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JohnRich 4
QuoteWhy don't you just move to a nicer neighborhood, like the south side of Chicago?
I'm in a nice neighborhood. But I'm not going to live like a hermit, and I travel all over.
JohnRich 4
QuoteQuoteI was stuck in traffic in the city. A car bumped the car in front...just a little fender bender. The guy in front got out of the car with a club and started walking toward the guy who hit him....looking like he planned to crush his skull. Another bystander got out of his truck with a gun. Held it low and ready and yelled at the guy to stop and get back in his car. He did, and drove of.
In one of the former gun threads, I tried to explain why I am strictly against private weapon ownership... This situation exactly shows that any idiot holding a gun in his hands would be able to solve such a simple and harmless situation with violence... Thanks for the proof.
Thanks for the proof, once again, that your messages are absolutely void of any logic or sanity.
If you are against private ownership of guns why do you have them? You do have them right?
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
Quoteyea, you and i can handle a fender bender without weapons. The point you're missing is....you can't control how OTHER PEOPLE will handle it. Are you trying to tell me that no one ever reacts to anything with violence in Germany?
Or are you advocating the banning of sticks?
Why was it a horror for the man with the gun to save the other person from being beaten with a club? Should everyone just have stood around and watched him get his head smashed in? Is that more pallatable to you?
No. No. No.
This level of violence just b/c of a simple incident in daily lifetime makes me shudder. That's all. I never ever in my lifetime as a citizen, a driver, had the need to defend myself with anything while being on highway, while driving in the inner city. That's so far away from my imagination.
I CANNOT control the behaviour of others. That is correct. But, it's so rare that f. e. in daily traffic we need to crack each others heads or have to pull out our guns just b/c of a simple little crash.... sorry. That's not my environment. I never saw it, I simply cannot imagine it will happen here.
Period.
There is violence here in Germany, that's for sure. Just the imagination I should pull out my Mauser98 to clarify a situation in the street makes me laugh... really laugh! No one here would think about pullung out a club, a gun, shit like that! For what? A broken wind shield? A broken antenna on my car? Holy crab, I hope we never will have these situations: A little crash and suddenly there are some weapons pointing at each other!
Go away with that. Caress your guns and leave us antiquated countries alone. 
dudeist skydiver # 3105
billvon 2,476
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>looking like he planned to crush his skull. Another bystander got
>out of his truck with a gun.
Sounds like the situation ended without incident because the first driver did not have a gun as well.
I think that if I were in such a situation I would run, then call the cops. Even if I had a gun I wouldn't use it, because I don't really care to shoot someone who I can run from.
I've got nothing against gun ownership. But when people start advocating gun use to promote safety while driving, I am reminded of jumpers who advocate using cypreses because then you can do any foolish thing you want in the sky and be assured your cypres will save you if something goes wrong. Such people end up dead more often than your average skydiver, even if they have that magic box.
>out of his truck with a gun.
Sounds like the situation ended without incident because the first driver did not have a gun as well.
I think that if I were in such a situation I would run, then call the cops. Even if I had a gun I wouldn't use it, because I don't really care to shoot someone who I can run from.
I've got nothing against gun ownership. But when people start advocating gun use to promote safety while driving, I am reminded of jumpers who advocate using cypreses because then you can do any foolish thing you want in the sky and be assured your cypres will save you if something goes wrong. Such people end up dead more often than your average skydiver, even if they have that magic box.
QuoteIf you are against private ownership of guns why do you have them? You do have them right?
Yes. I do. I am a hunter.
Big difference. Do not ask me, I will not explain more, as I already did several times. If you want to know details, do a search.
dudeist skydiver # 3105
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QuoteI think that if I were in such a situation I would run, then call the cops. Even if I had a gun I wouldn't use it, because I don't really care to shoot someone who I can run from.
I'm a non-violent person, but I don't believe in being intimidated or terrorized either. Disregarding the fact that there are fat people, or crippled people that can't run, I don't want to run. I don't want to be at the mercy of any thug with a stick and have to run and hide when confronted by a criminal. I wouldn't want to ever have to shoot anyone, but I don't want to be a victim either.
billvon 2,476
>I don't want to run.
And thus you carry a gun, to enable you to stay in dangerous situations without running.
A cypres can do the same thing for people. They don't want to sit out the skydive because it's a low timer zoo load, so they make sure their cypres is on and get in the plane, confident that their cypres will save them. And while it may well save them, I think that makes them less safe overall.
And thus you carry a gun, to enable you to stay in dangerous situations without running.
A cypres can do the same thing for people. They don't want to sit out the skydive because it's a low timer zoo load, so they make sure their cypres is on and get in the plane, confident that their cypres will save them. And while it may well save them, I think that makes them less safe overall.
PerfidiousQuoteQuoteIf you are against private ownership of guns why do you have them? You do have them right?
