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akarunway

An embarrasment for the U.S. Navy

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LOL. Wonder if Adm. Roughead will keep his job.http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061113-121539-3317r.htm



It does happen... and those diesel-electrics are fiendishly hard to hear on electrics, according to my cousin (a sonarman).

I'm sure the TF CO is getting a thorough reaming at the very least...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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It does happen... and those diesel-electrics are fiendishly hard to hear on electrics, according to my cousing (a sonarman).



Yeah, my dad used to do research on warship noise signatures - he was gutted when we (UK) decided to de-commission our diesel-electrics. Said they were the only thing out there you could make absolutely silent when it was needed - you can never shut down the water pumps in a nuclear reactor:P

Technology's come on 15 years since he last worked in that area though.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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It does happen... and those diesel-electrics are fiendishly hard to hear on electrics, according to my cousing (a sonarman).



Yeah, my dad used to do research on warship noise signatures - he was gutted when we (UK) decided to de-commission our diesel-electrics. Said they were the only thing out there you could make absolutely silent when it was needed - you can never shut down the water pumps in a nuclear reactor:P

Technology's come on 15 years since he last worked in that area though.



Yeah...Jay said nothing beats the electrics... said you have to literally be right on top of them to hear them, unless something forces them to sprint.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Unless this is a MI excersise(disinformation)
I am of the opinion that the sub should have been sunk for such an act and targeting of all contacts within 50 miles should have been sternly shaken up.



What! Don't be ridiculous:S

In international waters that sub can be wherever the fuck it wants to be. What would you have done 30 years ago if the Russkies had sunk a USN boat that was tailing one of their battle groups? I guarantee you that the US, the UK, the Russians and the Chinese all have other boats out their doing the exact same thing right now. It is a game that all parties understand.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Unless this is a MI excersise(disinformation)
I am of the opinion that the sub should have been sunk for such an act and targeting of all contacts within 50 miles should have been sternly shaken up.



What! Don't be ridiculous:S

In international waters that sub can be wherever the fuck it wants to be. What would you have done 30 years ago if the Russkies had sunk a USN boat that was tailing one of their battle groups? I guarantee you that the US, the UK, the Russians and the Chinese all have other boats out their doing the exact same thing right now. It is a game that all parties understand.



I know that was the game before, and yet I stand by my statement.

There would be virtually no way for them to now what happened to the sub.

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I am of the opinion that the sub should have been sunk for such an act and targeting of all contacts within 50 miles should have been sternly shaken up



The US are having a hard enough time with two fronts, how would you propose they fight a third with China on the other side?

crazy:S

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Unless this is a MI excersise(disinformation)
I am of the opinion that the sub should have been sunk for such an act and targeting of all contacts within 50 miles should have been sternly shaken up.



What! Don't be ridiculous:S

In international waters that sub can be wherever the fuck it wants to be. What would you have done 30 years ago if the Russkies had sunk a USN boat that was tailing one of their battle groups? I guarantee you that the US, the UK, the Russians and the Chinese all have other boats out their doing the exact same thing right now. It is a game that all parties understand.



I know that was the game before, and yet I stand by my statement.

There would be virtually no way for them to now what happened to the sub.



So you would sink every foreign sub within, what? 5 miles, 10 miles of a US vessel? It would rapidly become obvious what was happening and you would be declaring open season on USN boats - so then what? You'd be sacrificing US sailors and raising international tensions for the sake of a swinging dick contest.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Don't discount the possibility of a reverse-psychology disinformation plan here. Maybe we knew that the sub was there all along, but we don't want the Chinese to know that we knew. There's good reason to retain such secrets and not let your enemies know what your capabilities are. That way, if there ever is a shooting war, we can catch them by surprise.

In WWII for example, Churchill took no action once to evacuate a British city that was about to be bombed by the German aircraft, because to do so would have revealed their new secret weapon called "radar" which detected the inbound warplanes. That secret needed to be preserved for a greater good.

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In WWII for example, Churchill took no action once to evacuate a British city that was about to be bombed by the German aircraft, because to do so would have revealed their new secret weapon called "radar" which detected the inbound warplanes. That secret needed to be preserved for a greater good.



