Have you ever Noticed?

[Salsa_John 0]

I will say first that I hold no ill toward any group of people based on color religion, sexual preference or other defining characteristics. I am only expressing my disbelief regarding current events and I remain objective.

that a certain group of people targets all other religions for obliteration?

that they say they are persecuted despite they are allowed to freely worship, own copies of their religious materials when it is they that persecute, kill, imprison, blow up, beat, destroy places of worship of members of ALL other religions?

FROM THE KORAN ITSELF...


You may already know about this one: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

But did you know that there are 123 verses in the Quran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah? Here are but a few passages:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause.

- Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101). Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them. They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90). "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193). "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).
Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

- Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise...

"There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"

It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of God."

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Darius11 12]

You know there is similar material in all religious books man not just the Koran.

You can just concentrate on that if you like but then you will only be seeing what you want to see as many do.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Salsa_John 0]

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You know there is similar material in all religious books man not just the Koran.

You can just concentrate on that if you like but then you will only be seeing what you want to see as many do.

I agree. I do look at all sides.
But let us look at who is doing the bombing. When was the last time a Mosque was suicide bombed during worship service? When was the last time anyone was beaten and imprisioned for owning a Koran? In the US, we call that those hate crimes.

Christians are routinely beaten, killed and imprisoned in the Muslim world.

I would agree with you except for the fact that it is members of the muslim religion that are bombing churches, police stations, hospitals, job centers, even mosques, power plants, water plants, food distribution centers, pizza parlors, discoteques, schools....

no group is totally innocent but the bombings need to stop.

change can happen through productive discourse and positive actions.

Do all the deaths really mean so little?

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[beowulf 1]

No other group seems to take this rhetoric quite as serously as they do.

Although in my opinion there will always be groups of people pissed off at everyone else and willing to kill and die to make their point. There is nothing that the US Gov. could have done differently to prevent Al Qaeda or any other such group from being pissed off and wrecking havoc.

[CornishChris 5]

Are we to assume that you have diligently researched this yourself and have verified each statement for it's accuracy.

If not then you are pandering to propoganda from others peddling their own agenda and this acheives nothing.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[lawrocket 3]

The Catholic Church had its Crusades. The Muslims are in the midst of their Crusades right now.

In another few years/decades they'll stop it, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,476]

>But let us look at who is doing the bombing. When was the last
>time a Mosque was suicide bombed during worship service?

If a Muslim country had successfully invaded the US, and was killing US citizens on a daily basis, not only would we be suicide bombing mosques, we'd be considering the people who did it heroes. And all the Muslims would be talking about the Bible being the 'book of death' and quoting the passages that tell christians to kill, kill, kill.

We forget what it's like to be weak because we have been strong for so long.

[Darius11 12]

You were quoting the Koran so I just wanted to make the point that’s it’s not the book that is at fault but the people who claim to follow it.

I think other religions have grown in time and have changed, or the followers (at least most) know better then to follow every word. There are many Christians out there who believe in their Christianity but they don’t go out and kill gays because their book says so.

I wish all the terrorism stops today and the people who are responsible for the murders pay for their crimes.

To me they’re not Muslims but mislead ignorant imposters. Islam is about justice. There is no justice served in killing people trying to go to fucking work or home.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Salsa_John 0]

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Are we to assume that you have diligently researched this yourself and have verified each statement for it's accuracy.

Those are direct "attributed" quotes from the Q' uran

Have we not grown more mature and peaceful at all as a species since the crusades? Are we now not able to have a discussion instead of a bombing? Or are individuals just choosing violence instead of peace?

I personally would be more open to someone who talked to me instead of taking down two buildings full of people.

FYI My sister in law works for a bank credit card center in the north east. After 9-11 happend, She told me before 9-11 that hundreds of families closed out their accounts because they were moving back to various muslim countries (We know because they gave forwarding addresses for their last bills).

I will make no conclusions regarding her statement. It seems strange to me.

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Salsa_John 0]

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You were quoting the Koran so I just wanted to make the point that’s it’s not the book that is at fault but the people who claim to follow it.

