Why should people be moral?

[pajarito 0]

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I'm particularly interested in answers that are more complex than "because God commands us to".

"Because God commands us to" is a simple answer given in reference to this question as well as many others but it doesn't always hold much water with the thinking person. However, that answer, in reference to God, is really much more complicated than most think. I thought this article was very interesting regarding eithics and morality.

Ethical Relativism

[tkhayes 126]

When i am on my death bed, I want to think about all the great times I had, all the friends I made and all the places I saw, etc

Not think about all the people that I fucked over, all the things I stole, and the shit I created and all the bad things I may have done. (thanks to Gus wing for that thought)

Nothing else - money, property, ego, whatever really matters at that point.

That applies to morals, behaviors, belief structures, friendships, personalties and everything else in life.

TK

[crwmike 0]

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When i am on my death bed, I want to think about all the great times I had, all the friends I made and all the places I saw, etc

Not think about all the people that I fucked over, all the things I stole, and the shit I created and all the bad things I may have done. (thanks to Gus wing for that thought)

Nothing else - money, property, ego, whatever really matters at that point.

That applies to morals, behaviors, belief structures, friendships, personalties and everything else in life.

TK

Excellent answer. I've found most deathbed thought center around this very issue.

Michael

[rickjump1 0]

It is a lot easier dealing with moral people for the simple reason you can trust them. Remember when a hand shake or a person's word was good?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[MarkM 0]

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When i am on my death bed, I want to think about all the great times I had, all the friends I made and all the places I saw, etc

Not think about all the people that I fucked over, all the things I stole, and the shit I created and all the bad things I may have done. (thanks to Gus wing for that thought)

Nothing else - money, property, ego, whatever really matters at that point.

That applies to morals, behaviors, belief structures, friendships, personalties and everything else in life.

Damn dude, that pretty much sums it up perfectly. I have no idea if there's anything beyond death, but when I'm at the door of it, I want to look back and be satisfied with the life I lived. A big part of that includes how I treated other people and if the world was a better place because I was in it. I don't need to cure cancer, just make sure a few people here and there were really glad I was around.

[Tonto 1]

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I've had several arguments with religious people who believed that there can be no morality without God.

I guess that you're refering to religions that beleive in a God then.

There are 360 million Buddhists who make quite an effort to lead a moral life - and there's no God there to nail them if they don't.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Skyrad 0]

Aspart of a social contract, be it written (law) or unwritten(Manners) so that onecanfunction withina society. In fact soone can have a society in thefirst place. Basicly its for selfish reasons, if we work together we survive, are protected and are fed. None of this would be so easily achivable without the basic social building blocks which depend on each member of the society working for the good of the society which is dependent on people being and having morals. Morals are also very culturaly dependent.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[wmw999 2,121]

In a very primitive way, morality is often just the codification of practices that allow one to exist in a society, or with the land, on a longer-term basis.

If you fuck people over they don't deal with you any more, or they hurt you. If you fuck the land over, it stops working. A lot of morality is ways to avoid those things happening, or to have society or the land (or whatver) be better for your involvement, rather than worse.

But I also like the part about being able to go to sleep at night.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[crwmike 0]

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Aspart of a social contract, be it written (law) or unwritten(Manners) so that onecanfunction withina society. In fact soone can have a society in thefirst place. Basicly its for selfish reasons, if we work together we survive, are protected and are fed. None of this would be so easily achivable without the basic social building blocks which depend on each member of the society working for the good of the society which is dependent on people being and having morals. Morals are also very culturaly dependent.

Agree in general, but viewing manners as a manifestation of morality is way off base ...but then it's a common mistake. Many (most?) people view personality as a manifestation of character. Indeed, people make decisions for 'life' partners based on ritualistic mannerisms and social pleasantries.

Good manners and charm are poor barometers of character and integrity.

Michael

[Newbie 0]

i think the answer to this question is contained within the answer to the following question:

"Why should people be immoral?"

edited for tipoz

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Guest]

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I find it interesting that several have stated religion or God as the reason to be moral and not respect for other people. I guess religion does still have some usefulness if it's the only thing keeping people from mistreating others.

I've had several arguments with religious people who believed that there can be no morality without God.

