3700 dead Iraqis in October

[tkhayes 140]

THANK GOD we got rid of that ruthless dictator......

I am sure they all feel so much safer now.

TK

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

THANK GOD we got rid of that ruthless dictator......

I am sure they all feel so much safer now.

TK

I'm pretty sure the Kurdish tribesmen are feeling safer...but that doesn't make near as good of a Bush-bash, now does it?

Not to worry...I'm sure the Dhims will have all the murdering, baby-raping American troops safely recalled retrograde-redeployed home by January 15th, so the Sunni and Shi'a can slaughter each other and assorted innocent bystanders, unhindered...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SkyDekker 1,144]

Quote

I'm pretty sure the Kurdish tribesmen are feeling safer...but that doesn't make near as good of a Bush-bash, now does it?

Not to worry...I'm sure the Dhims will have all the murdering, baby-raping American troops safely recalled retrograde-redeployed home by January 15th, so the Sunni and Shi'a can slaughter each other and assorted innocent bystanders, unhindered...

Sounds like Saddam was better at running that country than the US is.

[jcd11235 0]

It's nice to know we invaded the sovereign country of Iraq to find WMD with which Saddam could attack America with only forty-five minutes notice remove Saddam from power so a democratic government could be established start an Iraqi civil war.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

It's nice to know we invaded the sovereign country of Iraq to find WMD with which Saddam could attack America with only forty-five minutes notice remove Saddam from power so a democratic government could be established start an Iraqi civil war.

Yeah!! Damn those lying Republicans!!!

I guess it's safe to put those translate documents from Hussein's science committee back on the internet, then - after all, he didn't have any WMDs and wasn't anywhere close to having them....right??

Quote

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rhys 0]

Quote

I'm pretty sure the Kurdish tribesmen are feeling safer...but that doesn't make near as good of a Bush-bash, now does it?

Not to worry...I'm sure the Dhims will have all the murdering, baby-raping American troops safely recalled retrograde-redeployed home by January 15th, so the Sunni and Shi'a can slaughter each other and assorted innocent bystanders, unhindered...

What a crock . .

What a waste of lifes.

Hate to say I told you so!http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1551920;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[nigel99 149]

You're missing the point - it is much better now under Saddam it would have been at least 3701 in October...

I am sick of this whole saga and hope that we see Bush & Blair in the Hague at some point in the future.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Quote

It's nice to know we invaded the sovereign country of Iraq to find WMD with which Saddam could attack America with only forty-five minutes notice remove Saddam from power so a democratic government could be established start an Iraqi civil war.

Yeah!! Damn those lying Republicans!!!

I guess it's safe to put those translate documents from Hussein's science committee back on the internet, then - after all, he didn't have any WMDs and wasn't anywhere close to having them....right??

Quote

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

You seem a bit defensive, considering I made no mention of partisan politics.

I believe:

The United States' first priority should be removing the Republicans from power. The second priority should be preventing the Democrats from taking the Republicans' place. Sadly, until enough people realize our system's broke, we all lose (not just Americans).

So please, save your petty partisan copy and pastes for someone who sees the left as something other than merely a very slight improvement over the right.

Back on topic, do you believe Iraq has been anything besides a major fuck-up that has costed thousands of lives?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[SkyDekker 1,144]

Quote

Back on topic, do you believe Iraq has been anything besides a major fuck-up that has costed thousands of lives?

It has been great for the profits of a select few companies.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Quote

Back on topic, do you believe Iraq has been anything besides a major fuck-up that has costed thousands of lives?

It has been great for the profits of a select few companies.

So was the Viet Nam war. Colt Firearms comes to mind.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[tkhayes 140]

hmm was that a Bush-bash? Funny I did not mention it.

Sad that you appear to think that it OK to lose 2900 American lives (9/11), blame terrorism and try to change the world by invading based on a bunch of lies - but 3700 Iraqis die in one month and we still feel that we are 'doing the right thing'..

apparently American lives are worth so mcuh more than Iraqi lives

oopos, there I am - making sense again - How dare I.....

TK

[JohnRich 4]

If the U.S. cuts-and-runs, do you think the Muslims will suddenly quit murdering each other?

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

If the U.S. cuts-and-runs, do you think the Muslims will suddenly quit murdering each other?

If we keep doing what we are will they stop murdering each other and us?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,433]

> If the U.S. cuts-and-runs, do you think the Muslims will suddenly quit murdering each other?

Nope. And if we stay and die, they won't quit either. Indeed, the longer we stay there, the worse it gets.

Which would you rather read about - a bombing that kills 300 Iraqis, or a bombing that kills 300 Iraqis and 10 american soldiers?

[kallend 1,647]

Lame lame lame. BUSH is 100% responsible for the total FIASCO that has been produced by his lies and incompetent management of his invasion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Lame lame lame. BUSH is 100% responsible for the total FIASCO that has been produced by his lies and incompetent management of his invasion.

