lawrocket 3 #251 June 24, 2005 QuoteSo Rhino, I have to ask - if this amendment passes, and the guy in the pictures below does the same thing again, how many years in jail you think he should get? Bill, that was a great burn! Yes, pun intended... My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #252 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's funny how everything concerning free speech eventually boils down to either fire or urine. Bravo! Wendy W. I managed to use boil/fire/urine in one sentence."Free speech" ---- Whatever happened to the free and respectful exchange of thoughts and ideas using the written and spoken words? I think symbolic gestures are an indication of two things: 1 - too much emotion without thought 2 - the inability to speak clearly on a subject due to point 1 above or lack of understanding of the subject enough (also due to point 1 above) so let's say TV and poor education caused this to be an issue In general, leave my flag alone, go ahead and burn yours if you want, but don't expect me to take anything you do or say seriously after that. I'm yet to hear any case where someone burned a flag in support of something. Only in "support of" protest of something. It's a tool of complainers and whiners and those that don't have solutions, just gripes. But, complainers and whiners have the right to do what they will with their own property. Again, you can't legislate intelligence, courtesy or class. Congress should stop trying. And that's a message for both parties. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #253 June 24, 2005 QuoteAs far as my history books read I don't recall thousands of soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen dying over sauerkraut. Not many people die over a flag. They may die for what it represents. But, it is just a piece of symbolic fabric. QuoteI'm not one to stop someone's freedom of speech but burning the flag should be stopped in my opinion. But then you are stopping someone's freedom of speech. Just because the symbolism of the flag is important to you does not change the fact that burning it does not infringe on your right. It does not change the fact that it is fabric. There are many symbols which are important to all sorts of people. Should we outlaw everything that might be offensive? The burning cross is a good example. I can think of many people who would be much more offended by a burning cross over a burning flag. Should we ban burning a cross because of what it represents? Many people say many offensive things. By beginning to outlaw things that may be offensive, we start to lose a bit of our freedom of speech.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #254 June 24, 2005 QuoteMany people say many offensive things. By beginning to outlaw things that may be offensive, we start to lose a bit of our freedom of speech. It just shows that political correctness has aspects on both sides of the aisle. There are not two parties in the US government. Just two groups that divvy up the issues and suck in the power and money from the rest of us. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #255 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteIt's funny how everything concerning free speech eventually boils down to either fire or urine. Bravo! Wendy W. I once pissed on a fire, the only protesting done at that time was about the smell... illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #256 June 24, 2005 Quoteyou missed the whole point of Freedom I'm afraid while you served you might have missed the point of honor and respect for those that have fought and died before you in uniform.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #257 June 24, 2005 QuoteWhy, just beause YOU say so? Yes. It is my standard. I fight for my standards. Just like I won't let a man hit a women because I SAY SO. It's my belief system and it will be enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #258 June 24, 2005 >I'm afraid while you served you might have missed the point of > honor and respect for those that have fought and died before you >in uniform.. Best ban the burning of uniforms then! Unless you have no honor or respect for those men, of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #259 June 24, 2005 QuoteIt's my belief system and it will be enforced. Thank goodness you're not a dictator!!!! Whew!There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #260 June 24, 2005 QuoteI'm gonna buy and bunch and when I get back, I'm gonna light one up in protest of your most un-American posts. No double standard at all. I support it being against the law. For all we know it will be a $50 fine. In some way IT NEEDS to be against the law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #261 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhy, just beause YOU say so? Yes. It is my standard. I fight for my standards. Just like I won't let a man hit a women because I SAY SO. It's my belief system and it will be enforced. So why should there be an amendment to the US constitution because of YOUR standard? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #262 June 24, 2005 Quote Gotta say....nice one. Desecration could be interpreted as a broad range of things. I've said it once.. I'll say it again for those of you that have selective reading.. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. I said BURNING THE FLAG. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #263 June 24, 2005 QuoteBut, it is just a piece of symbolic fabric. MOST people that never fought for it feel that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #264 June 24, 2005 QuoteBest ban the burning of uniforms then! You crack me up sometimes Bill.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #265 June 24, 2005 QuoteThank goodness you're not a dictator!!!! Whew Yeah.. Thank goodness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #266 June 24, 2005 QuoteSo why should there be an amendment to the US constitution because of YOUR standard? Who do you think wrote the constitution? Men with standards? Is that too difficult for you to grasp or should I break it down for you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #267 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteBut, it is just a piece of symbolic fabric. MOST people that never fought for it feel that way. That's what it technically is. It's just like a pendant of the cross that people wear. It is just metal. It is symbollic. However, throwing it down a toilet wouldn't harm anyone. Yes, many Christians would be offended if you flushed a cross down the toilet. However, it is still an object. You do not hurt anyone by destroying the object. Just because you are offended does not mean it should be outlawed.