Arguments for (or against) the existence of God

[Coreeece 2]

jcd11235

***No, clearly I just simply turned it against you.

Well, you may have tried, but you failed miserably.

Coreeece

No, I don't possess an inherent characteristic to believe that I should.

So your logic is faulty and inconsistent.

Ya, you can say all that, but you can't explain it - lame. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jcd11235 0]

Coreeece

Ya, you can say all that, but you can't explain it - lame. . .

Don't confuse your inability to comprehend with a lack of explanation.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

jcd11235

***Ya, you can say all that, but you can't explain it - lame. . .

Don't confuse your inability to comprehend with a lack of explanation.

Has it ever occurred to you that when you resort to these tactics, it reveals that your position is weak? "You're no longer able to argue from facts, but are instead trying to dismiss the person entirely. You're trying to shut down the conversation and maintain an egotistical advantage instead of a reasoned one?"

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jcd11235 0]

Coreeece

Has it ever occurred to you that when you resort to these tactics, it reveals that your position is weak? "You're no longer able to argue from facts, but are instead trying to dismiss the person entirely. You're trying to shut down the conversation and maintain an egotistical advantage instead of a reasoned one?"

Has it occurred to you that you've yet to address my parable at all? All you've done is offered up a childish "huh uh". But go ahead and ignore the giant redwood trunk in your own eye as you point out the piece of dust you think is in mine. It's your well known SOP.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

I have addressed it - humans don't have an innate desire to question a dice game as they do to acknowledge that a creation has a creator.

Don't confuse your inability to comprehend with a lack of explanation.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jcd11235 0]

Your attempts to argue logically are textbook examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect at work.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

jcd11235

Your attempts to argue logically are textbook examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect at work.

Has it ever occurred to you that when you resort to these tactics, it reveals that your position is weak? "You're no longer able to argue from facts, but are instead trying to dismiss the person entirely. You're trying to shut down the conversation and maintain an egotistical advantage instead of a reasoned one"

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jcd11235 0]

Coreeece

Has it ever occurred to you that when you resort to these tactics, it reveals that your position is weak? "You're no longer able to argue from facts, but are instead trying to dismiss the person entirely. You're trying to shut down the conversation and maintain an egotistical advantage instead of a reasoned one"

If you logically address my parable, then I'll offer a more meaningful response. In the meantime I'll sit back and make fun of your futile attempts.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

Again, I've already addressed your parable - you just refuse to acknowledge the intrinsic belief in God.

. . .btw, I don't think you're as cool as your avatar suggests.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[jcd11235 0]

Coreeece

Again, I've already addressed your parable

No, you haven't, not in any meaningful way, anyway. You made a comment, devoid of logic, about how Bob would be an easy mark for con men with loaded dice, despite Bob being the only one of the two who understands how the effects of loaded dice would manifest in observed data, as well as recognizes that those effects did not manifest.

Then you went on to describe Al's idiocy as "street smarts" and "instinct to know that something is up," when Bob's actually a fool who embraces ignorance.

Your comment was wholly illogical. That you don't understand that is sad.

ETA: Still, I provided three examples showing the absurdity of applying Al's "street smarts" and "instinct" in daily life to make it clear even to someone who doesn't understand the sample space of a simple experiment of summing the faces of two six-sided dice. All you've responded with are more hypocritical insults instead of taking the time to address the point of discussion.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

jcd11235

I provided three examples showing the absurdity of applying your "logic" in daily life.

As interesting as it was - in the grand scope of things, you've provided nothing but irrelevant nonsense about some hypothetical dice game that has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of inherent faith in God. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[quade 3]

Coreeece

... that has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of inherent faith in God. . .

And what, precisely, would the "intrinsic value of inherent faith in God" be?

To me that sounds like a circular argument. Essentially, what I parse that phrase to mean is; believing in good is good (intrinsic value) because it's believing in god (inherent faith).

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jcd11235 0]

Coreeece

***I provided three examples showing the absurdity of applying your "logic" in daily life.

As interesting as it was - in the grand scope of things, you've provided nothing but irrelevant nonsense about some hypothetical dice game that has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of inherent faith in God. . .

It's quite telling that you would quote one part of my post, then only address a different part. But your comment further illustrates, not that it was necessary, that you didn't understand the parable. You clearly missed the point of it. Allow me to explain.

The parable was not intended to address what you claim to be "the intrinsic value of inherent faith in God." (We'll come back to that momentarily.)

Using the dice experiment, I was able to show how faith is often rooted in ignorance and an intrinsic need to explain that which might seem highly unusual, but is actually ordinary and unremarkable. But the main purpose of the parable was to illustrate that atheism does not imply a belief that there is no god; it only implies that a belief in god does not exist. One need not even consider the possibility of a god in order to be an atheist. It's a subtle, but important, difference that had been lost in the discussion.

* * * * *

I question the validity of your premise that there is intrinsic value in believing in God.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

jcd11235

One need not even consider the possibility of a god in order to be an atheist. It's a subtle, but important, difference that had been lost in the discussion.

Listen, I understand the point you were trying to make - I was just having some fun - I twisted it up a bit and it made you feel uncomfortable, I get it - no biggie.

