Gun QUestion for the Yanks...

[Ripple 0]

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I don't want our gun laws to change, neither does Mr2, and probably neither does Skyrad, I'm not sure about MikeD, but I'd hazard a guess that he does not need the extra overtime that free gun ownership might bring.

Ooooo, I don't either.

Next Mood Swing: 6 minutes

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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"What about the survey that found people six times more likely to be the victim of violent crime in London versus New York City?"

Hearsay, and urban myth until you can actually point people to a source for the survey.

It's not myth. In fact, I think JohnRich linked to it once. I've lost track. I think it was a study done by a European country, like Denmark or something.

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We have been driving on the left hand side of the road since an act of parliament in 1772, perhaps you'd like us to change that as well?

When you look around the world and see only two places where they drive on the left, yeah, it makes sense to me that things would be a lot easier in general if you'd give up the intransigence and just drive on the side everyone else does. Think about it: you'd have to see fewer traffic accidents and pedestrians run down, if all tourists to UK encountered cars coming from the left instead of the right as they cross streets; you'd have fewer cars turning and then entering the wrong lane to collide with oncoming traffic; car manufacturers could all be tooled the same way...

Make a legitimate argument for keeping on driving on the left, please. I'd like to see what you brits think about it, and how you justify it.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[Botellines 0]

They would have to change all the signs and all the streets to acomodate tourists. That is way too expensive just so a tourist doesn´t end up under a bus.
When i was living there, there was only two times i almost got run over. The third time i learned to look both ways before crossing the street.
Besides, it is fun to drive in the other side of the road.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Only twice, huh?

When I was there, it never came near to happening... but then I wasn't advocating for myself, I was advocating for morons. Guess I should give up doing that.

Oh, and the expense is the reason not to do it? I suppose that switching to the Euro is going to be cheap for them, huh? Reoutfitting and retooling mints, and whatnot? How many lives is switching to the Euro going to save?

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"It's not myth."

Point being, until you replicate the link that John posted, thats exactly what it is, myth and hearsay, essentially an unsubstantiated comment.

"Make a legitimate argument for keeping on driving on the left, please. I'd like to see what you brits think about it, and how you justify it. "

It works, we have been doing it for longer than most countries have had roads, let alone laws to manage them safely, and we have no intention of changing it.

"Think about it: you'd have to see fewer traffic accidents and pedestrians run down, "
Think about managing the change, the rebuilding of intersections pedestrian crossings, the re-education of generations of drivers and pedestrians, the change to our road traffic laws, the hazards of suddenly having millions of vehicles that are configured for RH drivers. I'd say the long term benefits (what exactly are they again?) would pale to insignificance at the carnage caused by people readjusting.

See, what works in one country, is not necessarily applicable to other places....which was the whole point of raising it as an analogy
"When you look around the world and see only two places where they drive on the left,"

There are 74 countries that drive on the left, when looking around the world, you really ought to look in more detail, or at least look with your eyes open.
Here's the list, just so you can go look them up.
Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Bangladesh
Barbados
Bermuda
Bhutan
Botswana
Brunei
Cayman Islands
Christmas Island (Australia)
Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australia)
Cook Islands
Cyprus
Dominica
East Timor
Falkland Islands
Fiji
Grenada
Guernsey (Channel Islands)
Guyana
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Ireland
Isle of Man
Jamaica
Japan
Jersey (Channel Islands)
Kenya
Kiribati
Lesotho
Macau
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mauritius
Montserrat
Mozambique
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
New Zealand
Niue
Norfolk Island (Australia)
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Pitcairn Islands (Britain)
Saint Helena
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Seychelles
Singapore
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Suriname
Swaziland
Tanzania
Thailand
Tokelau (New Zealand)
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Kingdom
Virgin Islands (British)
Virgin Islands (US)
Zambia
Zimbabwe

There's a heap of discussion at this site.
http://www.brianlucas.ca/roadside/#listofcountries

Apparently you guys drove on the correct side of the road then changed it around the late 1700s, early 1800s.

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He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Botellines 0]

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Only twice, huh?

