pajarito 0 #176 September 14, 2004 I've quoted again for clarification. Did you read 20-25? Or just 20-21? If you read it in its entirety, how can you not get the full picture? I too am at a loss. Take care and get ready for the storm. It's late here. Going to sleep. Manana! King James Version 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:20-25 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #177 September 14, 2004 Quote Quoteum no, its not, it is literature, but it is NOT history.. you may believe it to be true, but that does not make it so... You may not believe it to be true, but that doesn't make it so. perhaps you should look up the definition of History? very few verifiable events occur in the bible, very little of it qualifies... do you believe Jesus (the semi-verifiable man) actually said all the words written in red in some versions of the text? please.... at best the majority qualifies as historical fiction, but there is no argument that it is literature from any front. or perhaps you believe the Edda's are History too? how about every other religious mythos in existence with the same (or better in some cases) level of verifiable facts?? all history? even when they disagree?? please.... hell by the 'standard' you apparently accept, Hamlet is history too, as is Richard the III and every other 'historical' play Shakespeare wrote, we can prove just about as much of it REALLY occurred. Having a historical basis is NOT the same as History.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #178 September 14, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- um no, its not, it is literature, but it is NOT history.. you may believe it to be true, but that does not make it so... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You may not believe it to be true, but that doesn't make it so. - Jim Jim makes a great point.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #179 September 14, 2004 Quote my soul is in no jeopardy What if you are wrong? Are you prepared to spent enternity paying for that wrong decision? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #180 September 14, 2004 QuoteHave proof? There you go again. Asking for proof and not saying what you want. I'm beginning to think you want God to come down in a bolt of lighting and say "hello, I am God. Nice to meet you Tuna." Now that would be funny. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #181 September 14, 2004 QuoteQuote my soul is in no jeopardy What if you are wrong? Are you prepared to spent enternity paying for that wrong decision? I have no issues there at all. It isn’t a decision, it never was. I have known since i first drew breath I was part and parcel of divinity, never separate, no blood sacrifice necessary. Nothing I've heard in any Christian church has affected that knowledge in any way, shape, or form. I've met some amazing people there (and some complete dicks, usually the ones screaming about how i'm damned for all time, because i cant buy their dogma, question its assertions and help others to see God for themselves, without the dogma and filter of a church to paint her for them) but the experience there has certainly helped me to learn quite a few things about real nature of religion (it has little to do with God and everything to do with Man.) The basic assertions of christianity (original sin, separation from God, associated guilt etc) are so fundamentally flawed i've had difficulty not laughing them and the zeal with which others declare themselves in possession of sole Truth and salvation, even as a young child... you might as well ask me if i'm prepared for the sun not to rise in the morning... It is a meaningless question. Eternity is a long time, there are quite a number of things to do, and quite a few paths to walk before I reach it's end, becoming a christian isn’t one of them.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbarry 0 #182 September 14, 2004 Just gonna tie two thoughts together, and then ask a question; respectfully. Quote pajarito (quoting scripture): Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed.” brits17: "hello, I am God. Nice to meet you Tuna.". Growing up, I guess i never understood from my parents, teachers, clergy, or prayer why blind faith is in itself virtuous and something the christian god wants us to have, when he/she obviously has the power to make himself visible to us. To me, this really seems to be the core belief and test of a christian (and some other faiths too), and my personal unsurmountable hurdle. "Look, just believe, ok?" I've heard that if you believe you need no proof, and if you don't believe, then no proof will be good enough. That statement attempts to sound logical, I just don't buy it. Even the story of Thomas seems to have proven that statement wrong. Pajarito asks how many would still not believe if the christian god made himself visible (literally) to us. The answer I submit is that close to all would be believers then. I don't question the Bible because i lack respect for its contradictions, i don't believe in it because it's never made enough sense to me. As soon as i thought i was getting it, it falls apart again. And trying to understand history, i'm suspect of the circumstances of how it was created. The TaoTeChing makes a lot of sense to me. And I'm hardly an eastern philosophy nutjob. It seems like a solid guide for living my life and respecting others and the world around me while i'm here, and until i return to the soil. I read it 18 years ago and it was like a lightbulb went on in a dark room. And i've read it, and its many translations and interpretations hundreds of times. But that's just me. And yes, it contains some contradictions too. But it's my hobby and it's a guide. So yeah, if i die and meet St Peter at the pearlies, if he asks i'm just going to have to shrug my shoulders, explain that i did the best i could on my spiritual quest with the tools i was born with, and accept whatever consequences await me. But until then, i will treat my world and those in it with respect and admiration. And give it some cowbell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #183 September 14, 2004 QuoteQuote my soul is in no jeopardy What if you are wrong? Are you prepared to spent enternity paying for that wrong decision? You ever watch South Park? Nice hour long episode back from 2002. People die and are at a receiving part in Hell. Confused recently dead people are told, welcome to hell. "But I've been a Methodist/Buddist/Catholic all my life" they cry. Satan's assistant replies "I'm sorry, but you picked the wrong religion. The correct answer was the Mormons." I find it unfortunate that many Christian sects marginalize the current life and extole the greatness of the next one. If my take it right - there is no next one - many people didn't get their money's worth from the one life. About the only consolation is that they won't ever know it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #184 September 14, 2004 QuoteSpin it how you want but ALL LIVING CREATURES has only one meaning. As I said before, there is a problem with taking a translated text too literally. Different books of the Bible started with an oral tradition, then variants of Hebrew and Greek, then Latin, and finally English. And has Pajarito has tried to explain, there are multiple releases in use today. A few have been rewritten for current English for the benefit of ease of reading/understanding. You saying that your quote came out of "the bible" is trollish at best. A literal reading says the world is 6000 years old, when we have no shortage of physical evidence to the contrary. Believers can remark that this contradiction is not, it's still a question of faith or a test of it. http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20030227.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 0 #185 September 14, 2004 I'm a non believer, at least in the sense I don't believe in a supreme being. But Jesus lived, and preached, and probaly did some good for the people of his time. A lot of people have come after him and done a lot of evil in his name and in the name of God. Each claiming to know better then the last, each claiming to have the right answers, each condeming the others who disagreed with them. If we today each followed the basic teachings of the christian faith, and I dare say most faiths, we would all live better lives. We each are imortal in the sense that we have an influence on the people around us, and if we live a good life, that influence will live on in those people we leave behind. You don't have to believe in god, or the here after, or prove to anyone else that he/she exists or not. But there is nothing wrong in living your life as if you did believe. Do some one some good every day and you'll love not only your self better, but all around you as well.Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #186 September 14, 2004 QuoteYou saying that your quote came out of "the bible" is trollish at best. Came straight from King James. Guess that's not good enough. QuoteAs I said before, there is a problem with taking a translated text too literally. Yes, taking the bible (translated text) seriously is a huge problem...problem with reality and common sense. I'll agree with you there. So if saying "all living creatures" doesn't mean really mean all living creatures, what other text is skewed and incorrect? Maybe the 10 commandments don't really mean what they say. Does, "Thou shall not kill" really mean you shouldn't kill? Are you allowed to have other gods before Jesus? I say you can since we can't really take translated text literally. What other 10 commandments can we now break since, as you said, we can't take it literally. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #187 September 14, 2004 ...To me there is absolutely no proof Jesus existed. None whatsoever... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Wow. Jesus is the single most researched person in history. You may not accept His divinity, but it's puzzling how you can claim He never existed. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ...Not to mention the bible itself is chalked full of flip flops... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Such as? Here's a question for all skeptics and not-so-sures. (Resist the temptation to answer a question not being asked): IF God is real, IF the Bible is true, IF Jesus is who He claimed to be, and, most importantly, IF it were possible to prove this beyond all doubt, would you be pleased or disappointed? Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #188 September 14, 2004 QuoteI'll answer for you since you're not sure. Thank you for your answer with the assumption that I wasn’t sure, however, I can answer for myself. I like to be as precise as possible with my replies and not sling around emotionally charged garbage. I don’t always…but I try. Follow up to question concerning Genesis 1:20-21: You see…it’s easy to take one phrase or word out of context and show apparent discrepancy or to make it mean what you’d like for it to mean. The Mormons/Jehovah’s Witnesses do a lot of that and that’s why they’re not considered Christians (except by themselves) and are a cult organization. I’ve stated over and over that context is everything. In reference to Genesis 1:20-21, taken alone with the KJV wording, it could be construed as saying that all life came from the ocean. However, if read in its entirety, Genesis 1:20-25, it clearly explains that land animals were created after oceanic life. Even with the different versions written side by side, they all say the same thing. You just have to look at the text with a careful “studying” eye instead of glancing over it with a “preconceived” skeptical one. I believe the point has been made clear to most (I hope). Some, however, will always doubt and no amount of explanation or proof will be enough. That’s just the way it is. QuoteHow did Judas die? In reference to your question concerning the apparent contradiction in the manner in which Judas died, I like the following short explanation. How did Judas die, by hanging or falling down? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #189 September 14, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'll answer for you since you're not sure. Thank you for your answer with the assumption that I wasn’t sure, however, I can answer for myself. I like to be as precise as possible with my replies and not sling around emotionally charged garbage. I don’t always…but I try. Follow up to question concerning Genesis 1:20-21: You see…it’s easy to take one phrase or word out of context and show apparent discrepancy or to make it mean what you’d like for it to mean. The Mormons/Jehovah’s Witnesses do a lot of that and that’s why they’re not considered Christians (except by themselves) and are a cult organization. I’ve stated over and over that context is everything. In reference to Genesis 1:20-21, taken alone with the KJV wording, it could be construed as saying that all life came from the ocean. However, if read in its entirety, Genesis 1:20-25, it clearly explains that land animals were created after oceanic life. Even with the different versions written side by side, they all say the same thing. You just have to look at the text with a careful “studying” eye instead of glancing over it with a “preconceived” skeptical one. I believe the point has been made clear to most (I hope). Some, however, will always doubt and no amount of explanation or proof will be enough. That’s just the way it is. QuoteHow did Judas die? In reference to your question concerning the apparent contradiction in the manner in which Judas died, I like the following short explanation. How did Judas die, by hanging or falling down? With contorted logic (spin) like that, no wonder they call themselves "CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS"... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #190 September 14, 2004 QuoteWith contorted logic (spin) like that, no wonder they call themselves "CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS" You see...that's exactly what I mean by non-productive, emotionally charged, garbage. It would be better to analyze it and give an educated opinion so the rest of us might learn from you. Even if I don't agree with you, at least it would be educational....Professor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #191 September 14, 2004 Quote2. On what day did the earth go from being completely underwater to dry land? My answer: The 3rd day. QuoteNew International Version (NIV) And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds. And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning – the third day. Genesis:19-13 QuoteWell in 1:2 the earth is completely underwater on the first day. It isn't until the third day until the waters of the deep collected, and dry land formed. However, in 2:4, 5, & 6, earth on the first day was dry land. The problem here is apparently with the understanding of the creative language used in the King James Version. I’ve, therefore quoted from both it and mine. ***New International Version (NIV) Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Genesis 1:2 King James Version (KJV) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. QuoteNew International Version (NIV) This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens – and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground, but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground - Genesis 2:4-6 King James Version (KJV) These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. Genesis 2:4-6 Of course, there is dry land already formed by Genesis 2:4-6. That’s the part of the record that tells of when and how man was created. The creation of the world was already told in the previous chapter. What would lead you to the conclusion even in the King James Version that there is some sort of contradiction? Study and compare the verses with any of the other version that you wish. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #192 September 14, 2004 Quote3. What came first, man or trees? My answer: Trees QuoteThat would be true in 1:12-13 and 26-31 where the story says trees were made on the 3rd day and man formed 3 days later. However, in 2:7, 9 man was made before trees. QuoteNew International Version The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning – the third day. Genesis 1:12-13 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” Genesis 1:26-31*** ***New International Version The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. And the Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground – trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:7-9 Again, Context is the key. Genesis 1:12-13 and 26-31 are concerned with the creation of the world. Genesis 2:7-9 is speaking specifically of the Garden of Eden. It never gives the impression that the world and the Garden of Eden are one and of the same. One sequence of events does not necessarily have to be tied in with the other. However, it says that He had created the garden leading to believe that it had been created prior to man. He then further prepared it by making trees to grow. That’s an easy one. It’s very clear if you read to understand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #193 September 14, 2004 Quote4. Did man come before or after beasts? My answer: After QuoteIn chapter one that is true. Unfortunately, in chapter two it states man was created before beast. I’m assuming, since you didn’t specify, that you’re speaking of Genesis 1:24-27 and 2:19-20. QuoteNew International Version (NIV) And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Genesis 1:24-27 QuoteNew International Version (NIV) Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beast of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field. Genesis 2:19-20 Again, the text, if read carefully, says had created just like it said that the Garden of Eden had been created before leading one to believe that it occurred sometime prior. Even so, however, this is also in the context of the Garden of Eden and its preparation. There is no indication that the world and the Garden of Eden are one and of the same. It still wouldn’t matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #194 September 14, 2004 QuoteTheir is a horrible consequence for not being saved. I have said this before in here.. I would rather have faith "In what for some reason I know is the truth" than not to have faith and be wrong. Imagine it... You get 80 years plus or minus a little... But you get eternity in hell or in heaven... You don't have to be a robot for goodness sake.. You just have to be saved and follow some pretty simple rules.. Deny God if you will... When you stand at the gates he will deny you... No amount of excuses, rationalization or sarcasm will save you at that point... I will say a prayer for each and every one of you.. This doesn't make sense. It isn't about denying God or lack of faith. You know in your heart that the Bible/God is truth, you were born believing in this, you feel from your hair to toenails that this is truth, and nothing can change your mind, you are confident that you are right. To you, it isn't about choice, it is about knowing. Those of us to do not believe in these words feel just as strongly. We believe that Christianity is not the only way, we were not born believing in these things, and just as you couldn't abandon your beliefs, neither can we. It is not a conscious choice to reject God, it is not 'oh look, here's the Bible, I read it and learned about God, but choose to believe it is horseshit.' It is being completely unable to believe in it. Not a choice, a gut instinct, just as your belief is the same, a gut instinct. The Bible is not a history book, it was never meant to be. It is a roadmap to the followers of Christianity, the parables and stories that give you your beliefs and re-enforce them. It is the history of Christianity, not the kind of history that is in history books. You say that you would rather have faith in what you believe in your heart to be true than to have no faith and be wrong. Sure, I could fake it that I believe in God, go to church, pray, but deep in my heart it would not be sincere, it would be superficial. I honestly tried to believe for most of my life, but that gut feeling of it being true just isn't there for me. I will not pretend or put on a mask. I have to be true to my own instincts, just as you do for yours. Can God truly fault me for not living a lie? For not pretending to be a Christian? Would he truly prefer a superficial Christian who in their heart does not believe to someone who follows the truths in their own hearts? If so, then I don't want a part of it. If He would condemn me for being physically/emotionally unable to force myself to believe in Christianity, then so be it. I can't force myself to believe in something that sits so wrong with me. It's as if he would condemn me for not being able to run 100 miles an hour. No matter how hard I would try, I couldn't physically do it. Same with believing in Christianity. I don't need excuses, rationalizations or sarcasm if indeed I will be judged at the pearly gates. I do the best I can to be a good person and be true to what I do believe. That is all that anyone can do, do our best every day. I accept the consequences of those feelings, of my gut instincts. If I am wrong, I make no excuses. I can't even truly make apologies. I can only do the best that I can. I do believe that all things are linked by something greater than us. I believe in the spirit of the earth and the sky. I believe that living an ethical life and reaching out to others and living in harmony with the world is important. I believe that every person lives on in the hearts of those around them, those that they impacted, whether positively or negatively, after death. I believe in conservation of energy and that in some form, people do live on after death. Never having been dead myself, I can't fathom what that would be. I feel closest to a deity at the top of a mountain alone, or hiking in the woods with true peace. In my very soul I'm at ease with the world around me, I am calm and centered (for lack of a better word). I neither judge those around me, nor want to be judged. Truth is internal when it comes to the metaphysical. And I am at peace within myself. Pray for me if you wish. But I am content with my perception of 'truth' and with all my spirit believe in that concept. I am no more wrong or right than you are. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #195 September 14, 2004 QuoteQuestion: What hour was Jesus crucified? Quote"And it was the third hour, and they crucified him." Mk.15:25 But wait. Look over at Jn.19:14-16 and you'll see it says, "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. QuoteNew International Version (NIV) It was the third hour when they crucified him. Mark 15:25 QuoteNew International Version (NIV) It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews. But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!” “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered. Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. John 19:14-16 Explanation: John states that Jesus’ trial neared completion “about the sixth hour.” Mark, however, says that Jesus was crucified at “the third hour.” This apparent contradiction is resolved if we understand that John used the Roman method of computing time, while Mark used the Palestinian method. The Roman day began at midnight, and the Palestinian day began at sunrise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #196 September 14, 2004 QuoteThis doesn't make sense. It isn't about denying God or lack of faith. You know in your heart that the Bible/God is truth, you were born believing in this, you feel from your hair to toenails that this is truth, and nothing can change your mind, you are confident that you are right. To you, it isn't about choice, it is about knowing. I was Agnostic until 1998. I'm 35 now. It certainly wasn't something I was born with and I didn't grow up in a Christian environment. I grew up in a very humanistic and selfish environment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #197 September 14, 2004 QuoteJesus appears to Thomas Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” A week later his disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed.” John 20:24-29 I doubt that Jesus would have banned Thomas, one of his supporters and friends, from Heaven just because of doubting him. So exactly how does this work, one who believes without proof gets a front row seat in Heaven while those who need proof to believe are just in the general admission section? If Thomas is accepted despite his disbelief, why wouldn't everyone else be accepted as well, if disbelieving? Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #198 September 14, 2004 QuoteI was Agnostic until 1998. I'm 35 now. It certainly wasn't something I was born with and I didn't grow up in a Christian environment. I grew up in a very humanistic and selfish environment. I was replying more to Rhino on this one, since he was born feeling this way, but the arguement is no less valid. You believe with every fiber of your being that Christianity is truth. Others believe in Islam or Hinduism, or Paganism, or whatever every bit as strongly. As you could not force yourself to believe something else, you are firm and secure in your beliefs, so are others. So how can they be expected to change their gut instincts, their souls? Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #199 September 14, 2004 QuoteQuoteTheir is a horrible consequence for not being saved. I have said this before in here.. I would rather have faith "In what for some reason I know is the truth" than not to have faith and be wrong. Imagine it... You get 80 years plus or minus a little... But you get eternity in hell or in heaven... You don't have to be a robot for goodness sake.. You just have to be saved and follow some pretty simple rules.. Deny God if you will... When you stand at the gates he will deny you... No amount of excuses, rationalization or sarcasm will save you at that point... I will say a prayer for each and every one of you.. Let's see, where should I start! first of all, do you really think that a god would give you one life to try and get it right, and if you have not been "saved" by the Christians then he the god who loves us all beyond our understanding could let his children burn forever and ever? Let me ask you a question, if you had a kid and he or she said to you "I don't love you and believe in you", would you send them to an oven and cook them until they no longer exsist? Now if you answered "no I couldn't", then let me ask you this, do you really think that a God who loves us beyond anything that we as temporary physicall beings could understand, do you think he could do that to us? You say you will pray for us but the fact is you should really pray for truth and not be so afraid to question God, in my opinion, he wants us to question things whether good or bad. Believe it or not we are all here to learn for God. NOT TO FEAR HIM. Would you want to everybody to worship you because they are afraid of you, or because they really do love you? Think about it and don't be so afriad.......I'm not!----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #200 September 14, 2004 Well said. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next Page 8 of 26 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
peregrinerose 0 #200 September 14, 2004 Well said. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
