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Quote"This type of abuse goes on in varying degrees in prisons all over the world and not a peep from the lefties until it happens to people who have sworn to kill Americans."
Thats just not true, its just that you either don't hear the 'Peeps', or the Peeps aren't directed at you.
Trust me, some of us lefties spend quite a lot of effort 'Peeping' away in the background.
I'm not saying it's never been "peeped", but show me one person on these forums who has criticized worldwide prison abuses before these abuses at Gitmo and Abu Ghrab occured.
Now ask yourself why these same people get more upset about Gitmo, where the abuses are relatively minor in comparison than they do about all the other abuses within the US and worldwide?
QuoteIf that means cutting digits off a tango to force him to tell you which elementary school bus is going to be hijacked and bombed tomorrow then so be it.
What is a tango? Other than the argentinian dance of course...
Okay, so what about if the tango doesn´t know anything and he ends up with his digits chopped off? Do you apologize in Uncle Sam´s behalf and done with it?
By the way, that of chopping parts of the body off reminds me sooooo much to the taliban government....
wmw999 2,122
Burning with cigarettes? Does it make a difference if you do it where it leaves a scar that can be seen in public?
How about molesting them? Is it OK if it's a woman who does it?
Or maybe simply pouring cold water on them and leaving them where it's cold?
And how much proof do you need before you can start. Does it matter?
I'm sorry. It's wrong. Torture leads people to confess to things they didn't do, and it leads the torturers to feel that a confession is all that counts -- the truth isn't as important as the confession and the exertion of power. So you're (that's the figurative "you", not a particular you) the biggest baddest motherfucker out there. If you wear a T-shirt saying so, you have more people fucking with you. And if you beat them up to show that you're more powerful, then you'll also have them trying sneaky things to hurt you.
Which, of course, justifies torture
Bullshit.
Wendy W.
Quote
Now ask yourself why these same people get more upset about Gitmo, where the abuses are relatively minor in comparison than they do about all the other abuses within the US and worldwide?
China never claims that they protect human rights or that their country is the very best and has the most freedom in the world... you do it at every ocasion you get.
mr2mk1g 10
Wonder what the those who actually make the rules think? Go check your statute books. That's where you find the "rules". They're not some etherial made up set of ideas came upon by some private in a bunker some where - the nation for whom that private enlisted came up with the rules.
The nation its self is the boss of the private - not the other way round. The private, along with every other rank in the armed forces, does what the nation tells him to do.
If there's anything there which specifically says that the state is allowed to torture individuals then that private can have fun all day cutting off people's fingers. But there's not is there.
Until there is a law which says the state is allowed to do torture people, without charge or trial, it remains against the "rules" to torture people.
wmw999 2,122
Quotehow me one person on these forums who has criticized worldwide prison abuses before these abuses at Gitmo and Abu Ghrab occured
If you mean "criticized" as being only that they spoke of it on the forums, well, probably no one.
But I've been known to donate to Amnesty International, and I'll just bet I'm not the only one. Their whole purpose is to fight torture and mistreatment in custodial situations.
I guess it doesn't count if I haven't been ranting on it in front of you, does it?
Wendy W.
QuoteQuoteIf that means cutting digits off a tango to force him to tell you which elementary school bus is going to be hijacked and bombed tomorrow then so be it.
What is a tango? Other than the argentinian dance of course...
Okay, so what about if the tango doesn´t know anything and he ends up with his digits chopped off? Do you apologize in Uncle Sam´s behalf and done with it?
By the way, that of chopping parts of the body off reminds me sooooo much to the taliban government....
Perhaps you need to read up about your own govt's abuses before you start bashing ours.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2002/18392.htm
QuoteThere were reports that at times security forces abused detainees and mistreated foreigners and illegal immigrants. According to Amnesty International (AI), government investigations of such abuses often were lengthy and punishments were light. Lengthy pretrial detention and delays in trials were sometimes problems. Violence against women was a problem, which the Government took steps to address. Women also faced some discrimination in the workplace. Societal discrimination against Roma and immigrants remained a problem, as did occasional violence against immigrants. Trafficking in women and teenage girls for the purpose of prostitution was a problem.
QuoteThe law prohibits such practices; however, suspects charged with terrorism at times asserted that they were abused during detention, and at times other detainees. AI continued to criticize the Government for reports of brutality by security forces, particularly directed at foreigners and illegal immigrants. Human Rights Watch and AI also reported that police abused undocumented Moroccan minors (see Section 5). In April AI issued a report titled, "Spain, Identity Crisis, Torture from Security Forces," which included examples of torture and mistreatment by police based on racial problems.
Glances round....ummm, me. I'm pretty sure I moaned about Uzbekistan on these forums a long time ago, and have been supporting Amnesty for at least 10 years.
Not sure if that precedes public knowledge of Gitmo, certainly the Abu Ghraib farce.
He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson
SkyDekker 1,123
QuoteThis isn't the Waldorf, sweety. This is war. In war you win at all costs. You do whatever is neccessary to kill the enemy before they kill you. Period.
Then why do you get all upset when Iraqis capture and torture Americans?
Ron 7
QuoteWhat is a tango?
Tango is operator speak for Terrorist.
Ron 7
QuoteTheir laws say they don't agree with you. If people are doing things against the law they should be held accountable by their national law enforcement agencies.
Governments have a way of not doing that...They even let guys that admitted it run for office, and then folks in other coutries what them elected to our highest office.
QuoteI would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions
http://www.streamload.com/jmstein77/kerry2.mp3
Funny huh? You still wish Kerry had won?
mr2mk1g 10
Quote"I'm not saying it's never been "peeped", but show me one person on these forums who has criticized worldwide prison abuses before these abuses at Gitmo and Abu Ghrab occured. "
Glances round....ummm, me. I'm pretty sure I moaned about Uzbekistan on these forums a long time ago, and have been supporting Amnesty for at least 10 years.
Not sure if that precedes public knowledge of Gitmo, certainly the Abu Ghraib farce.
Well, you are the exception and while you and I disagree on many issues, I respect you because you do more than just bitch about the U.S. But you get my point, I'm sure. Don't even get me started on U.N. abuses in Africa. Wonder why there is so much silence on that horrible debacle? Could it be it doesn't present as good an opportunity to bash America?
Appalling? Negative. I'll tell you what it is. Productive. Maybe not engaging in any form of torturing tecniques to extract vital intel sounds swell in the suburbs but in the real world..... it doesn't. This isn't the Waldorf, sweety. This is war. In war you win at all costs. You do whatever is neccessary to kill the enemy before they kill you. Period. If that means cutting digits off a tango to force him to tell you which elementary school bus is going to be hijacked and bombed tomorrow then so be it.
Forty-two
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