Yes. I do. I am a hunter.
Big difference. Do not ask me, I will not explain more, as I already did several times. If you want to know details, do a search.
Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.
Yes, I know.
Hinterlistig. Ne fiese Möp.
dudeist skydiver # 3105
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Quote>I don't want to run.
And thus you carry a gun, to enable you to stay in dangerous situations without running.
A cypres can do the same thing for people. They don't want to sit out the skydive because it's a low timer zoo load, so they make sure their cypres is on and get in the plane, confident that their cypres will save them. And while it may well save them, I think that makes them less safe overall.
BZZZTTTT. Sometimes when skydiving, on what you think is a safe dive...things can go to shit. That's when an AAD can save you and that's why it's used.
Sometimes when going through life, doing a normal thing like driving down the street....things can go to shit. That's when having a means of defense can save you, and that's why it's used.
Don't presume to know why I do the things I do. If you want to know, ask. But you can't tell me why I choose to use an AAD or carry a defensive weapon.
billvon 2,476
>Sometimes when skydiving, on what you think is a safe dive...things can go to shit.
Right. They go to shit more often on unsafe dives. AAD's give people the confidence to go on unsafe dives.
A while back AggieDave was sitting at an ATM. An unsavory character approached. AD felt threatened. He could have driven off, but instead he showed his gun. The gun gave him the confidence to stay in a dangerous situation.
I have nothing against gun ownership. Like AAD's, they can be a backup for good judgement. Like AAD's, some people use them to replace good judgement. And those people are less safe as a result.
Right. They go to shit more often on unsafe dives. AAD's give people the confidence to go on unsafe dives.
A while back AggieDave was sitting at an ATM. An unsavory character approached. AD felt threatened. He could have driven off, but instead he showed his gun. The gun gave him the confidence to stay in a dangerous situation.
I have nothing against gun ownership. Like AAD's, they can be a backup for good judgement. Like AAD's, some people use them to replace good judgement. And those people are less safe as a result.
Michele 1
In one neighborhood I lived in, way back when I was a youngster and pretty poor, crime was rampant. I didn't have a gun (I couldn't afford it), and the cops were not as responsive as they are where I live now.
One evening, in mid summer, as I was cooking dinner and watching the street (my apartment faced an intersection in the residential streets), I saw a little girl. She mustn't have been more than 7 - 8 at best. A car pulled over and the driver reached out, grabbed her hand, and tried to pull her in. She fought, bravely and hard, and screamed. I grabbed the frying pan (a big, heavy cast iron skillet), dinner flying over the floor, and bolted out of my home. Down the stairs I ran, hollering the entire time (and anyone who knows me knows I'm a somewhat larger woman, with a voice to match.). Into the street, across the street, and blam, the skillet crashed down on his hood. And then his windshield. I grabbed the little girl, yanked her hard enough to leave bruises on her (for which I will be eternally sorry...but it was better than the alternative), and raised the skillet with his hands/arm/shoulder in sight. He fled.
The neighbor called the cops as this was going on, told them there was a kidnapping in progress, gave the plate and description. She even told them about me whacking his car.
More than an hour later, the cops hadn't arrived. I decided to walk the little girl home, and wait for the cops. She needed to be with her mother, not me. And she needed to be inside, as it was getting dark.
I called them again, from my home this time. I asked them to come out and at least take a report. At midnight, I recieve a call back from the new shift lieutenant. Can someone come and take a report now? was the question. Sure and why not; the dude in the car was probably in NV by that time, but what the hell.
There is a "rest" of this story, including an arrest of the bad guy with a child he had raped and disfigured...but that isn't the point.
The point is that a bad guy was doing a very bad thing, calls were made to the cops, and the only protection this child had was a woman with a frying pan. That is not something which should ever be counted on. Ever.
I know that cops don't get there in time most of the time...and I further know that it is up to me to protect myself and those around me however I can until (and if) they come. I have been put on hold with 911...can you imagine someone breaking into your home and getting put on hold with the police? Not a pretty imagining...
I am also pro-choice; as Johnrich said, it's the same principle. Personal freedom with personal responsibility.
I advocate guns in the home with the proper teaching of handling to the owners, their children, and locking them up during parties and other social events...making them not available to any Tom, Dick and/or Harry that chooses to come to a party and go snooping.
Ciels-
Michele
~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~
One evening, in mid summer, as I was cooking dinner and watching the street (my apartment faced an intersection in the residential streets), I saw a little girl. She mustn't have been more than 7 - 8 at best. A car pulled over and the driver reached out, grabbed her hand, and tried to pull her in. She fought, bravely and hard, and screamed. I grabbed the frying pan (a big, heavy cast iron skillet), dinner flying over the floor, and bolted out of my home. Down the stairs I ran, hollering the entire time (and anyone who knows me knows I'm a somewhat larger woman, with a voice to match.). Into the street, across the street, and blam, the skillet crashed down on his hood. And then his windshield. I grabbed the little girl, yanked her hard enough to leave bruises on her (for which I will be eternally sorry...but it was better than the alternative), and raised the skillet with his hands/arm/shoulder in sight. He fled.