It's similar to the point I made to Wendy that God has no place in the limited human construct of the scientific method.

...but this is the issue I wanted to get to. Your argument is that one does not even have to consider the possibility of God, but my argument is that they will have to consider it one way or another - either through a negative/positive indirect external influence, or on their own by way of personal reflection.

In other words, we're born this way. . .

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

quade

***... that has nothing to do with the intrinsic value of inherent faith in God. . .

And what, precisely, would the "intrinsic value of inherent faith in God" be?

Well, I wouldn't expect you to see the value, but suffice it to say that belief in God is an inherent characteristic of human nature - an "evolutionary benefit" if you will. . .well, at least that's what the scientific community seems to be calling it.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[nigel99 144]

RonD1120

Jesus the Christ does not reach the really, really smart and superiorly courageous people. He is there to save those in deep trouble. Those are the ones that are blind, sick and held captive in bondage. Obviously that is me but not you.

You and many, many others here can't scientifically understand the spiritual realm. You can't even see it. However, I and few others here, can. Without a doubt, there is no logic in that.

The funny aspect about your post if that you are saying only dumb people believe in God

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[RonD1120 58]

What I am saying is that only those people who are smart enough to know they can't live without a relationship with the Christ become believers. It is the complete surrender of self. It takes time to reach that level. It starts with admission of guilt and asking for forgiveness.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[turtlespeed 212]

My bet is that Ron and Coreece will deny the "truth" of the video - even though it parrots a lot of what the say.


We'll see if there are even any comments.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

Coreeece

it made you feel uncomfortable

No it didn't.

Coreeece

In other words, we're born this way. . .

We are all born atheists. We have to learn be brainwashed before believing in religion. It's no different from "teaching" children the Santa myth as though it is real.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

RonD1120

What I am saying is that only those people who are smart enough to know they can't live without a relationship with the Christ become believers.

You have a different definition of smart than the rest of the English speaking world.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

My bet is that Ron and Coreece will deny the "truth" of the video - even though it parrots a lot of what the say.

Like what? The video is 9 minutes long - I'm not going to sit through that, and I'm pretty sure that you didn't either.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[Coreeece 2]

jcd11235

***In other words, we're born this way. . .

We are all born atheists. We have to learn be brainwashed before believing in religion. It's no different from "teaching" children the Santa myth as though it is real.

I can understand why you would reject that concept. If you were to accept it, then your little analogies to Santa, leprechauns etc., just become irrelevant babble. It's interesting how you reject science when it doesn't fit your narrative.

Besides, this isn't necessarily about religion, but a general inherent belief - how you identify with God after that is another story.

I'd suspect that the majority of antagonists that mock belief in God would rather we ignore the scientific concept of innate faith, lest they be exposed as the intolerant, condescending bigots that they are.

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 212]

Coreeece

***My bet is that Ron and Coreece will deny the "truth" of the video - even though it parrots a lot of what the say.

Like what? The video is 9 minutes long - I'm not going to sit through that, and I'm pretty sure that you didn't either.

Damn,

Even when it's of the homework is done for you . . .

Blissful willful ignorance.

Are you afraid that the things you say to justify your belief is almost exactly what his is?

Scared of getting our bubble burst?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Coreeece 2]

turtlespeed

******My bet is that Ron and Coreece will deny the "truth" of the video - even though it parrots a lot of what the say.

Like what? The video is 9 minutes long - I'm not going to sit through that, and I'm pretty sure that you didn't either.

Damn,

Even when it's of the homework is done for you . . .

Blissful willful ignorance.

Are you afraid that the things you say to justify your belief is almost exactly what his is?

Scared of getting our bubble burst?

You said that he parrots a lot of what we said. All I asked from you was to give a few examples - but I don't think you even watched it. You're just making more stupid assumptions as usual.

...and so what if I agree with him - I grew up with a bunch of muslims in Detroit/Hamtramck/Dearborn which is practically the American Mecca - this may come as a surprise, but I have agreed with muslims before - hell, I've had muslims work for me and I've done work for muslims - many of my fiancee's oncologists are muslim.

...wtf is your problem dude?

Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

[turtlespeed 212]

Coreeece

*********My bet is that Ron and Coreece will deny the "truth" of the video - even though it parrots a lot of what the say.

Like what? The video is 9 minutes long - I'm not going to sit through that, and I'm pretty sure that you didn't either.

Damn,

Even when it's of the homework is done for you . . .

Blissful willful ignorance.

Are you afraid that the things you say to justify your belief is almost exactly what his is?

Scared of getting our bubble burst?

You said that he parrots a lot of what we said. All I asked from you was to give a few examples - but I don't think you even watched it. You're just making more stupid assumptions as usual.

...and so what if I agree with him - I grew up with a bunch of muslims in Detroit/Hamtramck/Dearborn which is practically the American Mecca - this may come as a surprise, but I have agreed with muslims before - hell, I've had muslims work for me and I've done work for muslims - many of my fiancee's oncologists are muslim.

...wtf is your problem dude?

Then who is right?
Is it you, or your coworkers, and employees that are going to hell for all eternity?

According to your religion, (One I was a part of for many years) it is either you or them. It simply can't be both when the ONLY way to God is to follow Jesus.

I know Ron's answer - what's yours?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun