Douva 0
QuoteIs it a good idea to have armed people in the woods (for example) where there could be wildlife but also other people are out hiking.... That rustling bush could be a bear or it could be a kid.
Not saying that all gun owners are trigger happy, but it's not too hard to envisage painfull problems.
We don't have people firing blind, paranoid shots in cities or anywhere else people carry guns; I don't see why we'd have it in the woods.
I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.
Gene03 0
QuoteI usually just put it in my pack out of sight when I backpack there...I guess I am one of those evil lawbreakers huh.
But, wouldn't you feel better with one of those little bear bells to warn the animal that you're coming.
Or do they just call them dinner bells?
“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.
Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)
Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)
Quote
I think, a lot of the problems with bears and other wildlife in our parks is from being stupid. There are signs all over the parks stating: "Do Not Feed The... Bears, Elk, Deer, skunks whatever. what do the tourists do? They feed them. Most tourists to our parks don't know shit from a good grade of apple butter about wildlife. The animals equate humans with food. As much as I like guns and carry a hand-gun, I just don't believe, our National Parks is the proper place for a firearm.
Chuck
there's a huge difference between the black bears of Yosemite, and the sort of bears in Alaska. The grizzlies are pretty damn dangerous, regardless of what you're doing, and the polar bears will go out of their way to get you and eat you.
It's also the difference between a national park that resembles a green Disneyland, and a true frontier. The food chain is different there.
As I understand it, a campsite is considered a home with the same gun rights one has at home, so I can see California being hostile to the idea of changing back. Even I'm not sure I want to see Camp Curry armed. It's grossly overcrowed with yahoos already.
b1jercat 0
National parks and wilderness area's are two different things. Anything goes in the back country, except motorizes vehiclies. You can carry in wilderness area.
blues
Jerry
blues
Jerry
So are they trying to allow hunting also or is this a personal protection thing? Its getting harder and harder to find a place to shoot in the NW. Between the Weyerhauser,longfibre,J river, companies blocking the accesses to logging areas, and the Clinton wilderness deal(we lost alot of acres to fire becuase of that) its getting to be a true effort. This summer I was taking a gal to a place out of Longview and they blocked that and had a guerd at night. wouldnt let up go up with a telescope. And yes at night I like to carry a piece. So for any good night sky its 150 miles to central oregon, BLM land
QuoteQuote
I think, a lot of the problems with bears and other wildlife in our parks is from being stupid. There are signs all over the parks stating: "Do Not Feed The... Bears, Elk, Deer, skunks whatever. what do the tourists do? They feed them. Most tourists to our parks don't know shit from a good grade of apple butter about wildlife. The animals equate humans with food. As much as I like guns and carry a hand-gun, I just don't believe, our National Parks is the proper place for a firearm.
Chuck
there's a huge difference between the black bears of Yosemite, and the sort of bears in Alaska. The grizzlies are pretty damn dangerous, regardless of what you're doing, and the polar bears will go out of their way to get you and eat you.
It's also the difference between a national park that resembles a green Disneyland, and a true frontier. The food chain is different there.
As I understand it, a campsite is considered a home with the same gun rights one has at home, so I can see California being hostile to the idea of changing back. Even I'm not sure I want to see Camp Curry armed. It's grossly overcrowed with yahoos already.
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I understand the difference in the creatures in wilderness areas and our natl. parks. I can also see a need for a firearm in a wilderness area. I'm beginning to see also, where a firearm could come in handy in some of our natl. parks.
Chuck
Royd 0
In the big church here in Jacksonville, a lot of the deacons are carrying during the service.QuoteI'm waiting for guns in Church...Headlines reading "a disgruntled worshipper shot...."
QuoteIn the big church here in Jacksonville, a lot of the deacons are carrying during the service.
If you do a news search you'll find a number of churches have been victims of robbery on Sunday mornings after collection. The suspects would wait for the ushers/deacons to exit the back of the sacturary with all the money then commit their crime.
I don't care what god you do or don't believe in or what kind of church they were, that's just wrong.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
SkyDekker 1,127
QuoteThat's the decision that this law forces citizens to make. You can:
1) Break the law to protect your life, or;
2) Obey the law and put your life at risk.
Laughable.
There are more options than that. Nobody forces you to be in a national park. If you want to hike in the wilderness while carrying a gun, go to some of the frontiers.
If you are scared of the bears you have to option of taking a hike somewhere else. You are going to their habitat.
kallend 1,632
QuoteIn the big church here in Jacksonville, a lot of the deacons are carrying during the service.QuoteI'm waiting for guns in Church...Headlines reading "a disgruntled worshipper shot...."
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteIn the big church here in Jacksonville, a lot of the deacons are carrying during the service.QuoteI'm waiting for guns in Church...Headlines reading "a disgruntled worshipper shot...."
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Rather like a shepherd guarding the flock, wouldn't you say?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quote
We don't have people firing blind, paranoid shots in cities or anywhere else people carry guns.
Notable exception for NYPD?
Blue,s
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
JohnRich 4
QuoteSo are they trying to allow hunting also or is this a personal protection thing?
Hunting is a seperate issue I believe. Many Parks allow hunting during the hunting season, and issue permits for that. Some even prohibit everyone else except the hunters during that time, for safety. But outside of hunting season, firearms are prohibited.
I once spent a week camping in the KOFA wildlife preserve, near Yuma, Arizona. Unarmed, to comply with the law. After coming back to civilization, I read news stories of campers being murdered by illegal immigrants coming across the desert, for their food and transportation. Lovely...
I think the Park Service would rather see honest campers murdered, then to see dangerous criminals shot in self defense.
kallend 1,632
QuoteQuoteQuoteIn the big church here in Jacksonville, a lot of the deacons are carrying during the service.QuoteI'm waiting for guns in Church...Headlines reading "a disgruntled worshipper shot...."
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Rather like a shepherd guarding the flock, wouldn't you say?
No, I wouldn't say that. An omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being wouldn't need to resort to firearms.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
SkyDekker 1,127
QuoteNo, I wouldn't say that. An omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being wouldn't need to resort to firearms.
To complete the thread drift: I was wondering with regards to the Pope's visit to Turkey and the heavy security around him. Why does he need security at all? Wouldn't he be protected by God's will? obviously if he gets shot, it was God's will. Kind of like sex without a condom...
...
Well. So much for an armed society being a polite society.
Well. So much for an armed society being a polite society.
Exactly my thoughts ...
dudeist skydiver # 3105
steve1 5
QuoteQuoteQuote
I think, a lot of the problems with bears and other wildlife in our parks is from being stupid.
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I agree with this....But there have also been many people over the years who have done everything right, and yet were killed by a bear. That's why I would never feel safe hiking out through the wilds of Denali Park or even Yellowstone Park without some type of backup. I don't care how bear savy you are, there's a pretty good chance that, over time, something bad would happen. I'm not afraid of bears, but I do have a healthy respect for them.
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there's a huge difference between the black bears of Yosemite, and the sort of bears in Alaska. The grizzlies are pretty damn dangerous, regardless of what you're doing, and the polar bears will go out of their way to get you and eat you.
reply]
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I agree again, but black bear kill far more people each year than any other species of bear. You can do everything right and still be attacked by one. I remember one starving black bear that killed three people in a very short period of time and then started eating them.
As far as everyone being allowed to pack a weapon in a National Park...I can see your point on this....But I can also relate to the other side of the argument. So this makes for interesting discussion....Steve1
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
I think, a lot of the problems with bears and other wildlife in our parks is from being stupid.
.......................................................................
I agree with this....But there have also been many people over the years who have done everything right, and yet were killed by a bear. That's why I would never feel safe hiking out through the wilds of Denali Park or even Yellowstone Park without some type of backup. I don't care how bear savy you are, there's a pretty good chance that, over time, something bad would happen. I'm not afraid of bears, but I do have a healthy respect for them.
...........................................................................
there's a huge difference between the black bears of Yosemite, and the sort of bears in Alaska. The grizzlies are pretty damn dangerous, regardless of what you're doing, and the polar bears will go out of their way to get you and eat you.
reply]
..........................................................................
I agree again, but black bear kill far more people each year than any other species of bear. You can do everything right and still be attacked by one. I remember one starving black bear that killed three people in a very short period of time and then started eating them.
As far as everyone being allowed to pack a weapon in a National Park...I can see your point on this....But I can also relate to the other side of the argument. So this makes for interesting discussion....Steve1
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After reading your profile and just judging by where you live, I'd sure put my money on you, as for knowing about bears.
You've made some really good points and none I can argue with. Maybe, limiting the carrying of firearms to those who are trekking into 'rough' country? This is a pretty interesting discussion.
Chuck
I think guns should be allowed in national parks, but there should be severe penalties for firing them in a manner other than in self defense. There is no other valid reason to fire a weapon in a national park.
We need to find an appropriate balance between protecting nature and protecting ourselves.
We need to find an appropriate balance between protecting nature and protecting ourselves.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIn the big church here in Jacksonville, a lot of the deacons are carrying during the service.QuoteI'm waiting for guns in Church...Headlines reading "a disgruntled worshipper shot...."
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Rather like a shepherd guarding the flock, wouldn't you say?
No, I wouldn't say that. An omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent being wouldn't need to resort to firearms.
I (and the other poster) were speaking of the deacons...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
And of course this is just another example of law abiding citizens taking it in the shorts once again.
blues
Jerry
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