Illinois' "Let them rest in peace act" signed into law.

[JohnnyD 0]

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the scale of justice should clearly lean in favor of those burying their dead, and not towards rude assholes.

So, I am assuming that you were in favour of postponing or changing locations of the NRA meeting after the shootings in Columbine? I think that lists pretty high on my list of rude assholes.

Been watching Moore's crap again, hmm?

1. Meeting was in Denver, not Columbine and had been scheduled years in advance.

2. All activities (normally seminars, workshops, etc.) except the general membership meeting were cancelled. Under NY law they are required to have an annual meeting.

3. Columbine happened 11 days before the meeting. NY law states that they would have to notify members at least 10 days before a change of venue.

1. Columbine is the name of a school, not a city
2. At least they made a gesture.
3. Exceptions can always be made for extraordinary circumstances. Just depends on whether you _want_ to make them.

[JohnRich 4]

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So, I am assuming that you were in favour of postponing or changing locations of the NRA meeting after the shootings in Columbine? I think that lists pretty high on my list of rude assholes.

There was no connection between those two events, and no one had any right to tell the NRA to leave town. The NRA was at a convention center, not at the high school, nor at the funerals. The NRA also had nothing to do with the killings.

If gun criminals had protested at the high school, then yes, that would have been rude.

Do try and keep the cause-and-effect relationships straight.

[airtwardo 6]

One of the results of the freedoms we have in the US is that you do NOT have the right to not be offended. It can be a heavy burden at times, but it is part of the burden we accept because we value our freedoms over our desire to not be offended.

***

But isn't the right to practice your religion also guaranteed?

And if so wouldn't attempting to disrupt a burial SERVICE infringe on that right?

But again...

My complaint is the protesting of the people that are effected BY a policy and not protesting the people MAKING the policy.


There has to be a line of common sense and respect drawn somewhere...

Protest where policy is made and implemented.
Like on Capital Hill, or at a recrutement center.




Why is it that the opponents to the death penalty protest at the prison on the day of the execution, and NOT that the funeral service?

Because they are protesting the 'policy' and not the Hump that 'got the needle'.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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Do try and keep the cause-and-effect relationships straight.

The only cause-and-effect relationship that exist is the affinity to the cause having an effect on your feelings. That's what I was trying to point out, thanks to both of you for quickly jumping on it and proving my point.

[airtwardo 6]

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Do try and keep the cause-and-effect relationships straight.

The only cause-and-effect relationship that exist is the affinity to the cause having an effect on your feelings. That's what I was trying to point out, thanks to both of you for quickly jumping on it and proving my point.

***

HUH???



Facts are facts, emotion or not.

If ya mis state them, expect to be corrected.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Skyrad 0]

I'm against people prtesting at funerals, especialy the funerals of service personel. I think its abhorant and evil. HOWEVER... It concerns me that the use of this law could be misused. We already have censorship of coffins and bodybags coming back from Iraq, could this law be used to ban the photos and filming for news purposes of the dead soldiers returning if it was deemed that the media was protesting against the war by showing these images?
I don't know. Its just a concern, any lawers know?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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HUH???



Facts are facts, emotion or not.

If ya mis state them, expect to be corrected.

you obviously didn't get it...sorry.

The protestors outside funerals are acting in poor taste in my opinion. But I am sure that those who agree with their cause do not see it that way.

Holding the NRA meeting that close to and that soon after the columbine shootings was in my opinion also in very poor taste. Obviously those agreeing with the NRA don't see it that way.

In this case more people disagree with the protestors than those disagreeing with the NRA meeting. Doesn't mean that what defines distasteful is more or less decided by emotion.

[billvon 2,400]

>But isn't the right to practice your religion also guaranteed?

No. The constitution explicitly says that Congress shall not pass ANY law respecting any establishment of religion. So they can't guarantee your right to practice it; neither can they deny you the right to practice it. All they can do is leave you alone with respect to religion.

>There has to be a line of common sense and respect drawn
>somewhere...

Yes, and I think the 200 foot thing is a reasonable place to draw that line.

[briguy 0]

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So they're protesting homosexuality, by interfering with military funerals.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...

i didn't say it made sense, but if you're going to complain at least get your facts straight.

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Are you in favor of allowing this to occur? You didn't answer the first time I asked. Since you started this thread with a protest against the law, you shouldn't be afraid to give a direct "yes" or "no" answer. Please do so.

Check the very first sentence of mine in this thread, rocket scientist.

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[airtwardo 6]

neither can they deny you the right to practice it.

***

Granted it a stretch, but isn't 'allowing' the disruption' of that practice in effect denying your right to?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[billvon 2,400]

>but isn't 'allowing' the disruption' of that practice in effect denying your right to?

Yes, and the government has no right to do that. But we're talking about some asshole protesters, not the government. Remember, the constitution primarily lays out what the _government_ can and can't do, rather than what the people can and can't do. Remember the tenth amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[DJL 232]

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eroding freedom

I don't give a flying fuck. Pursuit of happiness, bitches. And I won't be happy if some quack job is protesting at my friend's funeral.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Skyrad 0]

Hey if it makes them happy who are you to stop them? (Just using your logic here)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[DJL 232]

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Hey if it makes them happy who are you to stop them?

