Zenister 0
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skydyvr 0
QuoteI have have so many drug tests I lost count.
As a student of psychology, I have to ask:
When you hear the airtight seal breaking on small tupperware containers, do you get the urge to pee?
. . =(_8^(1)
sfzombie13 307
QuoteQuoteWell, I have already stated I don't agree with random testing for recreational activities.
An employer has the right, just as you have the right not to apply for a job that requires it.
this is the attitude that is wrong with the problem today. it is not the right of the employer to test for drugs for employment, i believe that until the 80's it was unconstitutional and then the whole drug war started. i would never submit to a drug test for anyone again, except employment, and i pass every one and get high whenever i want to after work. i would not get high before jumping any quicker than 99.9% of skydivers wouldn't drink a beer and jump._________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
tmontana 0
QuoteAn employer has the right, just as you have the right not to apply for a job that requires it.
Ron, just wondering (and when i say just wondering, i mean just wondering and am not trying to be sarcastic in the least). Do you also believe that an employer has the right to make sure employees are not breaking any other laws.
For instance, would it be ok to fire someone for doing any of the following:
Drinking and driving
Shoplifting
Domestic Abuse
Speeding
Having anal sex (illegal in many states)
(pick any misdemeanor or civil infraction)
Although i agree an employer has a right to have his employees not break ANY laws during work do they have a right to demand you don't break ANY outside of work even if performance at work is not affected.
Now i know one can say well work can be affected by breaking the law, let's say its not. Let's say work performance remains the same as any other employee. Does an employer still have the right to require that their employees not break the law in their private time.
I ask because this is something that i'm a bit torn about. The right of the individual employer to hire as the please vs. the right of privacy to an employee.
___________________________________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
Jimbo 0
QuoteAlthough i agree an employer has a right to have his employees not break ANY laws during work do they have a right to demand you don't break ANY outside of work even if performance at work is not affected.
What if the employer's reputation is?
-
Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.
Ron 7
Quotethis is the attitude that is wrong with the problem today. it is not the right of the employer to test for drugs for employment
Sure it is, it is even legal.
Its called my right to employ people who are not criminals.
If you have a company feel free to have "bake" meetings.
Thats your company, and your business.
My company, I will employ who I want within the law.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
Ron 7
QuoteRon, just wondering (and when i say just wondering, i mean just wondering and am not trying to be sarcastic in the least). Do you also believe that an employer has the right to make sure employees are not breaking any other laws.
Do they effect work performance?
I don't think it is the companies job to "find" them. But the company has the right to fire them if they are breaking the law.
There was a poster that was supposedly fired for posting from work. Thats the companies right.
My company will not let me be a Moderator on a board. Its in the rules. If I reak the rules and they fire me, thats my fault.
QuoteDrinking and driving
Will get you fired at my job.
QuoteShoplifting
Will get you fired at my job.
QuoteDomestic Abuse
Will get you fired at my job.
QuoteSpeeding
Will get you fired at my job.
QuoteHaving anal sex
Don't think it would get you fired...We have gay people that work here.
If it can effect the job or the company....The company has a right to fire you over it.
If a company wants to have drug testing...It is legal. They should be allowed to do it. An employee is always free to find a job that fits them better.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
I have to side with Ron the most on this one. However, I don't agree with an employer meddling in anybodies private life outside the workplace. Contradicting I know, but sometimes it is best that it happens.
I will use my profession for an example:
The state of North Carolina will revoke my certification if "convicted" of any Domestic Assault. Granted if engaged in a Domestic Assault it should be a private matter, however, how would you feel if a cop was convicted of a Domestic Assault and still allowed to run around with a gun on his/her side both on and off duty. In reality...not possible nor probable.
As far as the topic "Random Drug Testing", I am for it for it for the more simplistic reason. INSURANCE RATES. Workmens comp being the main one. Would you want a "drugie" working for you that slices a finger off, wrecks one of your companies vehicles...ect cause he/she is high or is jonesing. You would require random drug testing as well even if you disagree with it after you find your insurance rates are reduced for instilling the policy. It's not even a choice for some companies, if they don't they can't get insurance. It sucks to a degree, but it is also necessary.
I will use my profession for an example:
The state of North Carolina will revoke my certification if "convicted" of any Domestic Assault. Granted if engaged in a Domestic Assault it should be a private matter, however, how would you feel if a cop was convicted of a Domestic Assault and still allowed to run around with a gun on his/her side both on and off duty. In reality...not possible nor probable.