Congress is supposed to keep the CIC in check in such situations. Our Congress has been slacking. They either:

Intended to give the President all the authority he has claimed to have with regards to the invasion of Iraq.

or

did not intend to give the President such broad power, and have also done not much of anything to reign in a President over reaching his authority.

Either way, Congress has been slacking. And it hasn't just been the Republicans, though they are likely the greater of the two evils.

Our system is broken, but we are too busy looking in the mirrors and admiring our own perceived perfection to notice such details.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[airdvr 200]

I guess you're suggesting peolple wouldn't die in Iraq if Saddam were still in power? To quote Marine Corporal Richard Gibson, "Today, the terrorists attack the government. In Saddam's day, they ran it."

The argument, essentially, is that Iraqis were better off when they had a tranquil public life with 70 people being bumped off by their own government every day. It's easy for us to sit a pontificate about the situation. I still don't hear anyone who thinks this is not going to work suggesting an alternative other to cut and run. The thinking seems to be "People are dying, we better get out."

If we apply that line of thought everywhere...

Doctors are the third leading cause of death in the US. Guess we should get rid of them.

108,000 people died in "accidents" in 2004. Should we never leave the house?

29,000 by firearms. We know where you guys want to go on that one.

"You should have disagreements with your leaders and your colleagues, but if it becomes immediately a question of questioning people's motives, and if immediately you decide that somebody who sees a whole new situation differently than you must be a bad person and somehow twisted inside, we are not going to get very far in forming a more perfect union. " Bill Clinton - May 2004

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,144]

Quote

It's easy for us to sit a pontificate about the situation. I still don't hear anyone who thinks this is not going to work suggesting an alternative other to cut and run.

Well, when you fuck up, you generally begin the repairing process with an acknowledgement and an apology.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I still don't hear anyone who thinks this is not going to work suggesting an alternative other to cut and run.

Billvon has offered an alternative to both "staying the course" and "cutting and running."

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[nigel99 149]

Quote

The argument, essentially, is that Iraqis were better off when they had a tranquil public life with 70 people being bumped off by their own government every day.

Wow that figure works out at 2100 a month, I expected the argument to be that they were better off cause under Saddam there was 1 more a month not 1000 less...

As to the cut and run comment - you broke it, you fix it. It is not like everyone in the world felt that Iraq needing to be invaded. I figure its time the US government admitted they cocked up big time and asked the Arabs for help on finding a solution (not help in implementing the US solution).

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

> If the U.S. cuts-and-runs, do you think the Muslims will suddenly quit murdering each other?

Nope.

Correct. They've been slaughtering each other for thousands of years. Sadam slaughtered his own people before we arrived. And they'll keep right on doing it long after we're gone.

To blame this muslim-on-muslim slaughter on America, is ignorant. (Not refering to you, billvon.)

And the same people that want us to cut-and-run from Iraq, are often the same people crying that we should interject and do something about the muslim slaughter in Darfur. Go figure.

[tkhayes 140]

if we were never there in the first place - would 3700 have died last month? No not at all.

however we ARE there, yet we refuse to say we were wrong and accept responsibility.

perhaps if the US stood up and said we were wrong, it would go a long way in establishing world peace - instead of world war....

[tkhayes 140]

actually it has been proven again and again that there were NO terrorists in Iraq prior to the invasion.

that was just the label our govt liked to put on them.

So we were duped into believeing that - yet there is no evidence of terrorism.

Now, of course there are lots of them, thank God or we could not justify staying there. Why are they there? Easier to fight Americans on their own soil that fight Americans on American soil -

Watch Red Dawn again - then call the 'Americans insurgents' terrorists if you can

you people just do not get it -

[tkhayes 140]

'slaughtered' prior to our arrival. I challenge you to prove that.

I really doubt 100+ people a day were dying violently in Iraq before we got there.

Nice thing about dictators, they like to keep their house in order. Sure people were knocked off, but not at the rate, not even close to what you are assuming. Kind of like the Mafia in the 70's. Everyone liked livign in their neighborhoods, violence existed, but keep your nose clean and they kept the neighborhood very safe and secure, for them selves.

But it is still crime right?

Sure it is. The people of Iraq, when they are/were good and ready, can easily rise up and defeat their governm,ent themselves. They did not need us in their fucking it up and starting a civil war.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

if we were never there in the first place - would 3700 have died last month? No not at all.

Oh? You have a crystal ball and can see alternative futures? Wow!

Quote

perhaps if the US stood up and said we were wrong, it would go a long way in establishing world peace - instead of world war...

You really like to live in a fantasy world, don't you?

It's fun to watch how you predict the future would be all warm fuzzy bunnies if we would just do what you want. Unfortunately, you have no such power to predict such outcomes, and doing so are just flights of fancy.

Quote

actually it has been proven again and again that there were NO terrorists in Iraq prior to the invasion.

Sadam had lots of "terrorists" he unleashed upon his populace to keep them in line. Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered by his orders. The mass graves have been found. Have you been reading "Rolling Stone(d)" like Darius for your political news?