Blues,
Dave

I tend to agree. In the absence of some kind of immutable, universal code of conduct that all members of a society can agree upon, "Do your own thing, and to hell with everyone else" becomes the standard.

This is detrimental.

An excellent example is Iraq, where corruption is a way of life. People there only care about their clan or tribe, and nothing else. Because of their culture, they can't see the benefit of helping total strangers for the common good. They can't see that putting controls on corrupt behavior benefits everyone.

Our society is headed that way, because the old controls that kept selfish corruption in check have been swept away. Wishful thinking won't get people to do what they don't want to do. It is done either by force, or by persuading people that they will have greater benefit via delayed gratification.

There is nothing wrong with a 'higher power' providing the ultimate source of that authority which people see as the true source of law.

Which is why the 'rule of man' only goes so far. Try to keep up with me here.

"are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The Document is saying that some rights are granted to humans by the Almighty himself, and can never be revoked.

Take Him out of the equation, and where do those rights come from? The government? Ha. From our fellow citizens? Nope.

I find it worrisome that those who wish to destroy religion don't realize the extent to which it keeps anarchy at bay. One could however assume that anarchy is the desired outcome...

The nation-state is built on several pillars, and they're shaking.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 2,400]

>An excellent example is Iraq, where corruption is a way of life.

You are honestly going to use a predominantly Muslim country as an example of how a non-religious society has fewer morals than we do??? Are Islamic extremists more peaceful/helpful/moral than their more secular counterparts?

[livendive 8]

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In the absence of some kind of immutable, universal code of conduct that all members of a society can agree upon, "Do your own thing, and to hell with everyone else" becomes the standard.

How do you figure? And why does that immutable, universal code of conduct have to be theistic in nature. I'm an atheist, yet I still adhere to a code of conduct and do not take a "to hell with everyone else" approach to morality.

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Which is why the 'rule of man' only goes so far. Try to keep up with me here.

"are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The Document is saying that some rights are granted to humans by the Almighty himself, and can never be revoked.

Take Him out of the equation, and where do those rights come from? The government? Ha. From our fellow citizens? Nope.

Who says someone needs to grant us those rights? Inalienable simply means no one can revoke those rights.

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I find it worrisome that those who wish to destroy religion don't realize the extent to which it keeps anarchy at bay. One could however assume that anarchy is the desired outcome...

a) I do not know any person who wishes to "destroy religion"
b) I am not convinced that religion makes anyone more moral than they would otherwise be. It's possible that some people would be less moral without a threat of eternal damnation, but that says more about their character than it does about the value of religion.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[kallend 1,623]

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I tend to agree. In the absence of some kind of immutable, universal code of conduct that all members of a society can agree upon, "Do your own thing, and to hell with everyone else" becomes the standard.

That does not follow at all. A moral code is just a form of cooperative behavior that can be developed by natural selection.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdweller 0]

Because it's in our own self-interest. Morality is just one example of cooperation with the rest of society.


In the broadest sense, it is described by game theory.
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What a noble idea, economically speaking of course.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[Fast 0]

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I find it worrisome that those who wish to destroy religion don't realize the extent to which it keeps anarchy at bay. One could however assume that anarchy is the desired outcome...

I agree that some people out there are very anti-religion and would love to see it go away. That being said, it seems to me that a lot of people who do not belive in any given religion do so because they feel that it is _only_ to keep anarchy at bay and does not have any real substance backing it.


Regarding the original topic of this thread I think you are somewhat right in your assesment that it is based on people wanting to not go extinct. How often do people adress the topic of how things will be for "your children." It is a part of our existance to want to stay in exisance (There by god or nature whatever) and that is part of the morality. We ought to be moral because it is a way to help ensure our survival. It helps life to be "better" for everyone.

Your question doesn't really ask what is moral, where morality comes from, or who is right when it comes to what is considred moral so I won't go there.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[JustRelax 0]

I'l have a go at the God perspective, since I beleive in God.

As I look to Good in a faith way I feel more the gift of everything. I think this is the reason, though faith never really knows for sure.

This means the gifness feeling hightens my feeling of treasuring life and people and things in the world. It makes me think I want to respect it. There lies the reason why people should be moral - its a response to the giftness of things - being moral respects the position of the other in relation to myself.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.