PhillyKev 0 #1 June 21, 2004 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040621/ts_nm/britain_iran_seizure_dc So, how long until we go to war with Iran? Thinks seem to be heating up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #2 June 21, 2004 That would be scary. THe Iranian military is quite capable and they have been hiding some stuff with their nukes. The interesting thing here is the vast opposition the ruling Islamic mullahs are facing internally. The reformers there are very pro-western. Interesting. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #3 June 21, 2004 QuoteThe interesting thing here is the vast opposition the ruling Islamic mullahs are facing internally. The reformers there are very pro-western. Interesting. Yeah, I'm sure our troops would be greeted with flowers and the thanks of the Iranian people. We could invade with a couple hundred thousands troops and execute regime change in a couple months. It will be easy.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #4 June 21, 2004 Sounds like they've pinched three rigid raiders or something of that ilk, especially as the three appear to have had a sum total of 5 crewmembers between the 3 boats. I don't know if I'd describe them as "vessels" as the article does. It later describes them as "boats" which would befit their size a little more. Harbour patrol probably, Navy perhaps, but warships… pfft!? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #5 June 21, 2004 QuoteThe interesting thing here is the vast opposition the ruling Islamic mullahs are facing internally. The reformers there are very pro-western. Interesting. I think if we ease off Iran, they will reform themselves over the next 20 years. If we push them (or, god forbid, invade) I'd guess we'll see them reverting into a hard core theocracy. The reformers there are our friends--but they don't want anyone saying that, and the more we get close (positive or negative) the worse it is for the pace of reform there, in general. I'd say Iran is best approached in a very hands off fashion, at the moment.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #6 June 21, 2004 Perhaps they are SBU personnel...Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #7 June 21, 2004 Tom, I totally agree here - for the moment. I think we screwed the pooch with Iran starting with Eisenhower's support of Shah Pahlavi. We kept supporting the S.O.B. until the populace became fed up and threw his sorry ass out. All in the name of containment/the Cold War/keeping Iran out of the Soviet SOI (Sphere of Influence). I think the feelings that caused the Shah to be overthrown pretty much resonate with the feelings of people wanting US-style freedom everywhere. However, if they develop nukes and show any inkling of handing them over to AQ, they must be confronted/stopped - militarily if necessary. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikkey 0 #8 June 22, 2004 QuoteHowever, if they develop nukes and show any inkling of handing them over to AQ, they must be confronted/stopped - militarily if necessary. But who is going to provide the intelligence about this? The CIA? Based on the experience in Iraq, it might be very difficult to assess the facts...--------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #9 June 22, 2004 It’s been on the evening news... there were 3 patrol boats and they showed footage of similar boats. They're open motorboats, maybe 20ft long, no fixed weapons, just a hull and a big motor. There were 8 navy personnel on board delivering the boats to the Iraqi's who they'd been training to carry out stop and search missions on suspected smugglers. No official word on why they were where they were, its just a suspected map reading error. Seems a pretty big error to make mind given the fact that all they had to do was not go past a big river entrance. Political opinion is that this will all be sorted in a day or two and that Iran is just as eager to defuse the situation as anyone. The general consensus is that Iran is sending a firm message to the coalition that they have interests in the area and that we should not forget that when sorting out the running of the waterway. I just wonder if they might use this as some kind of excuse though given that there are rumblings that they may want to invade Iraq in the power vacuum after the handover… if they really are that completely insane of course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #10 June 22, 2004 Quote… if they really are that completely insane of course. Like the people who are there now were not insane to invade BEFORE the power vacuum? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #11 June 22, 2004 It's just that now they'd risk the wrath of the US/UK and possably even the UN et al. Before we'd have probably stayed the hell out of it... now it would kinda be our fault and we'd already have military units in the combat zone possably getting shot at. It would be a lot more dificult for us to stay out of any shooting match... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #12 June 22, 2004 I don't agree. Iran could invade on the grounds that they could be under attack by Iraq in the future. Kind of a pre emptive war? To prevent a later war? Does that make sense? After all, Iraq has more of a history of giving them a hard time than say... Kuwait? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 June 22, 2004 Of course, those reasons makes perfect sense. I'm not sure what you don't agree with though. I'm not saying that they wouldn't be able to cite cause for going to war... just that to invade would be to draw down upon them the might of several western armies... That seems dumb to me, regardless of what their reasons are for going to war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #14 June 22, 2004 "Kind of a pre emptive war? To prevent a later war? Does that make sense?" Makes no sense to me, Tonto, but I hear what you're saying.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #15 June 22, 2004 Quotethe might of several western armies... I think the might of these western armies may be getting a little tired fighting one war that lasted about 9 days but has been dragging on a bit since then. Personally, I don't think Iran will invade Iraq. I think they'll give the UK their boats and men back too - but with a warning that if you're going to play boy scout and run about like you own the place - you'd better be reading your map when you do it. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheAnvil 0 #17 June 22, 2004 Nuke testing is a bit harder to hide than bio/chem warfare testing. And we've got a whole lot more experience detecting it. Good point, though I believe that no intelligence is 100%. Vinny the Anvil Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL JACKASS POWER!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #18 June 22, 2004 Coming Soon to a Theater Near You: WORLD WAR 3: The Movie! This is some scary shit... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #19 June 22, 2004 Iran has a very capable army and the people have proven that they will fight to the death if there is the threat of invasion or losing there home land. This was proven during the Iran and Iraq war. Offcourse there is no single military in the world that could take on the US and win. That being said I agree with Tom. There is many problems involved with Iran . There is always roomers of deals being made with the current government behind the curtains (so to speak). I actually know of people how would export merchandize to Germany change boxes then bring them to the US. The current government is interested in filling there pockets and that is all they care about. All the bull shit they put on TV all there religious blab is just that blab and nothing else. They speak to the weak minded and poor who are pissed and are looking for someone to blame not realizing that the ones speaking to them are the ones to blame. If there was a threat of a US invasion it would unite every one with the government no matter how much they hate each other. When there is a foreign force threatening your home you unit and put your differences aside to deal with the problem at hand.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #20 June 22, 2004 Just a couple of things I wanted to throw in... QuoteIran has a very capable army and the people have proven that they will fight to the death if there is the threat of invasion or losing there home land. This was proven during the Iran and Iraq war. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Iran lost that one. (losing the Al Faw peninsula in the process). It proved that Iran had enough indoctrinatable young men (sp?) to form human waves and get wiped out, but not a lot more. Quote If there was a threat of a US invasion it would unite every one with the government no matter how much they hate each other. When there is a foreign force threatening your home you unit and put your differences aside to deal with the problem at hand. Fair enough, but relax everyone - I really don't see that coming!! As for the 8 guys, they looked ok on TV and the Iranian government has said that if they had no 'bad intentions' (sic) that they would be released. As for the navigation... this is the same Corps which 'invaded' Spain a couple of years ago while trying to land a rigid raider boat in Gibraltar!! This should not be such a big surprise...*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #21 June 22, 2004 No bubbles here to burst. Iran has the strongest army in the Middle East. If you are comparing it too the US army yes it is not a match but I figured we all already new that. But as for its neighbors could you name what countries have Mig-29 Submarines and the capability to make there own weapons including tanks. What country in the middles east do you think has the strongest army on its own?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #22 June 22, 2004 Quote But as for its neighbors could you name what countries have Mig-29 Submarines True - not one that I can think of... since the Mig 29 is a fighter aircraft...! (Sorry - couldn't resist that one!) Quote and the capability to make there own weapons including tanks. You mean apart from the Israelis with their enormously capable 'Merkava' battle tank? Quote What country in the middles east do you think has the strongest army on its own? Honest professional opinion? (I am in the UK Army in case you did not know) I would go with Israel first - smallish but very capable, followed probably by Egypt. The Saudis are also pretty well equipped, and the Omanis are VERY well trained (we did it!) IMHO the Iranian army might be fairly well equipped but lacks discipline and is insufficiently well trained at the lower levels (platoon / squad etc) to think and act independently - hence the 'human wave' tacticss. I would be interested to hear from anyone who disagrees?*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #23 June 22, 2004 The Mig 29 is a Multi roll fighter-It is capable of caring out air-to-ground missions. I am sorry your right but I always look at the Israeli army as an extension of the US army for obvious reasons. Iran is very well equipped and you’re forgetting 8 years of experience fighting Iraq who at that time was supported by every one. Hopefully we will never have to find outI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #24 June 22, 2004 QuoteHopefully we will never have to find out Amen to that!! *************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunaplanet 0 #25 June 22, 2004 QuoteWhat country in the middles east do you think has the strongest army on its own? Most military experts agree Israel has hands down the strongest army out of the Middle East. I actually agree with this. Forty-two Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
