quade 3 #1 June 3, 2004 http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/02/us.military.iraq.ap/index.html When a person has -already- served their time. Talk about sticking it to the all volunteer service. Ouch.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #2 June 3, 2004 Stop loss has always been a fact of life for us service members. the one thing that sucks about it is our re-enlistment bonuses. My rates are from 35,000 to 40,000 depending on the exact date. Stop loss means they don't need to pay you that._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #3 June 3, 2004 trolling trolling trolling..... not necessarily you, but certainly in the way these articles fail to mention all the facts, in order to raise nonexistant issues to the general public's eye what this and every other article I’ve read about stop loss recently, completely neglect to mention, is that the majority of these soldiers have NOT fulfilled the contract they signed when they enlisted. standard enlistment is 4 years active, 4 years inactive during which time you can be recalled to serve the needs of the army.. so very few soldiers who were 'scheduled' to get out are actually been held past their contracts..only those who have already served for 8 years or more, who are generally in leadership positions and so are fully aware of the necessity of their remaining in service until the current conflict is over.. its still completely volunteer, no matter how the media attempts to misrepresent it...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #4 June 3, 2004 It's not conscription and is still a volunteer army. They volunteered for a very specific set of rules. Those rules include stop-loss. They volunteered to be bound by stop-loss rules. They cannot now complain that they are bound by a rule they volunteered to follow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #5 June 3, 2004 Quotetrolling trolling trolling..... not necessarily you, but certainly in the way these articles fail to mention all the facts, in order to raise nonexistant issues to the general public's eye what this and every other article I’ve read about stop loss recently, completely neglect to mention, is that the majority of these soldiers have NOT fulfilled the contract they signed when they enlisted. standard enlistment is 4 years active, 4 years inactive during which time you can be recalled to serve the needs of the army.. so very few soldiers who were 'scheduled' to get out are actually been held past their contracts..only those who have already served for 8 years or more, who are generally in leadership positions and so are fully aware of the necessity of their remaining in service until the current conflict is over.. its still completely volunteer, no matter how the media attempts to misrepresent it... You contradict yourself: "completely volunteer" means no one there involuntarily, not "very few soldiers who were 'scheduled' to get out". There IS a difference between none and very few.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seekfun 0 #6 June 3, 2004 Quote You contradict yourself: "completely volunteer" means no one there involuntarily, not "very few soldiers who were 'scheduled' to get out". No contradiction here: Those who enlist sign a contract that includes a provision for stop-loss. It's a facet of military life they are argreeing to be bound by. If they agree to be bound by stop-loss when they volunteer, they are volunteering to be held on file if necessary. blues, topher "...there is a there out there..." - Tom Robbins Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #7 June 3, 2004 Quotestandard enlistment is 4 years active, 4 years inactive during which time you can be recalled to serve the needs of the army.. Isn't it even if you enlist for 2 years active it's 6 inactive? I seem to remember that it was an 8 year enlistment, all told, no matter how long it was for active duty. Very few people read it, but the enlistment papers cover all this stuff. IMO, you don't get to bitch about a contract you signed just because you didn't read it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #8 June 3, 2004 QuoteIMO, you don't get to bitch about a contract you signed just because you didn't read it. Sure you do! It's the American way! If people didn't bitch about contracts after they were signed we'd have quite a few unemployed lawyers. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #9 June 3, 2004 QuoteIMO, you don't get to bitch about a contract you signed just because you didn't read it. It's not just your opinion - it's the law. If you signed a bit of paper with writing on it, you're deamed to have read every bit of writing on that page. If you sign something that refers to standard terms and conditions and those conditions are available on request or even just stuck up on a big sign. Guess what. You agreed to them. You don't get to bitch about something you agreed to. You don't get to un-volunteer yourself. Thus they're still volunteers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdhill 0 #10 June 3, 2004 Everyone who enlists, or gets commissioned for that mater, has an 8 year Military Service Obligation, or MSO... It can be served in just about any mix of active or reserve status... but in the end it is 8 years minimum. JAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seekfun 0 #11 June 3, 2004 Phillykev, You are right about the 8 year obligation. Anyone enlisting for service, active or reserve, signs an 8 year obligation. And, all contracts include the provision for stop-loss even if you are beyond your 8 years. An important note for the general audience about stop-loss: The government does not keep everyone beyond their separation dates when instituting stop loss. They target occupational specialties based on need. - topher "...there is a there out there..." - Tom Robbins Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #12 June 3, 2004 So when you buy a car and sign all the little x's - do you drive it home and think, gee, I wonder if I should make the payments? It is in the papers - it is in black and white - what's the problem - or do we just need something to bash the military for? oH - YEAH - I forgot - if the issue is raised and enlistment goes down because of it, the left can pat themselves on the back for proving in thier minds that there is no support for the war.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #13 June 3, 2004 It amazes me when people get annoyed that I read every word of a document that they give me to sign. I must be one of the few people to do it. Even in the Drs. office, they always give you a synopsis of what each section "means" and then tell you to initial it. Then they get perturbed when I actually read it first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seekfun 0 #14 June 3, 2004 PhillyKev, You raise an interesting point. We live in a world that requires contracts but doesn't allow the time for them. Umph... topher "...there is a there out there..." - Tom Robbins Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #15 June 3, 2004 It was a half hour after closing at the Ford dealership when I finally got to the Finance and Insurance people when I was buying my truck. That financing contract cost her about an hour of her time as I read it word for word, line item by line item. She was not happy. I did the same for my Navy contract. I'm aware of my eight years and stop-loss. But, there aren't any person or organization that's going to make me feel bad about complaining about profit loss._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seekfun 0 #16 June 3, 2004 nanook, What happens if you sign a reenlistment right now? If you reenlist instead of staying in simply because of stop-loss, can't you get your bonus? You'll have to obliserv to get your bonus anyway. And, if you're in the proper zone (A/B???) and want the money, reenlist. - topher "...there is a there out there..." - Tom Robbins Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #17 June 3, 2004 You are exactly right. You have to beat the stop-loss; re-enlist before it is put in effect. They usually don't get it to you in time though. And, I think there's a certain amount of time you can re-elist early._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #18 June 3, 2004 QuoteYou contradict yourself: "completely volunteer" means no one there involuntarily, not "very few soldiers who were 'scheduled' to get out". There IS a difference between none and very few. as mentioned, if you signed the contract you 'completely volunteered' for this...wither you planned/expected certain clauses to ever be applied to you is irrelevant, you accepted those conditions on enlistment. no contradiction at all.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #19 June 3, 2004 I'm still pretty sure it would suck to think you're getting out before getting shipped over only to be told -- nope.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #20 June 3, 2004 oh I agree it absolutely sucks... i know soldiers going on their second year of stop loss as they are in critical specialties in deployed units, it can certainly affect your motivation..but it isnt as if its something they didnt agree too..____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #21 June 4, 2004 I did 6 and got out, but wasn't on inactive reserves for the full 2 (to make it 8) because the delayed enlistment counts towards the 8 I knew the exact date I would go over 8. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #22 June 4, 2004 technically your delayed enlistment counts as 'inactive reserve' as they could have called you early if necessary... my 8 passed last year and i know i personally avoided recall (i know of 2 O6's who seriously suggested it) because i was still working in the program as a field engineer and would be involved at any rate......____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