The neighbor called the cops as this was going on, told them there was a kidnapping in progress, gave the plate and description. She even told them about me whacking his car.
More than an hour later, the cops hadn't arrived. I decided to walk the little girl home, and wait for the cops. She needed to be with her mother, not me. And she needed to be inside, as it was getting dark.
I called them again, from my home this time. I asked them to come out and at least take a report. At midnight, I recieve a call back from the new shift lieutenant. Can someone come and take a report now? was the question. Sure and why not; the dude in the car was probably in NV by that time, but what the hell.
There is a "rest" of this story, including an arrest of the bad guy with a child he had raped and disfigured...but that isn't the point.
The point is that a bad guy was doing a very bad thing, calls were made to the cops, and the only protection this child had was a woman with a frying pan. That is not something which should ever be counted on. Ever.
I know that cops don't get there in time most of the time...and I further know that it is up to me to protect myself and those around me however I can until (and if) they come. I have been put on hold with 911...can you imagine someone breaking into your home and getting put on hold with the police? Not a pretty imagining...
I am also pro-choice; as Johnrich said, it's the same principle. Personal freedom with personal responsibility.
I advocate guns in the home with the proper teaching of handling to the owners, their children, and locking them up during parties and other social events...making them not available to any Tom, Dick and/or Harry that chooses to come to a party and go snooping.
Ciels-
Michele
~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~
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I know you advocate running away from trouble. I think it's a bad idea to turn my back on someone who means me harm. I believe it is SAFER to stand your ground, well prepared to defend yourself, than to turn and run.
Turning your back on someone confronting you with a knife or gun is stupid. And unless you're the fastest person in the world, running from anyone who means you harm is a bad idea.
Turning your back on someone confronting you with a knife or gun is stupid. And unless you're the fastest person in the world, running from anyone who means you harm is a bad idea.
QuoteOne evening, in mid summer, as I was cooking dinner and watching the street (my apartment faced an intersection in the residential streets), I saw a little girl. She mustn't have been more than 7 - 8 at best. A car pulled over and the driver reached out, grabbed her hand, and tried to pull her in. She fought, bravely and hard, and screamed. I grabbed the frying pan (a big, heavy cast iron skillet), dinner flying over the floor, and bolted out of my home. Down the stairs I ran, hollering the entire time (and anyone who knows me knows I'm a somewhat larger woman, with a voice to match.). Into the street, across the street, and blam, the skillet crashed down on his hood. And then his windshield. I grabbed the little girl, yanked her hard enough to leave bruises on her (for which I will be eternally sorry...but it was better than the alternative), and raised the skillet with his hands/arm/shoulder in sight. He fled.
Note to self....Never get Michele mad at me with a frying pan near
If the kidnappers would have had a gun frying pan or not....Pop, pop, your dead. However had you had a shotgun you might have be able to detain the kidnappers for police.
rehmwa 2
QuoteTurning your back on someone confronting you with a knife or gun is stupid. And unless you're the fastest person in the world, running from anyone who means you harm is a bad idea.
And running from them demonstrates that they have the power and encourages them to continue their behavior. But that's ok, it's someone else's problem once you run. That other person could be an elderly person, a child, etc or just another human.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
The spectator at the car accident was a decent person. Michelle was a decent person in her scenario also. Still, that's opportunity, I don't believe a decent person will buy a gun for the express reason to go looking for excuses to save someone. But if they have one and choose to respond, why is that any different from running up to an attacker and stopping them with a frying pan or by hand?
Why is this any different than taking martial arts classes? Maybe along with pointy sticks we should ban self defense classes too..... We can always run, the hell with granny losing her purse and getting smacked to the pavement, she should have run, too.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
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To be fair, Bill never advocated banning guns. Rather he expresses the opinion that you can avoid or run from any trouble that you may encounter and therefore don't need them.
QuoteTo be fair, Bill never advocated banning guns. Rather he expresses the opinion that you can avoid or run from any trouble that you may encounter and therefore don't need them.
At least he is consistent with his philosophy.
rehmwa 2
QuoteTo be fair, Bill never advocated banning guns.
To be fair, my post wasn't about banning or not banning guns either (the last sentence was just sarcasm, what little meat in there was up front). Rather it was also about what I think of running as a being a crappy option in many cases. Running is a simplistic argument.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Or are you advocating the banning of sticks?
Why was it a horror for the man with the gun to save the other person from being beaten with a club? Should everyone just have stood around and watched him get his head smashed in? Is that more pallatable to you?
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