You are misinformed. The UK had a home defence radar network in place before the start of WWII. The bloody big towers were a bit of a clue for the Germans and they were targeted accordingly (though mostly unsuccessfully) in the opening days of the Battle of Britain. Besides - how would we 'evacuate a city' anyway?

We did however let Crete get taken by the Germans to protect codebreaking capabilities.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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In international waters that sub can be wherever the fuck it wants to be. What would you have done 30 years ago if the Russkies had sunk a USN boat that was tailing one of their battle groups? I guarantee you that the US, the UK, the Russians and the Chinese all have other boats out their doing the exact same thing right now. It is a game that all parties understand.



Agreed. But again this sort of provokation is not needed at this time (by either side).

Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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It wasn't to protect RADAR. It was to protect a human source of information.

Winston Churchill and
The Bombing of Coventry



No it wasn't. That theory has been debunked.

All concerned with the information gleaned from the intercepted German signals were conscious that German suspicions must not be aroused for the sake of ephemeral advantages. In the case of the Coventry raid no dilemma arose, for until the German directional beam was turned on the doomed city nobody knew where the great raid would be. Certainly the Prime Minister did not. The German signals referred to a major operation with the code name "Moonlight Sonata." The usual "Boniface" secrecy in the Private Office had been lifted on this occasion and during the afternoon before the raid I wrote in my diary (kept under lock and key at 10 Downing Street), "It is obviously some major air operation, but its exact destination the Air Ministry find it difficult to determine."

That same afternoon, Thursday 14 November 1940, Churchill set off with [private secretary] John Martin for Ditchley, Mr. and Mrs. Ronald Tree's house in Oxfordshire, generously made available to the Prime Minister once a month when the moon was full and the PM's official residence, Chequers, was vulnerable. Just before Churchill left, word was received that "Moonlight Sonata" was likely to take place that night. In the car he opened his most recent yellow box and read the German signals in full. He immediately told the chauffeur to turn round, and went back to Downing Street.

On arrival he decided that due precautions must be taken, for he assumed the operation to be aimed at London and to be a more massive assault than had ever been made before. He ordered that the female staff be sent home before darkness fell. He packed John Peck and me off to dine and sleep in a sumptuous air-raid shelter prepared and equipped in Down Street underground station by the London Passenger Transport Board. They made it available to the Prime Minister as well as to their own executive. Churchill called it "the burrow," but used it himself on only a few occasions.

John Peck and I dined apolaustically in "the burrow." I commented, with a blend of gratification and disapproval, "Caviar (almost unobtainable in these days of restricted imports); Perrier Jouet 1928; 1865 brandy and excellent Havana cigars." Meanwhile Churchill, impatient for the fireworks to start, made his way to the Air Ministry roof with John Martin and saw nothing. For on their way to Coventry, the raiders dropped no bombs on London.

There is not even the thinnest shred of truth in Group Captain Winterbotham's story of Coventry. It is to be hoped that neither this incident nor a score of others with which Mr. Stevenson's book about "Intrepid" is gaudily bedizened are ever used for the purpose of historical reference. To dispel such an unacceptable hazard is my excuse for this long digression.


Colville was not the first to reveal the truth. Former private secretary, John Martin, who had been with Churchill in London on the fateful night, awaiting the bombers that never came, recalled the facts in The Times on 28 August 1976, when the charge was first circulating. A quarter century later, Christopher Hitchens in The Atlantic wrote that no Churchill defender has ever challenged the story. Historians Norman Longmate, Ronald Levin, Harry Hensley, and David Stafford are just four historians who as early as 1979 explicitly dismissed the Coventry story for the nonsense it is.

Colville's hopes were in vain. The Coventry lie hardily endures, probably forever, periodically resurrected and solemnly proclaimed by those who have convinced themselves of Churchill's perfidy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I'm curious as to where the carriers group's submarine was, it could have been behind the chinese sub for all we know...
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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how do you think the aircraft just happend to spot it while it was surfaced.



Curious...I'm not in the Navy, so I don't know what it means, other than it's bad etiquette to surface...isn't that like "egg-on-your-face" (the Chinese in this case) type stuff?
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

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