When I was there, it never came near to happening...

But that is only because you are very smart, clever, and streetwise. You have proven your maturity level with your posts in the lucky kid thread

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but then I wasn't advocating for myself, I was advocating for morons. Guess I should give up doing that.

Peacefull Jeffrey, you are amusing. Only a moron would call someone who doesn´t know a moron. and you don´t know me. "La ignorancia es atrevida" (ask Juanesky to translate it for you)

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Oh, and the expense is the reason not to do it? I suppose that switching to the Euro is going to be cheap for them, huh? Reoutfitting and retooling mints, and whatnot?

Probably not, my friend. but rest assured that if they finally do it, they will outweight the consequences before, and the advantages will certainly make up for the disadvantages

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How many lives is switching to the Euro going to save?

Peacefull Jeffrey, do not worry about that. It would only save moron´s lifes. By the way, you, war supporter, since when do you have human life in such a high regard?

You are now certainly ahead in the "most ridiculous post" contest. Keep up the good work.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

Reads like an encyclopedic list of the countries of the world that the British Empire (tm) has colonized, raped, and fucked over "royally" since the days of yore.

So no wonder they drive on the wrong fucking side of the road.

-

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Here's the list, just so you can go look them up.
Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Bangladesh
Barbados
Bermuda
Bhutan
Botswana
Brunei
Cayman Islands
Christmas Island (Australia)
Cocos (Keeling) Islands (Australia)
Cook Islands
Cyprus
Dominica
East Timor
Falkland Islands
Fiji
Grenada
Guernsey (Channel Islands)
Guyana
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Ireland
Isle of Man
Jamaica
Japan
Jersey (Channel Islands)
Kenya
Kiribati
Lesotho
Macau
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mauritius
Montserrat
Mozambique
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
New Zealand
Niue
Norfolk Island (Australia)
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Pitcairn Islands (Britain)
Saint Helena
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Seychelles
Singapore
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Suriname
Swaziland
Tanzania
Thailand
Tokelau (New Zealand)
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Turks and Caicos Islands
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Kingdom
Virgin Islands (British)
Virgin Islands (US)
Zambia
Zimbabwe

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

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[kelpdiver 2]

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Reads like an encyclopedic list of the countries of the world that the British Empire (tm) has colonized, raped, and fucked over "royally" since the days of yore.

Well, that's one way to conceed that the 2 countries fact was a bit off. But it should be no surprise that the left hand practice was adopted through the British Empire which lasted well past the arrival of the car.

It is a problem to people on the 'right' side of the world. Not too long ago we had a motorcyclist killed in these parts by a visiting Brit. How do you punish for an event like that? She certainly didn't intend to do it, yet there is still a dead person.

As for the other debate - violent crime in England - my recollection is that a very high number of citizens had been victims of crime, but most were not violent ones. It was still a shockingly high number, and the source was one of the British papers surveying it's readers.

I think it's more noteworthy to read that some of the bobbies are asking to carry now.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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I think it's more noteworthy to read that some of the bobbies are asking to carry now.

That might be noteworthy if it were NEWS. British cops have been carrying for well near a decade now. I have a newspaper clipping at home from Newsda (Long Island, NY) unfortunately it's undated, but it's from before I moved in '97, that says, "London Police to Wear Guns." In the article is a police chief quoted as saying, "We have to police the real world."

Bear in mind, this was before the violent crime explosion that coincides with the ban on handguns that came about in 1997. (The clipping is probably from '95 or so, I think.) The police in Britain were even then realizing that shit was getting out of control, and the LONG DEAR tradition of the "unarmed bobby" had to be abandoned.

According to stuff I've read, LOTS of British police carry guns now, OPENLY. And when I was there studying in 1992, some British students I lived with told me that lots of British cops carried CONCEALED, giving the impression that they were not armed, but that was only an illusion.

So the idea that people don't need guns for defense in Britain is given lie to by the fact that apparently the cops don't feel that way. The British people like to delude themselves into thinking that their society is soooo polite that cops can effectively do their jobs without arms. It's a myth.

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-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[mr2mk1g 10]

Cops are not armed here. That is a fact. We have armed response units in a division of the police force called SO19. They are the only armed police in this country. They are not regular beat cops. Regular beat cops are not armed. Never. Cops do not carry concealed weapons. Armed response units look very much like swat teams and are not going to be mistaken for regular cops. They wear a totally different uniform for a start. In our latest set of figures, Britain has a total of 6262 Authorised Firearms Officers NATIONALLY!

[juanesky 0]

And apparently blindness is an issue for you. Three times eh? I guess another Darwin award has been avoided.

Jeffrey, he is basically calling you an ignorant moron. It seems that there are not many mirrors available in that part of the world.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Cops are not armed here. That is a fact. We have armed response units in a division of the police force called SO19. They are the only armed police in this country. They are not regular beat cops. Regular beat cops are not armed. Never. Cops do not carry concealed weapons. Armed response units look very much like swat teams and are not going to be mistaken for regular cops. They wear a totally different uniform for a start. In our latest set of figures, Britain has a total of 6262 Authorised Firearms Officers NATIONALLY!

I guess all the articles I've read over the last, say, nine years have been utterly misleading, then.

I'll look for the disproof of your statement later, but right now I'm headed out to play some disc golf.

Blue skies,
-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Peacefull Jeffrey, do not worry about that. It would only save moron´s lifes. By the way, you, war supporter, since when do you have human life in such a high regard?

Supporting war when it is righteous means one can't possibly have regard for human life?

I guess we should never have bailed Europe's ass out in WWII then, since all war and all killing is bad, even if it would save lots of innocent lives.

Will we Americans ever learn?

You make a lot of comments about my maturity level, but do you stop to realize that your sarcastic responses put you at a level no higher? One would think that if you were so much more mature than I am, you'd remain above it.

-

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Reads like an encyclopedic list of the countries of the world that the British Empire (tm) has colonized, raped, and fucked over "royally" since the days of yore."

Somebody else said it, but yeah thats one way to admit your ignorance of the world outside your own frontiers, its a wee bit more than 2 countries would have been the point.
'Raped and fucked over', well quite possibly, I'm not going to deny that, but glancing down the list I see countries that have never been part of the British Empire.

I also see some very successful countries, taking their place on the world stage, a role that without British intervention they might not have ascended to.
I also see countries that have fallen apart since they achieved independence from the commonwealth and empire.
Can you see those countries listed here?

And the countries listed here are not alone in demonstrating a British influence. I'm not just talking about selection of which side of the road to drive on, but also in models for government structure, democracy, and many modern societal principles.

Sound familiar?

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"I guess all the articles I've read over the last, say, nine years have been utterly misleading, then."

I don't really know, but I'd say your interpretation of them is probably way off the mark.

"I'll look for the disproof of your statement later, "

Please, oh please, go and find the proof that our police force widely carry firearms, outside those authorised to do so by SO19.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[Botellines 0]

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Supporting war when it is righteous means one can't possibly have regard for human life?

This war wasn´t righteous, it is at best questionable. well over 8000 casualties on collateral damage is having VERY little regard for human life. Plust acts of theft on the population, torture, murder, etc, etc.

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I guess we should never have bailed Europe's ass out in WWII then, since all war and all killing is bad, even if it would save lots of innocent lives.

Will we Americans ever learn?

America entered WW2 when they got hold of secret information that Hitler was plotting against the US. Before, the US was quite hesitant to get involved. Had Hitler not plotted to invade the US i am not so sure you guys would have come to help. We give the benefit of the doubt though and we are generally thankful for that, but don´t make it look like it was only charity because it wasn´t. But that was a righteous war, though. It is completely different.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/enigma_01.shtml

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You make a lot of comments about my maturity level, but do you stop to realize that your sarcastic responses put you at a level no higher? One would think that if you were so much more mature than I am, you'd remain above it.

It was you who started talking about my maturity level first. So if you verbally attack one person, you can expect the other to either attack you back or defend himself. But you are right, i can lower my maturity level when circumstances require it to adapt to someone else´s maturity level.

[Botellines 0]

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Jeffrey, he is basically calling you an ignorant moron.

To peacefulljeffrey
Actually "la ignorancia es atrevida" means literally "ignorance is daring". So Peacefull Jeffrey, i was basically saying you where ignorant about the matter under discussion yet you insisted about you being right. The moron part was exclusively Juanesky´s idea who is lately quite fond of personal attacks.

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It seems that there are not many mirrors available in that part of the world.

To Juanesky
I would say as many as Spanish-English dictionaries in your city.

edited for clarity

[Skyrad 0]

Nope! Happy with the law just as it is. Would like to see enforcement improved thats all.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

***According to stuff I've read, LOTS of British police carry guns now, OPENLY. And when I was there studying in 1992, some British students I lived with told me that lots of British cops carried CONCEALED, giving the impression that they were not armed, but that was only an illusion.***

Its true, also its a little known fact that their heads go right up to the top of their hats but they don't take them off in public because that would spoil yet another illusion!

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[juanesky 0]

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Jeffrey, he is basically calling you an ignorant moron.

To peacefulljeffrey
Actually "la ignorancia es atrevida" means literally "ignorance is daring". So Peacefull Jeffrey, i was basically saying you where ignorant about the matter under discussion yet you insisted about you being right. The moron part was exclusively Juanesky´s idea who is lately quite fond of personal attacks.

[juanesky 0]

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I guess we should never have bailed Europe's ass out in WWII then, since all war and all killing is bad, even if it would save lots of innocent lives.

Will we Americans ever learn?

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America entered WW2 when they got hold of secret information that Hitler was plotting against the US. Before, the US was quite hesitant to get involved. Had Hitler not plotted to invade the US i am not so sure you guys would have come to help. We give the benefit of the doubt though and we are generally thankful for that, but don´t make it look like it was only charity because it wasn´t. But that was a righteous war, though. It is completely different.

Oh well, too bad some of the poster do not know the little fact that on December 11, 1941, at 9:30 am Chief of the European Division of the State Department, Mr. Ray Atherton received a note from the German Government in which declares the war on US. So much for spin history.

Blindness apparently is an issue to way too many people on that side of the pond.

Edited to ad : that link is useless to prove your factless statement.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[piisfish 135]

I'd leave my guns at the arsenal, as required by Swiss Army rules...
And get them back when I go back to Switzerland.

Oh, Peacefuljeffrey, what do you prefer driving the british side or the french side ??

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[billvon 2,434]

>Peacefull Jeffrey, you are amusing. Only a moron would call
>someone who doesn´t know a moron. and you don´t know me.

Your one warning. No personal attacks, even if you really, really think it's appropriate.

[crozby 0]

Jeffrey if you were here as a student you should know that the big difference between the US and UK is binge drinking.

I just came back from Perris which, apart from the DZ has about 1 shitty bar, inside a restaurant, which is not even open past 9 during week days. Whereas, in the UK every village, town & city has bars. The city of Salisbury has a population of 30-50 thousand and boasts 50 bars within half a mile of the city centre.

Binge drinking is a real problem here amongst the 17-30 year olds. Friday and Saturday nights are seen as the nights to get completely trashed after a hard weeks work, and all the bars in all the towns and cities get packed with drunk people.

Associated with this is an ever increasing amount of drunken violence which is caused purely by the binge drinking. Occasionally weapons are used, mainly knives, but because the vast majority of people don't leave their homes with a drunken fight in mind they are unarmed and its mostly kicking, punching and hair pulling that goes on at closing time, although glassing is on the increase.

There is no doubt in my mind that if these same people were carrying guns there would be absolute carnage every weekend. They are not killers when sobre, but after their 8th Vodka Redbull who knows what they'll think makes sense in the moment.

We just wouldn't survive adding guns to the current drinking culture here.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Will we Americans ever learn?

America entered WW2 when they got hold of secret information that Hitler was plotting against the US. Before, the US was quite hesitant to get involved.