I think other religions have grown in time and have changed, or the followers (at least most) know better then to follow every word. There are many Christians out there who believe in their Christianity but they don’t go out and kill gays because their book says so.

I wish all the terrorism stops today and the people who are responsible for the murders pay for their crimes.

To me they’re not Muslims but mislead ignorant imposters. Islam is about justice. There is no justice served in killing people trying to go to fucking work or home.

I agree with you, totally

I don't think you can tell me there are no people who know where these imposters are. Then please explain why they don't turn these destroyers of innocent lives in. If it is the few that are causing the problems why are not the many rising up to say STOP!? Why are not the Imam's rising up in Unison saying this is not the way of Islam?

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Ron 7]

The bible says the same things.

It says to kill non believers.
It says to kill gays.
It says to stone you child to death if they disobey.
It says to sacrifice for God.

The difference is that MOST Christians/Jews don't follow the Bible.

Some still do...Those that claim they are killing Abortion Dr's in the name of "God".

Desperate people do desperate deeds.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Salsa_John 0]

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The bible says the same things.

It says to kill non believers.
It says to kill gays.
It says to stone you child to death if they disobey.
It says to sacrifice for God.

The difference is that MOST Christians/Jews don't follow the Bible.

Some still do...Those that claim they are killing Abortion Dr's in the name of "God".

Desperate people do desperate deeds.

This is true as well.

However, people have turned these people in and the government prosecutes them.

My point is, again, no group is totally innocent of evil, but based on a review of all sources muslims are given more freedom from persecution and harm than they give other religions.

In Saudi Arabia, one of the more modern Arab countries, there are numerous instances of persons being beaten and imprisoned for owning bibles.

How is this just?

Would the deity of any religion really want us to kill each other? would it not want us to live in peace and harmony worshiping it and serving the poor?

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[beowulf 1]

Why would you want to say anything in their defence?

This didn't start with the invasion of Iraq and would not stop with the US troops leaving Iraq. You make it sound like all they are trying to do is defend their country against an invader. That is far from the truth.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Why would you want to say anything in their defence?

This didn't start with the invasion of Iraq and would not stop with the US troops leaving Iraq. You make it sound like all they are trying to do is defend their country against an invader. That is far from the truth.

I don't think Bill was defending terrorists. But trying to rationally understand the thought process going behind someone committing such acts can help defending against it in the long term. One person's terrorism is usually another's heroism.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[billvon 2,476]

>Why would you want to say anything in their defence?

Not defending them. But there are people here who, if the situations were reversed, would be hailing the people bombing mosques as strongly as they are condemning these terrorists.

Aggression is always the wrong way to solve your problems. There are those who believe that as long as it is in favor of _their_ ideology, it is just fine. That is a double edged sword.

[Thunderbow 1]

***
The Catholic Church had its Crusades. The Muslims are in the midst of their Crusades right now.

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The Crusades were in response to Muslims that had already forcefully taken over half of the Christian world. HALF of the Christian world, not a few incidents of extremists, HALF of the Christian world at the time.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am.

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[Thunderbow 1]

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The bible says the same things.

It says to kill non believers.
---WHERE?
It says to kill gays.
----WHERE?
It says to stone you child to death if they disobey.
----WHERE?
It says to sacrifice for God.
-----SACRIFICE WHAT?

The difference is that MOST Christians/Jews don't follow the Bible.
----MOST? HOW MANY DO YOU KNOW THAT DON'T.

Some still do...Those that claim they are killing Abortion Dr's in the name of "God".
-----HOW MANY HAVE DONE THIS (not that it is right)? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY MUSLIM TERRORISTS?

Desperate people do desperate deeds.
----DESPERATE PEOPLE USE DESPERATE AND EXAGERATED WORDS.

Note: caps are not meant as yelling, just to show my reply.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am.

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[Darius11 12]

The main problem is there is no democracy in the Middle East.
Most of the governments (some that we support) are corrupt and have absolute power.
In some areas the terrorist groups are stronger then the government forces.

It is difficult to ask people to stand up when they will be killed, or tortured, and the same would be done to there families.

Plus people make mistakes let’s not forget who we have supported in the past.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Casurf1978 0]

Good points Ron. Would you also say that since in some middle eastern countries religion and government are married that it in a way justifies these terrorist attacks. They would missinterpert statements from the Quran as justifiable acts in order to protect their country and way of life.

I'm not saying the recent attacks are justifiable or picking on the mid east and Islam. Just trying to take a look at this from a different perspective.

[Darius11 12]

Some still do...Those that claim they are killing Abortion Dr's in the name of "God".
-----HOW MANY HAVE DONE THIS (not that it is right)? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY MUSLIM TERRORISTS?

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You are looking with a lot of bias


How many people in Muslim countries have been killed or there lives seriously effected by the actions of the UK and the USA?

You don’t see any one attacking the Vatican now do you?
They also didn’t bomb a church but the most significant symbol of American business the stock exchange.

Then ask how many British and Americans have been killed by the actions of terrorist?

I think you will find we have killed a lot more of the Muslims world then they have killed of the western world.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

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[Salsa_John 0]

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The main problem is there is no democracy in the Middle East.
Most of the governments (some that we support) are corrupt and have absolute power.
In some areas the terrorist groups are stronger then the government forces.

It is difficult to ask people to stand up when they will be killed, or tortured, and the same would be done to there families.

Plus people make mistakes let’s not forget who we have supported in the past.

I agree.

You said difficult not impossible. In our war of independence we stood up. Against Hitler we stood up. Against slavery we stood up.

Why can not not all good people stand up for what is right?

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[Frenchy68 0]

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Why can not not all good people stand up for what is right?

They usually do, don' they?

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[Salsa_John 0]

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Some still do...Those that claim they are killing Abortion Dr's in the name of "God".
-----HOW MANY HAVE DONE THIS (not that it is right)? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY MUSLIM TERRORISTS?

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You are looking with a lot of bias


How many people in Muslim countries have been killed or there lives seriously effected by the actions of the UK and the USA?

You don’t see any one attacking the Vatican now do you?
They also didn’t bomb a church but the most significant symbol of American business the stock exchange.

Then ask how many British and Americans have been killed by the actions of terrorist?

I think you will find we have killed a lot more of the Muslims world then they have killed of the western world.

So are you saying 2 wrongs make a right?

Evil begets evil. If anyone lowers themselves to an evil person's level do they not, themselves, become evil?

If we all said enough is enough, there would be pain and death in the beginning, but soon things would be better.

All good Men (humans) should choose words over violence whenever possible.

I think the bombings are entirely avoidable if the ones carrying them out chose not to.

Just as most people in the world choose kindess over hatred. So can those who choose death over life.

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

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[chuckbrown 0]

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>But let us look at who is doing the bombing. When was the last
>time a Mosque was suicide bombed during worship service?

If a Muslim country had successfully invaded the US, and was killing US citizens on a daily basis, not only would we be suicide bombing mosques, we'd be considering the people who did it heroes. And all the Muslims would be talking about the Bible being the 'book of death' and quoting the passages that tell christians to kill, kill, kill.

We forget what it's like to be weak because we have been strong for so long.

The US has fought several wars on its soil. The colonists fought against the Brits in the Revoluntionary War. The US fought against the Brits in the War of 1812. The US was engaged in a very long war with the Plains Indians. The southern US states fought against a Union invasion lasting 3 years. I haven't heard of 1 incident where an American has engaged in "suicide bombing." We're much smarter than that. Suicide bombers are just too stupid to do anything without killing themselves in the process.

Didn't you see Red Dawn?

[Darius11 12]

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You said difficult not impossible. In our war of independence we stood up. Against Hitler we stood up. Against slavery we stood up.

Because there was not a strong government standing against you and we had help from the French.

I can tell you about Iran I don’t know about other countries.
If I go home and try to talk about any thing the government does not like I will be shot imprisoned tortured, and my family might be subjected to the same pain.

There has been more then a few times where Iranian students have stood up they were all shot and killed. The military is very powerful in Iran. The only way that a revaluation would work is if there was a coup de'etat.

As for why people aren’t turning in the terrorist because maybe they don’t know where they are and the one that do are there friends so they would turn them in any way.

I am Muslim but that doesn’t mean I have OBL phone number in my cell.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain