badly behaved children - why?

[Newbie 0]

i work in education and until recently was a firm believer that it's parents and the role they play (or rather, don't play) that has a direct effect on how the children grow, develop and behave. I still hold this view.

However, when i was in one of the schools i work with recently, i saw what i would say was an example of some teaching that really wasn't great. Suddenly i thought, "are they badly behaved because the parents are so strict at home that they think they can get away with things in school, that they play up here? Are they angels at home, devils at school?". Anyway i still think it's to do with parenting, i don't know why, i don't have any kids, i guess i'm just going on my upbringing as my experience.

What do you guys think? What makes a child badly behaved?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[fudd 0]

Oversimplyfied....what make a dog behave badly?

For a child I believe it's the society around the child. The closer relationship to the child, the stronger the influence. Every child will behave bad some times. Role models and upbringing will affect how the child as an induvidual feels about his or hers actions.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[tunaplanet 0]

Children for the most part are a product of the parents in terms of behavior.

Forty-two

[CrazyIvan 0]

Some kids are just evil...I was one of them, but in my opinion parenting has to do a lot to correct such mischievous behavior, my parents are loving parents but if I crossed the line they enforced the "law", it worked, and if I was a stuborn brat, then I had a nice conversation with Mr. Belt and Mrs. Wodden Spoon

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Lindsey 0]

Nature vs. Nurture. It's an old argument, isn't it. If ya' want to pin it all on nurture, then I'd just have to say that there's a heck of a lot more to this kind of a model than parenting. Children's social lives aren't quite that narrow, imho, and other influences while maybe not as strong can influence children dramatically. Often very good parents can just not have the ability to solve all of their children's problems.

I tend to think there's a biological component in there, as well. But it's much easier to pin all responsibility on the parents....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[wmw999 2,149]

I have a friend who deals with a lot of kids in trouble -- she's a police detective who works with the schools a lot. She said that in her experience, about 20% of the time (very rough estimate), parents who seem to have all the skills (and other kids with no problems) produce kids who just don't do wall. About 20% of the time, lousy parents end up with great kids. But the other 80% of the time on each side, parents with problems are likely to produce kids with problems.

Everyone knows someone who came from a crappy background and did well. Not every kid who came from a crappy background has the same above-average intelligence, discipline, and stick-to-it-iveness that makes it likely.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[metalslug 31]

I may be the exception to the rule, but I was a very well-behaved child and yet my parents hardly ever put a hand on me to keep me that way.

I remember that, most of the time, correct behaviour wasn't just dictated to me, it was explained to me so that I knew why I was supposed to do (or not do) certain things. I think that made a big difference.

As best as my childhood memories will allow, my parents didn't seem to get angry when I misbehaved, instead they seemed to become 'sad'. I think that an angry parent is not as emotionaly significant to a child than a visibly sad/upset parent is.

I know now, in hindsight, that much of their sadness was caused by relationship problems with each other (because they eventualy divorced) but there was nothing more terrible for me than to see my parents sad and I would therefore behave like an angel to do whatever I could to make them happier, to see them smile again. I was well-behaved in school aswell, mostly so that my parents would be happy to hear good reports from my teachers.
Maybe my circumstances were unusual, but that's how it worked out for me.

[Remster 24]

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I may be the exception to the rule, but I was a very well-behaved child and yet my parents hardly ever put a hand on me to keep me that way.

Without getting into a corporal punishment debate, I dont think being strict and disciplined equates to smacking your kids.

Remster

[Lindsey 0]

Yeah....I also worked for years with children as a social worker. I agree that parents with difficulties tend to have kids with difficulties. Without decent parenting, it's hard for kids to make it. Kids need the safety, security, and guidance that parents *should* provide.

However, often parents do everything they can, and their kids have problems. It happens a lot more often than one would like to think. Those parents get fingers pointed at them from every direction, from people who can only see that parents are to blame when their children screw up. That's some heavy pressure we put on people who REALLY work hard to do right by their families. It's just not helpful imho.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[freeflybella 0]

What's even more fascinating about the Nature/Nurture discussion are the studies which show just how early the in a child's developmental stages - that the Nurture aspect applies.

There are studies now that say life long behavior patterns can be created/affected by parenting influence as early as 3 mos.

My mother is an attachment disorder therapist - and attachment disorder can start as early as birth.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[Lindsey 0]

In fact...I think that the early attachment is probably more important in many ways than the things parents do when children are older. There are also studies that dispute that (you can find a study to support just about anything). But when kids don't have that basic ability to form attachments then a basic, very vital, building block/foundation is lost. Attachment is a lot harder to learn as you grow older. But most children with behavior problems don't have attachment disorders.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[MarkM 0]

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Oversimplyfied....what make a dog behave badly?

Inconstistant rules makes a dog behave badly. I think it's the same with children. I remember when I was young my friend and I were riding in the car with my mom and I asked her if I could spend the night at my friend's place. She said no and my friend said, "ask her again". I was like, "WTF would asking her again do? She already said no." Apparently some parents will change their minds if you nag them enough, mine never would though.

But on the flip side I never had silly rules either. I had friends in their teens who couldn't go out because they had gone out the night before? What the hell kind of rule is that?

[freeflybella 0]

Very true. It's found more often in fostered and adoptive children - but again, not a common disorder.

I just think it's so incredible that behaviors can be 'formed' so early.

Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi

[nigel99 150]

Our kids are praised as being the best behaved in their schools (despite the youngest being twins) and they are brought up ALOT more firmly and consitantly than most. So I think lack of discipline/inconsistant discipline and lack of love/attention are the biggest contributers.

My wife is amazing with the kids and I don't know how she manages though - I work it's easier

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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Oversimplyfied....what make a dog behave badly?

Inconstistant rules makes a dog behave badly. I think it's the same with children. I remember when I was young my friend and I were riding in the car with my mom and I asked her if I could spend the night at my friend's place. She said no and my friend said, "ask her again". I was like, "WTF would asking her again do? She already said no." Apparently some parents will change their minds if you nag them enough, mine never would though.

But on the flip side I never had silly rules either. I had friends in their teens who couldn't go out because they had gone out the night before? What the hell kind of rule is that?

I second this notion.
I was "one of the friends" and I try to raise my child like you were.. I explain my reasons for rules, and she certainly respects them, even if she has trouble disciplining herself to follow them. She knows asking repeatedly is useless, however it seems that none of her friends get the benefit of such stability.

I think that if you respect them and their needs they will in the end return the respect... even if along the way the 'road gets bumpy'.

[rickjump1 0]

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In fact...I think that the early attachment is probably more important in many ways than the things parents do when children are older. There are also studies that dispute that (you can find a study to support just about anything). But when kids don't have that basic ability to form attachments then a basic, very vital, building block/foundation is lost. Attachment is a lot harder to learn as you grow older. But most children with behavior problems don't have attachment disorders.

linz

My oldest daughter was adopted (we brought her home 2 days old). She was a loving child, made good grades, and never had behavior problems. After high school, she met here biological mother, dropped out of college, married, divorced, and had a baby daughter we now raise. We thought we did everything right: 4H, church, everything. The second daughter (not adopted) has done everything right. If it was not a difference in genes, we missed something and wonder about the grand daughter 14 months old. She is a beautiful, happy baby just like her mother was, and we consider her a real blessing.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Lindsey 0]

Rick....from what I remember, she has a wonderful spirit. I can't imagine that's gone. Give her some time.

Peace~
Linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[rickjump1 0]

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Rick....from what I remember, she has a wonderful spirit. I can't imagine that's gone. Give her some time.

Peace~
Linz

That is all we can do. She met her biological father this summer. He had attempted to find her earlier with no success. After meeting him she lost interest. She is not living at home, not working, and refuses any counseling. She is one unhappy kid.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[Lindsey 0]

.....which reminds me of all the many, many twin studies done on one problem after another, and all the many behavioral problems that seem to have genetic predispositions... I think that blaming parents for every problem that arises with their children is a very, very simplistic way (though easy) of viewing people who live in a complex situation.....lol....I sure don't blame my parents for all of my many screw-ups....

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail