Did she really "rape" him?

[funks 1]

Just saw the headline about the teacher being allowed to see the student she "raped". Is rape the right word to use in this scenario? I know the topic about underage sex has been discussed to no end when it pertains to male vs. female but would you consider what took place here to be a "rape"?

This seems to be a serious misuse of the word. Just because a person is underage does that automatically make it a rape? Even if their was mutual consent?

When I see the word rape I think of a sex act that was forced on another without their consent. Yes, he was underage and the argument that he perhaps did not know what was happening (yeah, right) could be brought up...but for some reason i just dont view this as a rape.

[Muenkel 0]

The law states that it is "Statutory Rape". It is believed that a child of that age is not capable of true consent.

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Chris

[lawrocket 3]

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When I see the word rape I think of a sex act that was forced on another without their consent.

Take out the "forced on" and you have a sexual act on another without consent.

It is non-consensual sex. Considering that minors do not have the capacity to consent, there is no consent. If there is sex with a person without ability to consent, it is rape.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

rape = forcing someone to have sex against their will

A child, a mentally disabled person, an intoxicated person, etc. cannot legally form the will to consent because of an impariment. Therefore, it is rape.

[funks 1]

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rape = forcing someone to have sex against their will

A child, a mentally disabled person, an intoxicated person, etc. cannot legally form the will to consent because of an impariment. Therefore, it is rape.

So are you telling me that a chick (or guy) can cry rape just because they were intoxicated? I dont know if I buy that.

[PhillyKev 0]

If they are drunk to the point where they don't have the capacity to make decisions, yes.

Are you telling me it's ok to take advantage of a "chick" because she had to much to drink?

[Muenkel 0]

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I dont know if I buy that.

You don't have to buy it, but it is the law.

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Chris

[lawrocket 3]

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So are you telling me that a chick (or guy) can cry rape just because they were intoxicated? I dont know if I buy that.

Yes, she or he can. Say your sister is slipped rohypnol in the drink and she is fortunate enough to have the guy that did it carry her home and give her some loving. Yeah, she got lucky. Maybe that dude did her a favor by givher some much needed sex, right? Mmm, hmm. She didn't say no, did she?

Maybe she got so drunk she passed out. Are you saying, "She's there for the taking. I'm gonna go hit that."

Wrong answer. If she cannot consent it is rape.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[funks 1]

nope, definitely not saying it is ok to take advantage of a drunk chick. But if sleeping with a drunk chick meant you risked being accused of rape there would be a hell of a lot of people not getting laid anymore

[PhillyKev 0]

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if sleeping with a drunk chick meant you risked being accused of rape

News flash, you are definitely taking that risk.

[funks 1]

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So are you telling me that a chick (or guy) can cry rape just because they were intoxicated? I dont know if I buy that.

Yes, she or he can. Say your sister is slipped rohypnol in the drink and she is fortunate enough to have the guy that did it carry her home and give her some loving. Yeah, she got lucky. Maybe that dude did her a favor by givher some much needed sex, right? Mmm, hmm. She didn't say no, did she?

Maybe she got so drunk she passed out. Are you saying, "She's there for the taking. I'm gonna go hit that."

Wrong answer. If she cannot consent it is rape.

You are talking about something totally different here. You are not talking about a girl who got drunk on her own, you are talking about a girl who was drugged by somebody else. There is no comparison.

[PhillyKev 0]

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You are talking about something totally different here. You are not talking about a girl who got drunk on her own, you are talking about a girl who was drugged by somebody else. There is no comparison.

Dude, you're way off base here. Plenty of guys have been charged and found guilty of rape for having sex with a girl who said yes when she was shit faced and changed her mind when she sobered up.

IMO, if the guy is just as shit faced, he's no more to blame then she is. But if the guy isn't, and he uses her state of intoxication to his advantage, it's still rape.

[lawrocket 3]

Bullshit. Comparison valid.

The issue is whether she lacked the ability to consent. If yes, then it is rape.

Note that it is not, "Sexual contact without consent, unless the accuser put him or herself in a position wherein he/she could not consent, in which case consent shall be implied in all cases, because the accuser should have been more careful knowing that this could happen."

Nope. It's whether the person could consent. That's the end of it. A nice, easy way that avoids complications.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[AndyMan 7]

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You don't have to buy it, but it is the law.

I think you missed the point of the thread.

The fact that what the teacher did was illegal is undisputed. She did after all just spend 7 years in jail. I don't see any question or debate over whether or not what she did was abusive and wrong.

I'm not sure I understand the semantics of "how" it's wrong.

There is an interesting discussion about what constitutes consent. I think it draws paralell to issues of consent and alcohol.

The courts and society have largely agreed that a female can't consent to sex while intoxicated. I think that's a good thing. What about if it were reversed? Can a man consent to sex while drunk?

I don't think a full grown man has ever willingly engaged in sex while drunk, then claimed rape after the fact, and had the female succesfully prosecuted, yet the same thing with genders reversed happens frequently.

What happens when two people who are two drunk to consent to sex hook up. Did they both rape each other?

What is consent?

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[happythoughts 0]

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if sleeping with a drunk chick meant you risked being accused of rape

News flash, you are definitely taking that risk.

I thought you told me that everyone had tv sets now.

[Zennie 0]

What's interesting is that she's a media icon at all.. and that folks are willing to cut her slack.

What if the genders were reversed? You think people would treat him the same?

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[lawrocket 3]

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Plenty of guys have been charged and found guilty of rape for having sex with a girl who said yes when she was shit faced and changed her mind when she sobered up.

IMO, if the guy is just as shit faced, he's no more to blame then she is.

Actually, the guy is better off reporting to the police that she had sex with him and he lacked the ability to consent. Whether the perpetrator had capacity to know what's up isn't the usual standard, unless the statute says something like the accused "willfully" or "knowingly" did it Then the accused may have an argument that he was too tanked to know what he was doing..

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

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What if the genders were reversed? You think people would treat him the same?

Nope. In fact I think there was a thread about this recently and people were defending the female adult saying that it's not as damaging to a male juvenile.

Case in point. This guy is 21 now, has fathered 2 kids with her, hasn't seen her in 7 years but says he's still in love with her and wants to be with her. Nope, no emotional developmental issues there

[AndyMan 7]

Hypothetical.

I got REALLY drunk with my wife last night, and we bucked like funnies for hours on end.

I guess we raped each other?

That seems to tremendously devalue the word.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Actually, the guy is better off reporting to the police that she had sex with him and he lacked the ability to consent.

Trust me, you know I learned the "be the first to the cops" lesson.. In fact, I pretty much call them before I ask a girl out these days just to give them a heads up

[Remster 24]

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and we bucked like funnies

You're into clown fetishes?

Remster

[PhillyKev 0]

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Hypothetical.

I got REALLY drunk with my wife last night, and we bucked like funnies for hours on end.

I guess we raped each other?

That seems to tremendously devalue the word.

_Am

Yep...if the next day one of you decided that you were taken advantage of, most definitely. I don't think it devalues it at all, I think it strengthens it. You can't legally consent, then you are having sex without your consent. It's really cut and dry. If you happen to not care that you had sex with your wife when your were drunk, good for you.

[labrys 0]

how could anyone who can buck like a funny for hours be anywhere near drunk enough to lose the capacity to consent?

Owned by Remi #?

[chuckbrown 0]

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Dude, you're way off base here. Plenty of guys have been charged and found guilty of rape for having sex with a girl who said yes when she was shit faced and changed her mind when she sobered up.

In PA its rape only if YOU administered the intoxicating substance. If she gets plastered on her own, it's not rape. Sort of a stupid law, because of course you're going to get her plastered trying to score.

[AndyMan 7]

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Yep...if the next day one of you decided that you were taken advantage of, most definitely.

What we decide the next day is irrelevant. Either we were able to consent or we weren't. Our feelings the next day are irrelevant. Of all the statutes I've seen, I've never seen one that even mentions "after the fact". There's either consent, or there's not.

It does devalue the word, because we've gone from having rapists making up a small part of the population, to a place where the definition includes pretty much every married or seriously dating sexually active couple out there.

Rape is a ugly, terrible plight that needs to be wiped form the face of the earth. What I hypothetically did with my wife last night doesn't need such treatment.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.