I can punch them in the face harder than they can punch me. That's who I am.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,400]

>I can punch them in the face harder than they can punch me.

And then they shoot you in self defense, and they will walk. Or they record everything in great detail, get the police to arrest you, and turn your assault into the biggest case since OJ Simpson. In either case, they will get all the press coverage they will ever want. Consider if that's the legacy you want to leave behind.

They WANT violence. They are praying every night for someone like you to come along and give them everything they ever dreamed of. You really want to give them that?

[warpedskydiver 0]

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>I can punch them in the face harder than they can punch me.

And then they shoot you in self defense, and they will walk. Or they record everything in great detail, get the police to arrest you, and turn your assault into the biggest case since OJ Simpson. In either case, they will get all the press coverage they will ever want. Consider if that's the legacy you want to leave behind.

They WANT violence. They are praying every night for someone like you to come along and give them everything they ever dreamed of. You really want to give them that?

Too bad they just don't get killed in a random driveby....violence is everywhere

[DJL 232]

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They WANT violence. They are praying every night for someone like you to come along and give them everything they ever dreamed of. You really want to give them that?

Thus defining "disturbing the peace." They are doing something that could very easily escalate. No, I would never actually walk up and punch someone in the face...although I came close when I was at a burial at Arlington Cemetary and this lady answered her cell phone and started talking. Man, that fried my tits!

So what that this event doesn't fall neatly into some existing law or comply completely with every tenet of our constitution. It's a unique situation and I don't think anyone here is going to stand at a funeral and be content that it's someone's right to cause a slanderous scene. It's ignorant to say that it should be allowed just because of a loose interpretation of a 200 year old document.

Edit: It seems like what is really eroding away is common sense.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,400]

>It's ignorant to say that it should be allowed just because of a
>loose interpretation of a 200 year old document.

Given how many people have died in defense of that 200 year old document, I don't think that protecting it is ignorant. It would surely be ironic to have a US soldier die defending it, only to have his funeral be a place it is violated.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I can believe that it is totally wrong that the Phelch Phelps cult is protesting at funerals, and STILL believe that it should be allowed by the government.

Just because someone is doing something wrong, it doesn't necessarily follow that it should be stopped by government action. Sometimes it should, sometimes not.

Speed Racer
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[briguy 0]

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It would surely be ironic to have a US soldier die defending it, only to have his funeral be a place it is violated.

in my opinion, that is exactly what happened with the passage of the illinois law.

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[miked10270 0]

One thing which DOES surprise me, given that there's a bunch of idiots like the Landover Westboro Baptist Church, is the absence of a bunch of counter-idiots!

I'd kinda expected by now that the members of this church would be located, and... There was a 24 hour noisy protest right outside their homes!

After all... Under your beloved Constitution there's a right to free speech... But is there a right to free sleep!?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[DJL 232]

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Given how many people have died in defense of that 200 year old document, I don't think that protecting it is ignorant. It would surely be ironic to have a US soldier die defending it, only to have his funeral be a place it is violated.

To repeat what I tacked onto my last post, it's more like common sense is being eroded than someone's right to protest; the common sense being that a person and their family should be given privacy and dignity. We protect the spirit of that document, not the pure legalism of it. That's what I see as the violation at this soldier's burial. These people are doing something that is calculated, mean, and rude.

The concept is unique and new but just because someone didn't forsee this when they wrote about freedom of speech, doesn't mean it should not be specifically addressed.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,400]

>I'd kinda expected by now that the members of this church would be
> located, and... There was a 24 hour noisy protest right outside their
> homes!

Now that's an excellent idea! Or perhaps just outside their church. Anyone here from Topeka, Kansas?

[steveorino 7]

They had a small faction representing themselves at Specialist Quinton's funeral in Sapulpa, OK. I had made my mind up that if I saw them I would simply approach them and remind them, that men like Brian died to give them their right to protest. (no punching them out as I pondered in other threads) By the time the funeral was over they were no where in sight. Perhaps it was the 100 or so Patriot Guard that made them to decide to move, or more likely it was self preservation. I think they may have realized when 2000 people lined the streets waving flags and saluting the funeral procession, that perhaps Oklahoma was not a good place to pull their BS. A lot of pick ups with guns in the racks here. Either way,I never saw them. I'm glad. My best intentions may have been hard to keep.

steveOrino

[mikeat10500 9]

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They had a small faction representing themselves at Specialist Quinton's funeral in Sapulpa, OK. I had made my mind up that if I saw them I would simply approach them and remind them, that men like Brian died to give them their right to protest. (no punching them out as I pondered in other threads) By the time the funeral was over they were no where in sight. Perhaps it was the 100 or so Patriot Guard that made them to decide to move, or more likely it was self preservation. I think they may have realized when 2000 people lined the streets waving flags and saluting the funeral procession, that perhaps Oklahoma was not a good place to pull their BS. A lot of pick ups with guns in the racks here. Either way,I never saw them. I'm glad. My best intentions may have been hard to keep.

Anyone protesting at a military funeral only serves to divide Americans...When one American fails to show respect for another they become divided....and easy to conquer.
Black,White, Hispanic, strait, gay, whatever...you better get together as a nation soon and learn to respect each other as brothers in a great country.
If not your history will be to short to remember.

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Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.