Kennedy 0 #1 December 30, 2004 http://www.lowellsun.com/Stories/0,1413,105~4746~2622453,00.html QuoteShooting policy in question Police: Lowell officer acted in self-defense By REBECCA PIRO, Sun Staff Shoot to stop. That's how Massachusetts police officers are trained to react when they find themselves in a potentially life-threatening situation. And that's just what a Lowell police officer did on Christmas Day, according to Lowell police officials, when he shot and killed 19-year-old Andrew Clancy. The Middlesex District Attorney's Office ruled the Trinity College student's death a homicide yesterday, after an autopsy proved that Clancy died of a single gunshot wound to the chest. The Lowell officer, whom sources have identified as Matthew "Mark" LeBlanc, responded to a 911 call to 232 Methuen St. just after midnight on Christmas Day. Police say Clancy, brandishing a hatchet in one hand and a knife in the other, came at the officer, and the officer shot him. "You have to look at a whole bunch of things in a split second," said Jack Collins, general counsel for the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association, speaking generally about the use of deadly force by police. "There's a lot of things going through the officer's head. And if you wait too long, you could be dead, other people could be dead." The district attorney's office is investigating the shooting with help from the state police. The Lowell Police Department, which is conducting its own internal investigation, has defended its officer, calling the shooting one in self-defense. State law requires that new police officers complete 21 weeks of training at an academy, which includes firearms experience, before going on active duty, Collins said. The law also requires officers to refresh their education by attending 40 hours of training per year. One of the first rules: An officer can use deadly force whenever a person appears to be a threat to him or herself, someone else, or the officer. Because a stressful situation can make it very difficult to hit a target, officers are trained to aim for a suspect's chest the body part with the most mass, Collins said. Besides, he added, when a suspect has adrenaline running through his veins, a gunshot to his extremity may not be enough to stop him. But for some, the violent death of a teenager who had not been known as a troublemaker, calls that philosophy into question. "We're not talking about a bunch of gangsters with guns. We're talking about a 19-year-old kid with a knife and an officer with a gun," said Larissa Matzek, executive director of the nonprofit National Police Accountability Project. "It seems like there would be other ways." Police are not releasing the details of Friday night's confrontation, citing the ongoing investigation. For the same reason, the district attorney's office refused a Sun reporter's request yesterday to release the tape of the 911 call to the Clancys' home. "Every piece of information is useful to us in putting together a complete picture of what happened that night," said DA spokeswoman Emily LaGrassa. "If we're going to conduct a completely thorough investigation, we need to keep all that information private until the investigation is complete." Many police unions also have protocol when it comes to internal investigations, such as guaranteeing that an officer involved in a shooting have an attorney present during even informal questioning. Police departments are trying to become more "sensitive" to the psychological needs of officers involved in such ordeals, Collins said. Lowell Police Superintendent Edward Davis declined to discuss the investigation yesterday, and Clancy's family did not return a phone call to their home.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #2 December 30, 2004 It's a truly sad story. I don't believe, that cop should've waited to see just exactly what the teen was going to do with that hatchet and knife. From the news article, it appears as though, the officer responded in accordance with his training. He did his job. I feel bad for the police officer as well as the kid's family. Both parties, I'm sure, will have a hard time getting over it. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #3 December 30, 2004 I'd give it a few days before getting too pissed off. Strictly defined, calling it a homicide doesn't mean it wasn't justified. I'm sure the DA will look at it, and decide not to press charges. But that Larissa chick definitely needs to go do something more useful with her mouth besides talk bs.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #4 December 30, 2004 "We're not talking about a bunch of gangsters with guns. We're talking about a 19-year-old kid with a knife and an officer with a gun," said Larissa Matzek, executive director of the nonprofit National Police Accountability Project. "It seems like there would be other ways." *** Good grief!!! some people dont realise that a knife or a hatchet are very lethal in close quarters, if the officer waited then sure...... their may have been a different way---the officer could be the dead party. what do they think he was doing with these weapons? was he going to invite the officer over for a beer?..... I dont think so.... some peoples point of view is incredibly strange..... RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TypicalFish 0 #5 December 30, 2004 You know, my brother in law was a PG County (yes, that's Prince George's, Kennedy) policeman, and was involved in a shooting with an armed suspect. One of the first questions he was asked was "Were you fired on first?" Like he was supposed to let the other guy get off a round or two before responding just for a sense of fair play. RIDICULOUS."I gargle no man's balls..." ussfpa on SOCNET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #6 December 30, 2004 Lesson learned: Don't bring a knife to a gun fight!!! "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #7 December 30, 2004 Hmmm... Perhaps they expected the officer to issue a warning before shooting? Something like: Stop! Armed Police! I require you to cease and desist from your current activity and adopt a non-threatening posture, otherwise the law does authorise me in the use of deadly force to ensure the safety of myself, yourself and others, which I will use if I believe that it is in the public interest, and that the subsequent enquiry by my force, the District Attorney, and any local busybody who hopes to grab some publicity from my anticipated shooting, no matter how ludicrous and partisan or anti-police their viewpoint will exonerate me, and that all subsequent medical treatment, psychological counselling, and compensation in whatever form, for myself and any other party involved in this incident will be given at no personal cost to myself, and I now require you to sign this statement indicating that you have clearly heard and understood this warning!" There. That should cover it. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #8 December 30, 2004 I think next time there's a call like this,Larissa could try the "reason" approach while someone approaches her with the knife and hatchetMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #9 December 30, 2004 Quote"We're not talking about a bunch of gangsters with guns. We're talking about a 19-year-old kid with a knife and an officer with a gun," said Larissa Matzek, executive director of the nonprofit National Police Accountability Project. "It seems like there would be other ways." Those that can, do. Those that can't will bitch about those that can. I bet this bitch would shit her skirt if someone ran at her with a knife. What a dipshit."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #10 December 30, 2004 Quote"We're not talking about a bunch of gangsters with guns. We're talking about a 19-year-old kid with a knife and an officer with a gun," said Larissa Matzek, executive director of the nonprofit National Police Accountability Project. "It seems like there would be other ways." What, like letting the little fucker stab you to death? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #11 December 30, 2004 Sounds like police assisted suicide to me...illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #12 December 30, 2004 Spoken like a true shyster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #13 December 30, 2004 QuoteSpoken like a true shyster No... Spoken like a Cop who after too many years now KNOWS that once the police turn up then they're automatically deemed responsible for the safety & wellbeing of all the fuckwits who caused us to be there in the first place!! Anyway... Even "that" warning won't safisfy the NPAP (pronounced "Encrap"). I'd be accused of failing to offer the "victim" free access to a pen (in a non-threatening manner)! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #14 December 30, 2004 Quote"It seems like there would be other ways." So lets recreate the scenario, as in using real people with real knives and real hatchets and real homicidal intentions, and let the author of this quote do just that. find another way.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #15 December 30, 2004 Quote"We're not talking about a bunch of gangsters with guns. We're talking about a 19-year-old kid with a knife and an officer with a gun," said Larissa Matzek, executive director of the nonprofit National Police Accountability Project. "It seems like there would be other ways." Bad enough they keep trying to disarm the law-abiding, NOW they want to give the damn criminals "first licks" ?????? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #16 December 30, 2004 At 19, that 'boy' should know the difference between right and wrong and especially, you don't approach a police officer weilding a knife and a hatchet! At 19, he's no longer a 'kid'. Also, I think, we need more facts in regard to this matter. There may be more to this than is in the press. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #17 December 31, 2004 QuoteI'd give it a few days before getting too pissed off. Strictly defined, calling it a homicide doesn't mean it wasn't justified. I'm sure the DA will look at it, and decide not to press charges. But that Larissa chick definitely needs to go do something more useful with her mouth besides talk bs. You might be suprised. Last year in Austin Texas a cop tried to stop a kid driving a stolen car. Somehow the cop got hung up on the car and was being dragged down the road. Put his gun through the window and shot the kid. Was charged with murder. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #18 December 31, 2004 Quote Was charged with murder. Un-fucking-believable. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #19 December 31, 2004 Quote Quote Was charged with murder. Un-fucking-believable. - Jim Ya know, the same thing we do with solders WHO WE send to Iraq, they kill someone and get sent to prison, ... They should ofcourse take the time to think about what they are gonna do before they fire, because a situation like this ALWAYS offers alot of time to think about things.. This shit just pisses me off.. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sabr190 0 #20 December 31, 2004 Just a couple of weeks ago I was talking with an officer, he told me that the "average" male could traverse 20 feet in less than two seconds, espesially if they are "hopped up". Doesn't sound like much time for an officer to think, just react. I think the officer in question did the right thing, his life or the attackers life. This attacker paid the ultimate price for being a fuckwit "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one" - rehmwa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #21 December 31, 2004 QuoteJust a couple of weeks ago I was talking with an officer, he told me that the "average" male could traverse 20 feet in less than two seconds, espesially if they are "hopped up". Doesn't sound like much time for an officer to think, just react. I think the officer in question did the right thing, his life or the attackers life. This attacker paid the ultimate price for being a fuckwit Yep, the Tueller drill - a normal male can traverse 21 feet (that's about the distance across an average living room) in roughly 2 seconds. Used to show *WHY* you should cover a possible assailant rather than waiting for them to make the first move.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #22 December 31, 2004 QuoteQuoteJust a couple of weeks ago I was talking with an officer, he told me that the "average" male could traverse 20 feet in less than two seconds, espesially if they are "hopped up". Doesn't sound like much time for an officer to think, just react. I think the officer in question did the right thing, his life or the attackers life. This attacker paid the ultimate price for being a fuckwit Yep, the Tueller drill - a normal male can traverse 21 feet (that's about the distance across an average living room) in roughly 2 seconds. Used to show *WHY* you should cover a possible assailant rather than waiting for them to make the first move. Fine for the police. I'd not like to see any Tom Dick or Harry with a CCW covering everyone they thought was a possible assailant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #23 December 31, 2004 QuoteI'd not like to see any Tom Dick or Harry with a CCW covering everyone they thought was a possible assailant. So it's OK that a police officer killed someone who posed a direct threat to -HIS- life, but it's not OK if I do it? Is that the gist of it? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #24 January 1, 2005 Quote QuoteI'd not like to see any Tom Dick or Harry with a CCW covering everyone they thought was a possible assailant. So it's OK that a police officer killed someone who posed a direct threat to -HIS- life, but it's not OK if I do it? Is that the gist of it? - Jim Don't misquote me. There's a big difference between covering someone who IS a direct threat, and someone you suspect may be a possible one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #25 January 1, 2005 QuoteDon't misquote me. There's a big difference between covering someone who IS a direct threat, and someone you suspect may be a possible one. And what else would you consider someone who has broken into your house? The Tooth Fairy?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