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #268 June 24, 2005 QuoteThat's what it technically is. True... Technically. But we are talking about honor... Standards. Respect for those that gave you the right to have an opinion. I am loosing and have lost respect for each and every one of you that think burning our flag is acceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #269 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteSo why should there be an amendment to the US constitution because of YOUR standard? Who do you think wrote the constitution? Men with standards? Is that too difficult for you to grasp or should I break it down for you? There were flags around when the constitution was written, if the writers intended for burning flags to be banned, why didn't they write it in then? I don't agree with burning flags, but I do believe people should have the right to do it. I won't like them, but I don't think they should be put in prison because of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #270 June 24, 2005 QuoteQuoteWhy, just beause YOU say so? Yes. It is my standard. I fight for my standards. Just like I won't let a man hit a women because I SAY SO. It's my belief system and it will be enforced. OK, flag #2 going up in smoke right ....now! jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #271 June 24, 2005 QuoteOK, flag #2 going up in smoke right ....now! You want to exercise your free speech.. Goto your local VFW and burn a flag.. I dare you.. Then pm me when you get out of the hospital in a month.. Try explaining to those veterans why burning your flag is acceptable.. You might get a word in edge wise you might not.. I live in Michigan.. You live in Florida. This is not a threat in any way (Billvon). It is a dare. Go to your local VFW and play this game and see if they understand. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #272 June 24, 2005 QuoteThere are obviously quite a few "Bleading Heart Liberals" here. Burn your flags, kill the very soul that the greatest nation on the face of the earth has been based upon for all of our lives. Go ahead and "express" yourselves, your all traitor's inho. It's BS like this that causes the people in other countries to label us with the monikers such as "infidels" "back stabbers" "ugly americans" I'm starting to get an understanding why the rest of the world thinks americans are such assholes, hell, we can't even be loyal to ourselves. That's pathetic. Actually you are wrong, most of the world thinks americans are such assholes for statements like the one you said above: "the greatest nation on the face of the earth" Specially when the majority of those who speak like that have never traveled abroad other than in a military context or a short vacation. Of course that obsession with Money, wars, and oil does not help much to your image. By the way that BS of America love it or leave it, is just that, bullshit. If that ever happened, the true patriots will move to Canada and leave the U.S to root. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #273 June 24, 2005 Quotewhy didn't they write it in then? Because respect, honor and common sense existed then. It isn't in abundance now.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #274 June 24, 2005 Rob, there are few here who think that burning the flag is acceptable, as far as I can tell. There are many who would be mightily offended about it, in fact (me included). But the Constitution says that we have the right to free speech - which includes freedom of expression (meaning protest, art work, writing, and any other aspect of expression which does not include vocality). If the Constitution says we (meaning everyone, not just select few) have the right to express something, however we choose, within legal means, that right extends to the burning of the flag. It is a form of expression. Would I do it? Oh hell no. Would I stand idly by and let another do it? Oh hell no again. But when it becomes illegal to express oneself by whatever lawful means is guaranteed by the Constitution, then I get worried. Have you ever heard the expression: I hate what you say, but I'll fight to the death to make sure you can say it? That is the crux of the matter. It's the freedom to say/express oneself - which includes other people saying things I don't agree with and which offends me deeply - that the flag, in part, represents. In the end, it is a symbol of lots of things - and what the flag stands for, I respect and honor deeply. Seeing a flag snap in the breeze of a late afternoon splashed against the brilliant blue sky, man, that's a cool sight; but what it means - the right to say what I think, the right of others to say what they think without fear of recrimination and punishment...that's what people are saying. And I respect your right, Rob, to be as angry and vocal about the flag burning, and to support whatever ammendment and/or resolution you choose. That's what freedom of expression is about. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #275 June 24, 2005 QuoteI am loosing and have lost respect for each and every one of you that think burning our flag is acceptable. Okay, Rhino. I took a few logic classes. So, let me help you out. There's a population called USA. People who burn flags are a subset of this; let's call their subset A. There is a larger subset of people who are okay with anyone burning flags; let's call this subset B. All A is included in B, but not all B is included in A. There is an even larger subset (probably the majority) who think that flag burning should be legal; let's call this subset C. All of B is in C, but not all of C is in B. You can think that flag burning should be legal (just like it's legal for members of the KKK to speak) without thinking it's acceptable. You can be offended but not wish things to be illegal. Burning a flag does not infringe on your rights. It does not cause bodily harm. It does not cause you financial harm.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