As far as the topic "Random Drug Testing", I am for it for it for the more simplistic reason. INSURANCE RATES. Workmens comp being the main one. Would you want a "drugie" working for you that slices a finger off, wrecks one of your companies vehicles...ect cause he/she is high or is jonesing. You would require random drug testing as well even if you disagree with it after you find your insurance rates are reduced for instilling the policy. It's not even a choice for some companies, if they don't they can't get insurance. It sucks to a degree, but it is also necessary.
______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Quotethis is the attitude that is wrong with the problem today. it is not the right of the employer to test for drugs for employment
QuoteSorry to inform you that it is my right! Lets take the liberal point of view here. Your a coke head, I hire you and all of a sudden you find your way in life and want to quit doing coke. Now my insurance has to pay for your ass to go through rehab not to mention there are probably bullshit laws that say I have to give you time off work to sit at the Betty Ford clinic while you sober up and gone for 2 months and then I have to give you your job back when you return. If you want to go smoke, snort, shoot, swallow up on the weekend, by all means do so! I just wont have to worry about you working next to me in the field i'm in. I understood when I chose my profession what I was getting into and I plan on living out those rules. If you don't like it, I don't think McDonalds drug tests all that often. Good luck!
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
Another fine example...seriously.
______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
QuoteBut another reason people refuse drug tests is because it goes against their personal principles. It is a fact that drug testing operates on a cycle of presumed potential guilt, and plenty of non-drug using individuals just won't succumb to that.
Quote
Personal Priciples? Oh give me a break! The only people who scream it's against there priciples are the ones who pray to Bob Marley! I don't know a single non-using worker who would refuse to be drug tested for either pre-employment or post accident. The only bitching I hear is when we had to go take a test after an accident where nobody got hurt but did about $30,000 damage to an airplane and the only bitch was that the clinic was way out of the way from going home. So if anybody want to turn down a good career job just because he/she does not want to piss is a bottle so be it. Thats there choice.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
jenfly00 0
QuoteQuoteBut another reason people refuse drug tests is because it goes against their personal principles. It is a fact that drug testing operates on a cycle of presumed potential guilt, and plenty of non-drug using individuals just won't succumb to that.
Quote
Personal Priciples? Oh give me a break! The only people who scream it's against there priciples are the ones who pray to Bob Marley! I don't know a single non-using worker who would refuse to be drug tested for either pre-employment or post accident. The only bitching I hear is when we had to go take a test after an accident where nobody got hurt but did about $30,000 damage to an airplane and the only bitch was that the clinic was way out of the way from going home. So if anybody want to turn down a good career job just because he/she does not want to piss is a bottle so be it. Thats there choice.
Understood, but I wonder how far does that go? How bout if you were forced to disclose your medical history to your employer upon demand? Would that be OK with you?
jen-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
jenfly00 0
QuoteWill get you fired at my job
QuoteWill get you fired at my job
QuoteWill get you fired at my job
QuoteWill get you fired at my job
I don't agree with your arguments, but I would like to take a moment and
express my happiness that you seem to have found, in your employer, a perfect match for
personal philosophy ...a rare thing these days.
Congratulations!
jen
-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
Understood, but I wonder how far does that go? How bout if you were forced to disclose your medical history to your employer upon demand? Would that be OK with you?
jen
Off the subject a little, but a good point.
Can you name one "legitimate" company (career wise) that doesn't require you to provide you Social Security number or tax ID number. It's you right to withhold it but a job your won't have.
______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
QuoteUnderstood, but I wonder how far does that go? How bout if you were forced to disclose your medical history to your employer upon demand? Would that be OK with you?
Quote
Some jobs will require that.I just had to disclose a bunch of stuff to get fitted for respirator gear so we can crawl into fuel tanks and a few guys didnt pass the physical because of either asthma of other respiratory problems. If you have a history of having seizures I dont want you as a truck driver, pilot, or working in a glass factory. On my pre-employment packet it says I must be Fluent in English both verbal and written
• Must be able to see and hear approaching vehicles, aircraft propellers and machinery that could present immediate danger
• Able to routinely lift 75 pounds, climb, bend, kneel, crawl and stoop frequently in confined spaces. I had to have a physical where a doctor said my knees and back were in good shape. So for some a pre-employment physical is a must.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
Ron 7
QuoteI don't agree with your arguments, but I would like to take a moment and
express my happiness that you seem to have found, in your employer, a perfect match for
personal philosophy ...a rare thing these days.
Well we both agree that you are free to do as you please.
We both agree that for everthing in life you choose to do, you have to be willing to pay the price for your actions.
I am a big fan of personal responsibility, so is my employer.
I am free to leave if they don't uphold their part of the deal, they are free to fire me if I don't uphold mine.
BTW I don't have drug tests anymore at work....I am in a staff position now.
I still don't use.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
jenfly00 0
QuoteQuoteUnderstood, but I wonder how far does that go? How bout if you were forced to disclose your medical history to your employer upon demand? Would that be OK with you?
Quote
Some jobs will require that.I just had to disclose a bunch of stuff to get fitted for respirator gear so we can crawl into fuel tanks and a few guys didnt pass the physical because of either asthma of other respiratory problems. If you have a history of having seizures I dont want you as a truck driver, pilot, or working in a glass factory. On my pre-employment packet it says I must be Fluent in English both verbal and written
• Must be able to see and hear approaching vehicles, aircraft propellers and machinery that could present immediate danger
• Able to routinely lift 75 pounds, climb, bend, kneel, crawl and stoop frequently in confined spaces. I had to have a physical where a doctor said my knees and back were in good shape. So for some a pre-employment physical is a must.
Ok, we're beginning to build parameters. Let's say you have a job where you must demonstrate the ability to sit at a desk and move papers. Now, how bout if you were having some problems at home resulting in erectile dysfunction? Perhaps your concern over your limp noodle is creating some stress, anxiety and trouble sleeping? You seek medical attention for these problems. Would your employer have the right to this information on demand?
jen-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
QuoteOk, we're beginning to build parameters. Let's say you have a job where you must demonstrate the ability to sit at a desk and move papers. Now, how bout if you were having some problems at home resulting in erectile dysfunction? Perhaps your concern over your limp noodle is creating some stress, anxiety and trouble sleeping? You seek medical attention for these problems. Would your employer have the right to this information on demand?
Quote
Ok, the examples I gave were directly proportional (hope I didnt use to big of a word there) to the job at hand. What does a limp noodle have to do with him doing his job?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
Quote
Let's say you have a job where you must demonstrate the ability to sit at a desk and move papers. Now, how bout if you were having some problems at home resulting in erectile dysfunction? Perhaps your concern over your limp noodle is creating some stress, anxiety and trouble sleeping? You seek medical attention for these problems. Would your employer have the right to this information on demand?
jen
?
??______________________________________________
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"A radical man is a man with both feet firmly planted in the air."
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt
skydyvr 0
QuoteOh give me a break! The only people who scream it's against there priciples are the ones who pray to Bob Marley!
You are completely incorrect.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the whole world sees things as you see them.
. . =(_8^(1)
QuoteDon't make the mistake of thinking the whole world sees things as you see them.
Quote
Well then they better get there eyes checked!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!
Rick 67
***As far as the topic "Random Drug Testing", I am for it for it for the more simplistic reason. INSURANCE RATES.
This is why most companies have a drug testing policy. Most employers could care less what you do on your own time. I have all my guys sign a paper saying they will take a drug test if asked. I have no intention of ever testing anyone.
But if I caught them smoking pot on the job or if I even smelled it on them they are hsitory.
This is why most companies have a drug testing policy. Most employers could care less what you do on your own time. I have all my guys sign a paper saying they will take a drug test if asked. I have no intention of ever testing anyone.
But if I caught them smoking pot on the job or if I even smelled it on them they are hsitory.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!
it doesnt bother me at all... what bothers me more is that drug testing policies encourage individuals to partake of the substances that are either completely legal (and then take them to an extreme for the same 'effect') or simply difficult to detect by 'standard' testing... ALL of which have a more significant impact/effects on the user and their mental state than the one most 'blamed' ie. Marijuana
i would MUCH rather that my AFF instructor smoked himself to sleep than drank himself into oblivion the night before...... neither of which should be engaged in DURING, but one of which has SIGNIFICANTLY higher long term effects and addiction rates...
random drug testing isnt much more than the 'feel good' measures imposed by the TSA.... it looks good in the headlines, but does very little to make you any safer at all..
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
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